2028 replies to this topic

[ICEFANG13]

ShadowThunder77, on 14 December 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

any word on wether or not ECM will stay as is??

They may adjust it, but not a lot, that's what this says at the bottom:
http://m.pcgamer.com...st-mode-release

[ShadowThunder77]

all i can say after reading that is .

[LynxFury]

"Specialized Mechs still have their place on the battlefield but they are going to need the assistance of their teammates to succeed." The problem with that statement is about the most ]specialized mech in the game, the ECM mechs, need no help from team mates at all. Tonight 8x8 mostly with the same tired recipe of DDC and 3L. One original team had 6 3L raven and 2 ECM commando, another 3 DDC, 2 x 3L and a pair of srm catapults. None had LRMs, tag or not.

Current ECM has pulled the game further from battletech than even the worse versions of MW4 during the NOVA hill humping and pop tart domination periods.

Edited by LynxFury, 14 December 2012 - 10:20 PM.

[ICEFANG13]

Yep I played 2 8-man games, terrible and boring. ECM is the name of the game. Seriously, PGI, look at the player base while playing 4 man, PUG (if you can tell the difference, as in, if the computers let you know), and 8 man. ECM mechs make up, what, 8% of the available mechs? In my experience, in PUG, its about 50% of the mechs, in 8 man, it usually is 7/8ths for an average.

[peckham33]

If they care about players: they better fix ecm
If they care about money: they better fix ecm
If they care about keeping this game around: they better fix ecm
If they want to have weapon sitting in the game that nobody uses: leaving ecm as is will do it
If they want to run out of enough money to support themselves: they better fix ecm
If they want to die in a hole: leaving ecm as is will sure help.

disclaimer: yes, I like missiles; and yes, I can fight everything except the missile immune ecm carrying mechs; and yes, I pack weapons that work inside ecm range

able to function it dose not equal enjoying it though. I play games to enjoy them, not to ask myself "why am I waisting my time with this?"

[ShadowThunder77]

all i can say after reading that is .

[Alik Kerensky]

ECM overall is nice, but too strong with no drawbacks. At this point I can understand why you wouldn't put it on my Jenner, with its manuverability it would make life a living hell for any ecm or non-ecm equiped mech... more so than it still is. Also allowing the Commando COM-2D to mount it effectively makes it the "new" streak cat... just 10x harder to hit where I've never really had issue with the "old" streak cats of the past before ecm and nurfing.

Suggestions on improvement would be to limit the ecm mech to fight and counter or not fight and Disrupt... canceling their disruption ability if they engage a target and a "slight" time delay (maybe 10 seconds like a good old fashion turn in BT and a module to reduce it futher) before being able to switch it back on.

Also balance... there should always be an equal number of ecm equiped mechs on each team.

Edited by Alik Kerensky, 14 December 2012 - 10:57 PM.

[Blood78]

Best way to get PGI to address ECM is to abuse the hell out of it. Form 4 or 8 man premade ECM team (preferably cmd 2d) with 3 streaks. When you move at top speed and jam everyone, streak everyone to death, AND abuse lack of collison...after enough goon wins like that ECM will be addressed VERY quickly.

This will probably also get lack of collison addressed as well...

I really do would prefer if PGI spend more time balancing and fixing long surviving bugs (black/yellow screen, overheat bug, lost/forzen radar bug, no hud bug, etc.) rather than releasing new mechs. At this point, I haven't spent my MC or unpaused my premium time because it's too buggy and my core needs are not being met. Core needs being balanced game with stability.

Edit: Please note that due to ECM, lack of collison, it has immediate affect on the battlefield in following ways.

