769 replies to this topic

[Hayashi]

The damage is too low. I like the spread as it is, it gives TAG and Artemis uses, especially in combination.

After the accuracy changes I don't think 2.0 will cut it anymore. Considering cover, AMS and possible ECM effects, I'd place the optimal LRM damage at 2.5/missile. Too much more than that and it becomes cheese... but if it's not improved enough it just plain won't get used.

[Master Cerberus]

Xenok, on 19 November 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

LRMs did far less damage compared to other weapons in tabletop as well. I think that an AMS system should work well (and by this I mean block 4-5 out a LRM5 volley, 6-8 out of a LRM 10 volley, 8-12 from a 15 or 20 with a cap of 12 missiles per volley.) This would still leave the mech volnerable to 18 missiles from two LRM 15s fired simultaneously . The exact numbers should be tested but they are less effective than they should be today.




Soft cover is fine, but fire from behind a hill where there is no way a Direct fire weapon could hit them is not ok. I don't want the missiles to detonate on every leaf or tree branch, but they should have to fly out straight from the mech for the first xx distance in order to force an LRM platform to be exposed to LOS weapons for a moment when they fire, also if far enough behind a hill and the target is spotted and within 1000 meters I am fine with this. You are trading off greater range for say 180 meeter of clear area in front of the mech to let the missiles turn up and go hunting. It just needs to have a cost associated with the full cover behind a building or a hill.

Just remove them from the game along with every other weapon. We'll fight like men, dancing around each other at 50m loaded with gauss rifles and seeing who goes down first.

Honestly, I love lrms, not because I like to cheese but because they are a flexible weapons platform for sniping which is what I tend to do in every game I play. In before someone tells me to use ballistics, I've tried them but they are not really sniper weapons in this game. They are "hope you stand still and don't notice me..." as there is no real means to lead a shot effectively at 1600m unless your that good with them and know the bullet travel time/can predict movement of target before it finds cover/before you run out of ammo because the weight limits you to 25 shots. A sniper finds cover and takes out key targets, ballistics don't do that here. However, after getting an lrm boat I found it to be a minor inconvinience at best to the enemy team. Most of the time I end up losing money on the repair costs for it and thats without artemis equipped. Then I see people go nerf lrm this and lower lrm that, come on, come to terms with the fact you don't want to spend the tonnage for ams or other upgrades and want to just run out and brawl with ballistics/thermal without those pesky lrms doing anything to you.

This weapons platform was overbuffed and now everyone is begging to get it nerfed to the point where it does nothing at all. If so many ways exist to counter it which you can CHOOSE not to use then why is it so weak to start with, that makes it and all those systems pointless. Buff the damage or increase the number of missles that regularly hit the target, otherwise all I can do with my pult is let is gather dust in my bay since atm its just a moneysink.

As a sidenote I don't see why there is such an abundant amount of people that want to make weapons systems that are already underpowered eniterly obsolete, is it to trick newcomers to the game that its something worth doing when in fact only a few truly viable pieces of equipment exist? Its dumb, the first thing that comes to your mind shouldn't be how can we nerf this, it should be how can we make this balanced and if that indeed involves nerfing then so be it. By balanced I don't mean so that only you can be a threat on the battlefield with only your chosen wepons system.

Edited by Master Cerberus, 19 November 2012 - 02:33 PM.

[30ft SMURF]

Please reduce lrm damage to 1 like its supposed to be. Improve lrm flight path so they fly higher and can go over buildings if they have a lock. Hiding behind a small building should help if the lrm user looses target lock, but not if they have a spotter so people might need to use a bit more pilot skill to avoid missiles. please also consider decreasing the spread of missiles again for artemis systems and try... if that doesn't fix the problem... to balance the damage output so lrms become a viable weapon system again.

[NoBodie]

ChaosKitten, on 08 November 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

• [idea!] Add a delay between lock location and mech location, based on the distance between the two, so the farther away the mech, the more off the hit will be, in the case of a moving mech. Those radar blips take time to travel, you know.

-- ChaosKitten

As an ex-radar tech and instructor. Looking at a map that is at most 2000m sq on avg. RF engery travelling at speed of light, There is a delay of nano seconds. You wouldn't even notice it. There is no jumping of blips. The only delay would be from the guidenance compluter and the servos moving the flight surfaces.

