769 replies to this topic

[Waladil]

Yet Another LRMs Are OP Thread:
(I bet you thought it was weird spam at first, didn't ya?)

So... LRMs. In the current meta, they're OP. Pretty obscenely so. To the point where I (as an Awesome boating LRMs) did 1,200 damage in a single match. Let's go ahead and let that number sink in. 1,200 damage.

Should we take a moment and make that number more relatable? An Atlas is the most heavily protected 'Mech in the game, and indeed one of the toughest 'Mechs, period. A fully armored Atlas has about 930 armor and internal structure points. So in that game I did enough damage to COMPLETELY OBLITERATE the biggest 'Mech around. Not just kill the pilot, not just core out his engine: Enough damage to destroy every point of every component of every section of his 'Mech. And that would only represent 3/4ths of my damage output.

THAT is OP.

A number of people have suggested cutting LRM damage back to a value of 1. To me, that seems reasonable. Doing 600 damage in a match is a very good run, but it's not unheard of.

[LtPoncho]

Dear Marik,

Please continue your sound tactics. Seems legit to us. We will continue to accept your reorders on LRMs.

Thankfully yours,
Coventry Metal Works

[Gabz]

LRMs are bugged... Hotfix coming

[Knyght]

This patch just made things worse. Gauss Cats are a thing of the past, for the most part. Which is nice. But our new enemy is the LRM boat.

I'm sure all/most of this has already been mentioned, but hopefully I can put it succinctly enough that people don't whine too much. Anyway, here is how to stop LRM spam and make the game more fun. Or rather, less unfun. All of these suggestions basically involve following the TT rules, and while I don't think TT should be followed exactly in MWO, in these cases I think they work just fine, and certainly much better than what we currently have.

• TAG should only affect Arrow IV. Sure, have a really good hit chance and huge damage if I'm tagged, but only if the LRM boat wants to spend 15 tons on a weapon with only 5 shots per ton.
  
• Artemis FCS should only give a bonus if target is in LoS. I'm not sure if it currently works this way, but it feels like it just gives better accuracy regardless.
  
• Double Heat Sinks should be what they say on the tin. Double. With DHS being double lights can put out useful damage while harassing and maybe people would start using ER LL's to snipe that LRM boat sitting on top of a hill without any cover.
  
• Guardian (Angel too if you really like) ECM Suite. Not as big of a deal as people seem to think, but we'll see.
  
• Fast mechs should be able to avoid missiles much better. I shouldn't have to upgrade the engine of a light mech to avoid missiles if I'm going 90 degrees to them and changing direction. Anything going over 80 or 90km/h should be much better off for avoiding LRMs than currently. Right now a stock Commando or even Jenner has a pretty rough time avoiding LRMs.
  
• LRMs should do one damage per missile hit.
  
• The trajectory is still a little too ridiculous. They're supposed to fire ballistically, not fly ballistically, then drop down 90 degrees at the last second. Also fix clipping. I can't even count the number of times I've jumped right behind a huge cliff or building to avoid LRMs, only for them to fall directly on my head.
  
• Probably most importantly, firing without LoS should give significant to-hit penalties. If this is bigger spread or some other mechanic I don't mind, but non-LoS being just as good as LoS is a bit ridiculous. I wouldn't mind TAG being used for regular LRMs in fact, if TAG upped the accuracy to the current base limit, but will only give the bonus outside of LoS, and massively nerf the non-LoS accuracy otherwise.

Good work on the missile warning though, I guess? At least I get to know when I'm about to be slaughtered.

IMO, anyway. Maybe others have better suggestions. And of course there are plenty (of LRM boaters) that will disagree. But such is life.

Thanks.

Edit: Oops, just noticed the hotfix that actually does some of this stuff. But I still think the other points are valid enough.

Edited by Knyght, 07 November 2012 - 09:11 PM.

[Waladil]

Dear Coventry Metal Works,

We were very pleased with your last shipment of Artemis IV-enhanced LRMs. They served quite admirably in battle. Furthermore, we would like to place another order, this one twice as large as our usual. Please ship the materiel to the Lyran world of Bolan. We will be by to pick them up.

[Kittamaru]

On Forest Colony, LRM's are able to fly THROUGH the roof of the cavern to impact targets... both inside and outside the cavern...

It also appears that LRM boats can sit inside the cavern and lock targets outside, fire THROUGH the roof, and hit targets...

;

I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't WATCH IT with my own eyes... I only wish I had had FRAPS running...

[CobaltFire]

Since the patch I have had severe issues both obtaining and holding LRM and SSRM locks. This issue presents itself as the rotating yellow circle pausing just before lock and the tone not changing.