- LRM is rarity, not much IDF
- Not much IDF = builds that was easily countered by IDF such as dual ac20 Cat or SRM 6x6 Cat are more prevalent and run into them a lot.
- Unless it's trial jenner, everyone else runs commando or raven as light scout with ECM and streaks
- StreakCAT is rarity, few hybrid (2-4 Streak, 2-4 SRM 4 or 6)
- Lot more win by cap and MWO is now sometimes referred as Cap Warrior Online (because ECM allows easier sneaking and lack of any other form of match available yet)
- 8 man premade rely a lot on ECM. Team that brings more ECM typically has higher probabilty of win. If you don't believe me, check your metrics I'm pretty sure it'll show that.
- Cicada ran through 4 mech in the cave in frozen city. Atlas > Cataphract > Hunch > Hunch by pretty much running directly through us. Followed by Raven...who did die because he or she was alphaed by SRM6x3.
- Commando was leg humping a slow Atlas and fired at Atlas without any repercussion. When he got tired of leg humping, he simply ran through the Atlas and shoot from back then to leg hump again (on 1 on 1). Didn't even bother to circle strafe with missiles or lasers...

Edited by Blood78, 14 December 2012 - 11:02 PM.

[Abivard]

How do you so consistently come against 6dc & 2rvn matches so often?
or 5dc& 3rvns? or even simply 8 ecm anyold mix?

I see it, just with no where the frequency the most vocal of you claim you encounter....

which makes me wonder... do you post between matches? so little time elapses between the posts.

We find that time better spent debriefing and adjusting for the next drop, but we are all much more team players and not glory-hounds running with 'boat exploits' so go figure hunh.

[40oz to Freedom]

"People are thinking we need to severely 'nerf' the ECM. This is not the case at all. There is already 1 counter-ECM item in the game (TAG), and likely there will be a couple more involving modules and weapon effects." -Inouye

There's also another approach, we all just play ECM ravens with streaks and TAG. The only way it would work "as-is" is to adjust the matchmaker to only allow 1 or 2 ECM equipped mechs per team per game. I can't even begin to imagine someone working on this game feeling that ECM is balanced unless they never bothered to play it themselves. I understand that streak-cats were being abused and a counter was needed, but by adding ECM they've also screwed the short range defenses of every other mech. With the speed, low profile of light mechs and buggy netcode it's insanely difficult to hit them on the run with regular dumbfire weapons, ECM also makes them personally invulnerable to all forms of lock-on missiles.

If the above comment is honestly how the devs feel about ECM then I don't hold out much faith for this game, they should be friggin grateful for all the feedback people have given about ECM in lieu of just moving on to a different game of which there are plenty. It wouldn't be the first time we've seen a developer make some stupid design decision which ruins a game and ignorantly stands by it as a smart choice while their gamer base flocks to the next big thing. In the meantime, open beta for Hawken is now live, might be worth checking out while PGI figures out their development priorities.

[QuackDamnYou]

I suspect that there's probably a reverse correlation at work here, at least in part: the players who were the most likely to have enough c-bills to buy the new tech right away (or have the variants to begin with) were most likely to be the players who have played the most and are more skilled and adaptable. Really we don't have a good baseline available in the form of our play experiences because matchmaking is inconsistent. My gut says it's annoying and unfun, but then again so is any time you lose because your team is seriously overmatched, whether due to equipment or skill level.

[The Legendary Samurai]

Figured this was probably 86 pages of QQ about ECM. As one of the people who've been busy playing instead of posting, I just wanted to drop in and say I'm loving it just as it is.

Information warfare makes this a thinking man's game.

I can't wait until more stuff/modules that increase information warfare are added.

[Mordin Ashe]

Jubelum, on 15 December 2012 - 12:44 AM, said:

"People are thinking we need to severely 'nerf' the ECM. This is not the case at all. There is already 1 counter-ECM item in the game (TAG), and likely there will be a couple more involving modules and weapon effects." -Inouye

There's also another approach, we all just play ECM ravens with streaks and TAG. The only way it would work "as-is" is to adjust the matchmaker to only allow 1 or 2 ECM equipped mechs per team per game. I can't even begin to imagine someone working on this game feeling that ECM is balanced unless they never bothered to play it themselves. I understand that streak-cats were being abused and a counter was needed, but by adding ECM they've also screwed the short range defenses of every other mech. With the speed, low profile of light mechs and buggy netcode it's insanely difficult to hit them on the run with regular dumbfire weapons, ECM also makes them personally invulnerable to all forms of lock-on missiles.