[Araxes]

When ECM comes in, LRMs will be completely defunct as a weapon system. The missile warning, combined with the slow speed of the missiles in the current implementation makes them far too easy to avoid, and the damage is pitiful compared to just about any other weapon.

Buffing them a whole .1 damage is going to do precisely nothing to improve the situation. It boggles the mind that PGI can't see that.

[Knyght]

30ft SMURF, on 19 November 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

Please reduce lrm damage to 1 like its supposed to be.

In my original post on page 1 somewhere I suggest this too. But I've realised that it's not a good idea. 1 damage is nothing. The reason 1 damage is fine in TT is because the armour is half the strength as MWO, which is a change I agree with (otherwise one good salvo of AC20 will kill or at least cripple a small light mech). So somewhere around 2 is actually a decent number. Maybe I'd suggest between 1.75 and 2.25, but I won't know until I see it.

However I would still like to make indirect fire much more innacurate without TAG/NARC as in TT. It's actually somewhere around this now, which is fine really.

In my opinion, LRMs should only really be useful indirect weapons with spotters using TAG/NARC (and make NARC much more useful as it should be). Even better, only with Arrow IV, but that might make regular LRMs much less useful. With direct LoS, TAG/NARC shouldn't matter so much, but Artemis should, and LRMs in direct LoS and Artemis should be reasonably devastating, though still not totally crippling. They should still be primarily a support weapon, but closer to a regular weapon if used with direct LoS and Artemis.

In my opinion, anyway.

[Marithiel]

I much preferred the MW4 LRMs

You needed line of sight (reticle over target) to get a lock for LRMs. The only time you could bypass this was if a team mate had TAG or NARC.

[Dimento Graven]

SicksGunz, on 19 November 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

I ran a missile founder's cat most of last night and did just fine in it. 300 damage on a bad game, 800+ on a good one. It's not the be-all-end-all-auto-nuke weapon it used to be, but that's a good thing. It's still a super useful weapon system that gives your lance that over-the-horizon slap capability.

You're full of crap. Video or it didn't happen.

[Sybreed]

Hayashi, on 19 November 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

The damage is too low. I like the spread as it is, it gives TAG and Artemis uses, especially in combination.

After the accuracy changes I don't think 2.0 will cut it anymore. Considering cover, AMS and possible ECM effects, I'd place the optimal LRM damage at 2.5/missile. Too much more than that and it becomes cheese... but if it's not improved enough it just plain won't get used.

you know, I suggested the same thing in another thread I posted and I got accused of heresy or something, yet you, a community manager think alike.

My point is:

WHY DIDN'T YOU COME TO MY DEFENSE?

[warp103]

SicksGunz, on 19 November 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

I ran a missile founder's cat most of last night and did just fine in it. 300 damage on a bad game, 800+ on a good one. It's not the be-all-end-all-auto-nuke weapon it used to be, but that's a good thing. It's still a super useful weapon system that gives your lance that over-the-horizon slap capability.

i trying to say this nice but...
ok let me think a few videos post all showing the same damage with Artemis. I thing this is in the relm of Are you Fracking nuts.
A monkey throwing banana would do more damage.A least a jenny would slip on one.

[Knyght]

warp103, on 19 November 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

A least a jenny would slip on one.

Not until they put falls back in they won't

[Long Draw]

Dimento Graven, on 19 November 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

You're full of crap. Video or it didn't happen.

I believe them Dimento. After all, 300 damage means he wouldn't have gotten through the armor anywhere on an Atlas. And 800 damage still means that he probably went through 1.5k ammo just to barely scratch the internals on an atlas. OOOOOHHHH! I'm shakin in ma boots!

[Dahmon13]

OK so i see a lot on the preformance of LRMs but to me they are pretty good as they are right now. My only real problem is the cost of running with them. I run a cat with 2 LRM 15s and 6 tons of ammo. (or 1080 missles for those of you who have trouble with math ) Now when i win and take almost no damg i still at most make only 15 to 20 grand. If I take a lot of Damg i at best break even. On a loss i lose between 30 to 60 grand. I love my support role with LRMs but i cant play it very often because it costs me too much. Right now LRMs are not too OP or Nerfed they just cost too much to use even when you win.(and I admit i lose a lot more then i win cause im still learning! ) i dont want to see the stats of the missles canged right now i want to see the repain and reammo cost brought down. Thoughts everyone?