This will occassionally complete to a lock after 2-3 seconds, and will also occassionally break lock and go back to the stuck position.

Most often (~80%) I have to drop target and retarget, sometimes 2-3 times, to obtain a lock.

This issue is not affected by the position of the aiming reticle in the target box. It is not unique to any particular map, and affects both LRMs and SSRMs, with or without Artemis IV. This issue was not present prior to this patch.

[Raven-kell]

really guass cats...now lrms?
are you saying you don't like the patch because you cant do what you want?
I take lrms guass and laz boats or k2 cidica awesome. I have no problems with anything. in reality my heat is better than it use to be even with the rating going down.
LOS does work but not if you are still seen by another enemy mech.
when you say lrm spam I think "dont rush"
I still see pilots running str8 to bases then whine about lrms..really?
People get use to one style of play (brawling) then when they adjust it becomes unplayable when persons can jsut run in.
But that's just my 2 cents.

[Lord de Seis]

Gausscats were NEVER as big of an issue as LRM's currently are.

[twibs]

Getting fixed.
http://mwomercs.com/...hotfix-nov-8th/

[The Wine Gnat]

I put up with it for several days as a new player. I understand to use cover, I understanf to wait and to dodge, but when LRMS can HIT YOU UNDERGROUND there is a major ******* problem.

Great job balancing devs.

Lost another player.

Sad part is that I am a lifelong MW fan. Sucks that you ruined this game. Steering everyone I know away from this until you address MAJOR BALANCING ISSUES.

[twibs]

Getting fixed.
http://mwomercs.com/...hotfix-nov-8th/

[smurfynet]

I also had this issue once, all was find got lock to all targets for my artemis lrms, but then i cant get a lock on a specific enemy. only yellow circle.

only happend once for me.

[Knyght]

DaveKell, on 07 November 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

bla bla bla

Your points would be valid if I was terrible. But seriously, walking behind a huge wall should protect me from LRMs. It currently doesn't do that reliably. Seems like complete luck if the thing I'm standing behind actually shields me or not.

In fact, even if I was terrible, your points aren't valid. The damage is a bit too high and being able to kill anything regardless of how much cover they're in is stupid.

Lord de Seis, on 07 November 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

Gausscats were NEVER as big of an issue as LRM's currently are.

Agreed. Gauss Cats didn't/don't bother me, they usually wasted their ammo trying to track me and ended up crying.

twibs, on 07 November 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

Getting fixed.
http://mwomercs.com/...hotfix-nov-8th/

I already noted that.

[AlphaPiAlpha]

Just played some rounds and 2 out of 3 matches the teams were only missiling each other??!? OMG, that was plain boring and mechs went down fast and it was more a random outcome on the matches than any good skillfull fighting, tactics, whatever.. that was plain boring... There will be a hotpatch today to make the Artemis+LRMs less powerfull. Hope they do it right cause at the moment it is plain broken!

[Waladil]

I had this issue once (that I recall)
IIRC, I fired my missiles and immediately after the lock finished acquiring properly. I think that barrage hit, too.
However, my memory may be flawed on that. There have been a lot of LRM barrages the past day and I don't claim a perfect memory.

[maxmarechal]

played three games yesterday and my awesome with triple lrm10 was next to useless without artemis as it would hardly lock targets
once i bought artemis it was much better (except for rearm price but that would be another topic...)
any clue?

[Nostress]

stop crying!)
...game is still in Betta right now)) ewerything will be chaged dozens times))

[devast8ndiscodave]

twibs, on 07 November 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

Getting fixed.
http://mwomercs.com/...hotfix-nov-8th/

If you think this will fix the LRM issue then you are dead wrong. People will still LRM boat, FACT. Wait and see. I guarantee this will NOT change anything.

[ChaosKitten]

Yes, LRMs are broken. They were over-powered before the patch and now they are just insanely so.

So what should be done?

Here are my suggestions:

• Make LRMs a lot sloppier, they should be spraying missiles all around the target (not just all over the target's armour. Much wider spread than even before the patch.
  
• Using Narc and Tag can offset the wider spread on the LRMs
  
• According to the BattleTechWiki, the firing unit must have line of sight to its target, indirectly fired LRM receives no increase in accuracy. So Artemis is incorrectly implemented.
  
• Make LRMs hotter
  
• Make LRM ammo points smaller, so you get fewer missiles per ton
  
• Make LRM damage 1.5 per missile, like it was in early closed beta.

There are other ways to solve it, I'm sure. ... but it needs to be solved. This, combined with how groups work - are preventing me from enjoying the game. It's supposedly an "open beta" but I paid for it and they nag me to buy MC... so, IMHO, this is released software.

ChaosKitten