769 replies to this topic

[SmithMPBT]

Ransack, on 20 November 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

Ignorant? Please show me where I can put even ONE laser on a Cat A1. LRM's are a Catapult A1, C1, and C4's main weapon. They should be able to kill **** without taking on extra tons of ammo.

Fire "Support" Mechs (cough)

[XvDraxvX]

SmithMPBT, on 20 November 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

Fire "Support" Mechs (cough)

So is it that fact that the TRO says its a Fire Support or the fact it uses LRM's ?

If its the tag "Fire Support Mech" then i would have to ask if you think the 3 PPC Awesome, Jagermech, K2, and other Ballistic hard point mechs should be considered support and thus have there damaged nerfed into "Support", or "unable to kill".

Maybe its the LRM's? Ok so does that mean the Timberwolf, and say the Atlas are Support mechs becuase they mount a LRM rack or 2? So should we nerf there damage into "Support", or "unable to kill"?

Many places in the TRO is point to mechs having medium lasers as "support" weapons should we have medium lasers doing even less damage?

I think you see my point here. The LRM was nerfed because it was over buffed, but it was over buffed by accident. The extreme Angle of the Nov 6th patch has ruined people impression of the weapon.

The LRM should be placed back to the Nov 6 status, damage and grouping wise. Then adjust the angle to not be a 90 Degree death rain. Then that should be less/decayed if you do not have Artemis.

I am not saying it should be as good/OP as the Nov 6th Patch but Close to that would be ok, especially with the new "Incoming Missiles" warning and ECM on the horizon.

Edit: Adjusted my dates on the patches for Clarity. thank you Thontor.

Edited by XvDraxvX, 20 November 2012 - 10:20 AM.

[SmithMPBT]

XvDraxvX, on 20 November 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

So is it that fact that the TRO says its a Fire Support or the fact it uses LRM's ?

If its the tag "Fire Support Mech" then i would have to ask if you think the 3 PPC Awesome, Jagermech, K2, and other Ballistic hard point mechs should be considered support and thus have there damaged nerfed into "Support", or "unable to kill".

Maybe its the LRM's? Ok so does that mean the Timberwolf, and say the Atlas are Support mechs becuase they mount a LRM rack or 2? So should we nerf there damage into "Support", or "unable to kill"?

Many places in the TRO is point to mechs having medium lasers as "support" weapons should we have medium lasers doing even less damage?

I think you see my point here. The LRM was nerfed because it was over buffed, but it was over buffed by accident. The extreme Angle of the Nov 6th patch has ruined people impression of the weapon.

The LRM should be placed back to the Nov 6 status, damage and grouping wise. Then adjust the angle to not be a 90 Degree death rain. Then that should be less/decayed if you do not have Artemis.

I am not saying it should be as good/OP as the Nov 6th Patch but Close to that would be ok, especially with the new "Incoming Missiles" warning and ECM on the horizon.

Edit: Adjusted my dates on the patches for Clarity. thank you Thontor.

Was referring to his statement about Mechs with LRMs as their only weapon, or almost their only. Timberwolf and Atlas's have a mix of weapons for brawling/general combat. Catapult C4's and arguably C1(due to heat) are intended as Fire Support. Shaving armor off the enemy until your lancemates can engage closeup.

Getting overrun by lights and earning a quick death isn't justification for upping LRM damage. So if you're using a LRM boat, have backup and know your role.

[30ft SMURF]