[Dimento Graven]

Long Draw, on 20 November 2012 - 04:57 AM, said:

I believe them Dimento. After all, 300 damage means he wouldn't have gotten through the armor anywhere on an Atlas. And 800 damage still means that he probably went through 1.5k ammo just to barely scratch the internals on an atlas. OOOOOHHHH! I'm shakin in ma boots!

Yeah, I believe he was doing 300 damage regularly too, that was the end of his believable statements. 800 damage... Well unless you sacrifice a lot, a CAT, nor an Atlas would be able to carry enough ammo to get that much damage, UNLESS, the targets he was shooting at were AFK, disco'd, or just extremely stupid and standing still allowing him to endlessly rain missles on them, not even bothering to go for cover.

I loaded an Atlas D-DC with 3 LRM's, 2000+ rounds of Artemis ammo, I've NEVER gotten anywhere near 800 damage. I think the closest I got was in the high 500's.

[I Just Ate Your Grapes Bro]

Dimento Graven, on 20 November 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

Yeah, I believe he was doing 300 damage regularly too, that was the end of his believable statements. 800 damage... Well unless you sacrifice a lot, a CAT, nor an Atlas would be able to carry enough ammo to get that much damage, UNLESS, the targets he was shooting at were AFK, disco'd, or just extremely stupid and standing still allowing him to endlessly rain missles on them, not even bothering to go for cover.

I loaded an Atlas D-DC with 3 LRM's, 2000+ rounds of Artemis ammo, I've NEVER gotten anywhere near 800 damage. I think the closest I got was in the high 500's.

That's because you are clearly god awful.... simple math would tell you, 2000 x 1.7 (the current damage per missile)= 3.4k. If you used Arty and were half as good as you think you are, you'd have AT LEAST gotten up to 1.5k damage, that's just half of your missiles hitting.... Learn to play, the LRMs are no longer an "I win" button for those that don't have skill, sorry.

Thontor, on 20 November 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

Ok now try it without using your lasers at all and let me see how that goes.

Best I've gotten testing with the trial C1 is around 150 damage with 360 missiles. To get 800 damage you either are carrying 10+ tons of LRM ammo and using and hitting with all of it...

Or you are using your lasers which inflates your damage numbers.


People, if you are going to post damage numbers to back up your opinion on either side of the debate... Make sure you are using LRMs and LRMs only.

All I hear is "Whaaa, I can't boat LRMs and sit at the back of a fight and rule the match anymore"



So sick of this whining....

PEOPLE, LRMs were NOT meant to be the only weapon people used, this is MECH-warrior, NOT LRM-warrior, learn to stick with teammates if you're going to boat missiles, or equip other weapons.... this argument is just ignorant, you're really whining that you might have to carry a laser or two for when LRMs might not be the most optimal weapon?

Edited by Ehrithane, 20 November 2012 - 08:42 AM.

[warp103]

Thontor, on 20 November 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

Ok now try it without using your lasers at all and let me see how that goes.

Best I've gotten testing with the trial C1 is around 150 damage with 360 missiles. To get 800 damage you either are carrying 10+ tons of LRM ammo and using and hitting with all of it...

Or you are using your lasers which inflates your damage numbers.


People, if you are going to post damage numbers to back up your opinion on either side of the debate... Make sure you are using LRMs and LRMs only.

lol they will not do that because they know they would be dead ducks>{animals on the brain}.Dev answer 25 show they are not going to do a damn thing about it. Even with video showing this{I posted a few as other have}. So the long and short is go with the SSRM or srm. The dev suck monkey nuts for not looking and listening to the guys than been around since close beta .It all about noob crying about i got killed because I did not know to go to cover. Thus the BIG MISSILE warning , need one for the gauss too if you are that fraking scared.{{I know ban hammer coming }} but the truth is the truth.

Ehrithane, on 20 November 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

That's because you are clearly god awful.... simple math would tell you, 2000 x 1.7 (the current damage per missile)= 3.4k. If you used Arty and were half as good as you think you are, you'd have AT LEAST gotten up to 1.5k damage, that's just half of your missiles hitting.... Learn to play, the LRMs are no longer an "I win" button for those that don't have skill, sorry.

Your math assumes 1.7 we have show {vidoes} it is .7 so redo you math. IF AMS install it .04- .09.

Edited by warp103, 20 November 2012 - 08:38 AM.