It seems a lot of people, who don't use lrms, are perfectly fine with those of us who do getting screwed over by this... Well all I have to say about that is your favorite weapon will get bitched about sometime in the near future and if enough people cry about it they'll nerf that too. Good to know all you have to do to get your way in this game is to ***** and moan and the devs will do everything in their power to change the game over night. They couldn't get a patch out that fast or implement new features, but they sure can drop a fix that is worse than the problem it created. At this point I'd settle for pre-Artemis lrms which were useful as opposed to the crap ones we're better off forgetting ever existed. As of this moment I no longer use ams or lrms in any mech I play. Prior to this 'fix' I put ams on every mech I owned, but there is no need anymore. I can close on an lrm user in my slowest mech fast enough to render them useless and I don' bother playing lrm boats anymore because even with 2k missiles I'm rarely lucky enough to hit 300dmg. I can do 900-1000 dmg w/4 med pulse lasers in a roughly 10min battle, but its nigh-impossible to get anywhere near that damage w/lrms. Two gauss rifles can easily do 600-900dmg, 2 Uac5's can pull down 800-1000 easily enough even streak srm 2's on an a1 catapult can easily hit 900-1000dmg. For most of 1 day lrm boats w/10+ tons of ammo spiked the damage charts with 1200-1700 dmg and people freaked out, but failed to consider it costs a f-ton of cbills to rearm that much artemis ammo and that we use twice the ammount of ammo as most other mechs. Still lookin' at the numbers and thinking 1200 dmg and 2k missiles fired means roughly 30% hit a target and 70% were blocked by cover or dodged by losing missile lock. Perhaps lrms were tweaked to do too much damage, but a great part of that was trying to make them a viable weapon system in an environment where they rarely hit a target. I still think the only fix that needed to happen was lrms should have been reduced to close to 1dmg per missile. That would have changed the average damage for an lrm boat that spewed a constant barrage of missiles and survived a match of 10min or longer to 600-850, which is normal for anyone who uses any other weapon system in the game and manages to fight it out that long. Using strategy, team work and coordinating attacks could be used to deal with lrm boats, but its easier to complain and threaten to quit if you don't get your way. Thanks again to everyone who helped to render a significant portion of this game not worth playing.

Edited by 30ft SMURF, 22 November 2012 - 06:27 AM.

[Hayashi]

Strangely, even though no mention of LRMs were made in the patch, I seem to be taking far more damage from them now than I had prior to the Nov 20 patch. Prior, I wouldn't even have had to care, I just let them hit my Dragon. Now, they actually have the potential to reduce my CT armour to nothing within 3-4 LRM30 salvos.

Guessing PGI did a ninja balance change here...

[30ft SMURF]

I don' know what kind of damage I'd manage w/lrms atm, but they do seem to be less insignificant... Guess I might have to run ams on more mechs and try them out again.

[Skirich]

I think this because flightpath have been adjusted a little and planned +0.1 dmg was implemented to test. Playing yesterday my c4 noticed not qite big, but sustain dmage dealing by lrms. At least i now could make heavy mech to seek cover. 750 lrms and 4 mlas = 1100 dmg, lrms = 400-600. not sure cause i was dwelled right in a center of main brawl)

Edited by Skirich, 23 November 2012 - 07:28 AM.

[BalzaSteel]

this conversation could go on forever, missile wimps = "missiles are op, that's the way they should be" vrs the skilled pilots = "missiles are for those who can't shoot"

personally I think missiles would be perfect the way they are, if the 75% free rearm bug was eliminated, we'd see a lot fewer missile wimps if they had to pay for those missiles they're spamming.

BalzOut

[Gulinborsti]

I levelled my C1 and C4 in the past few days and got elite efficiencies unlocked and they can be beasts when played well. And by "playing well" I don't mean StreakyPults or LRM only builds. And you have to focus on being a supporter for your team, not the number one "I kill all" weirdo.

LRMs are far from getting you many kills, although if well played (not wasting ammo on targets under cover) the damage output is quite high. I managed to be in the top 1-3 positions of almost every game after some practice.

Sure, they obviously don't require as much skill and training as long range snipers or good brawlers, but they are interesting to play and I never got the feeling of piloting something OP are balance breaking.

When 2 or 3 LRM based mechs end up in a team, join their forces and focus well, they can be very efficiently disturbing enemy efforts.

In summary I think that LRMs are currently well balanced and play an interesting role.

However, moving on to new shores (K2 is waiting) and I guess I will be on the receiving end LRM wise for the next few days...

[Gulinborsti]

BalzaSteel, on 23 November 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

personally I think missiles would be perfect the way they are, if the 75% free rearm bug was eliminated, we'd see a lot fewer missile wimps if they had to pay for those missiles they're spamming.

Although I agree that ammo costs need to be fixed, I noticed that I could hardly earn CBills when running those catapults.

I usually paid 60 - 70k only for re arming (4 tons lrm + 2 ton streak on the C4), this means that without a premium account you will loose money when you loose a game, not mentioning when you get killed. If you win and get some - unlikely or random - kills you still have to pay 50% of your income on the ammo.

So, basically also this part seems to be balanced to me.