[I Just Ate Your Grapes Bro]

warp103, on 20 November 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

lol they will not do that because they know they would be dead ducks>{animals on the brain}.Dev answer 25 show they are not going to do a damn thing about it. Even with video showing this{I posted a few as other have}. So the long and short is go with the SSRM or srm. The dev suck monkey nuts for not looking and listening to the guys than been around since close beta .It all about noob crying about i got killed because I did not know to go to cover. Thus the BIG MISSILE warning , need one for the gauss too if you are that fraking scared.{{I know ban hammer coming }} but the truth is the truth.


Your math assumes 1.7 we have show {vidoes} it is .7 so redo you math. IF AMS install it .04- .09.

Fair enough, that's still 1400 damage from 1 weapon system that never needs to even see a target, ever. Oh no, cut it in half and it's only 700.... CRAP..... that's only still awesome damage in a match....... AND you never had to see a target? woe is the LRM boater.....

And this is assuming you are correct, which I only have your word to go off of here. *shrug*

Just do some quick math with any other weapon system, see if you can get anywhere close to those numbers, maybe SRMs.... if you're the most godly pilot around.... Lasers, sure, but you're going to have to last a LONG time to make that happen..... And don't give me the indirect damage vs. direct damage argument, you get to hit enemies without ever seeing them, you really think that should THEN be converted into direct fire damage?

I get that you want your tiny little LRMs to be absolutely terrifying to a 100 ton assault mech, I do.... but.... that's just stupid and not good gameplay.... Fortunately, the people making those decisions lean more toward my side of the argument

Edited by Ehrithane, 20 November 2012 - 08:56 AM.

[warp103]

Ehrithane, on 20 November 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

Fair enough, that's still 1400 damage from 1 weapon system that never needs to even see a target, ever. Oh no, cut it in half and it's only 700.... CRAP..... that's only still awesome damage in a match....... AND you never had to see a target? woe is the LRM boater.....

And this is assuming you are correct, which I only have your word to go off of here. *shrug*

Not my word Look over the this section you will see videos. I have posted a few and alot have tested. 700 would be good if u were not spending crap loads of cb . If i go full boat and load over 10 case of ammo i lose big even if my team win. But a K2 with gauss can kill at over 1k and spends nothing. Were is the warning for gauss or jenny none why, people are scare of something that ez to stop. They need to find cover or kill the spotter.

Edited by warp103, 20 November 2012 - 08:54 AM.

[XvDraxvX]

Ehrithane, on 20 November 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

Fair enough, that's still 1400 damage from 1 weapon system that never needs to even see a target, ever. Oh no, cut it in half and it's only 700.... CRAP..... that's only still awesome damage in a match....... AND you never had to see a target? woe is the LRM boater.....

And this is assuming you are correct, which I only have your word to go off of here. *shrug*

You realize that with the current flight path its pretty impossible to just sit behind any form of cover and fire a missile right? The Angle of departure is much lower and would likely slam into your cover if you were behind it.

Also lets say for instance you do "just sit behind cover" i like playing devil's advocate. Is holding my targeting reticle really any different then you doing it with a laser or Gauss rifle? Its not really hold a reticle over your target is the same with either weapon. If you dont keep a bead on your target you wont hit it. I know what your going to say though "but i have to be out in the open dodging weapon fire! you sit in the back!" This may be true but in the back most LRM mech's my self included are also commanding the battle.

While I'm in the back i am relaying troop movement's, enemy ordinance read outs, current targets of fire. Levels of target damage. I am asking for eye's on targets that have been lost, i am also taking feed back from my team on when missiles are hitting, missing, if i need to swap targets. All of this while holding my reticle over a box, dodging enemy fire, poking behind cover, and on top of all that trying not to die to the fast Lights or mediums pushing through our lines.

So just because you think LRM's take no skill does not make that a fact.

[Ransack]

Ehrithane, on 20 November 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

So sick of this whining....

PEOPLE, LRMs were NOT meant to be the only weapon people used, this is MECH-warrior, NOT LRM-warrior, learn to stick with teammates if you're going to boat missiles, or equip other weapons.... this argument is just ignorant, you're really whining that you might have to carry a laser or two for when LRMs might not be the most optimal weapon?

Ignorant? Please show me where I can put even ONE laser on a Cat A1. LRM's are a Catapult A1, C1, and C4's main weapon. They should be able to kill **** without taking on extra tons of ammo.