If the above comment is honestly how the devs feel about ECM then I don't hold out much faith for this game, they should be friggin grateful for all the feedback people have given about ECM in lieu of just moving on to a different game of which there are plenty. It wouldn't be the first time we've seen a developer make some stupid design decision which ruins a game and ignorantly stands by it as a smart choice while their gamer base flocks to the next big thing. In the meantime, open beta for Hawken is now live, might be worth checking out while PGI figures out their development priorities.

Oh yeah, PPC light mech running 130+ kph to death, why didn't I think of that!
Wait, I did. Doesn't work. Nothing you suggested works in game.

[Wintersdark]

I'll preface this with a disclaimer: I'm fairly new to the game, and thus far have only been playing pugs. I am an avid fan though, with a lot of experience in all the previous games.

That said, what I've found over a very large number of pug matches is the VAST majority of matches feature 1-2 ECM mechs. Sometimes more, but they are much more the exception than the norm.

I still see lots of indirect fire, typically 1-2 IDF mechs per match, which seems pretty appropriate to me. And that indirect fire is still effective.

While I can imagine a 8 ecm premade team being exceptionally annoying to a LRM boat, I can't feel sorry for mechs loaded to the teeth with Streaks. Go for some variety in weapons to be able to adapt.

If I were running an 8-man team that regularly faced shafts of Ravens and such? Ditch idf entirely, counter with a wall of heavy/assault direct fire mechs. Leave 2 to guard the base (and cover each others backs), have 6 bee-line to the opposing base and cap. Yeah, light mechs are hard to hit, but 6 heavy/assault mechs will destroy a swarm of lights with ease.

It seems to me that this is just a substantial change to how the game plays out, and it makes certain builds less ideal than they were. However, ever single doomsday scenario I hear about 8-man ecm teams seems eminently counterable.

With all that said, I am somewhat concerned about the Atlas with ECM, and also feel it should be a little more expensive (in terms of wieght) than it currently is. If you're piloting a light, it's a no-brainer right now.

The lack of collision is a serious issue, but - while it exacerbates the trouble with somewhat op light mechs) its important to realise that it is a separate issue. It's going to be corrected once they can get it working well, so they cannot make balance changes to other systems to account for this one not working right. We'll just have to wait for collision to be fixed (and it's on the road map).

Well, that's my two bits. Flame away.

[Elkarlo]

Only want to repeat it for PGI:
In TT there is beside Tag another Counteritem for ECM:
The BaP allows locking of ECM covered Mechs at 360 Meters.
Double Blind Rules: Maximum Tech.

Without THIS Option BaP is useless, with this Option there would be a viable Counter Item (1,5 tons 2 Slots)
for the ECM (1,5tons 2 Slots) which all Mechs can use.

The BaP is design for the Double Blind Rules and it whole Porpuse are the Doubleblind rules, so please use them correctly.
And the ECM is also designd for the Double Blind Rules... the Artemis, Narc bonus is nice but the ECM Mainpurpose are the Doubleblind Rules. So please READ THEM before implementing a Module like ECM.

ECM and BaP are old Level 3 Rules, most players only now the Tournament Level 2 Rules.

So give the BaP the intended ability to sniff out a ECM at 360 Meters and i think the whole ECM Issues will be gone very fast as we would have a good Counter to the Module which is not overpowered as it only counters ECM Mechs but they can still be sneaky.

[Gaussguy]

Well im one that agrees that ECM should not allow the equiped mech to use lock ons either. If they want to use their streaks they should have to switch the ECM to counter to use them. ECM has trivialized many of the light mechs that dont have ECM.

[CoreHunter]

just imagine what the angel ecm will do...

[Mister Zeus]

I'm only concerned with how much more I'm relying on Thermal Vision in almost every match because I can't rely on my targeting computer to identify an enemy mech that might be obscured in my field of view otherwise.

The reason this is concerning is that a good portion of PGI's MTX model is cosmetic, i.e. mech paint schemes and the like, and none of that shows up when you play in Thermal Vision. Additionally, some maps practically require Thermal Vision (Frozen City) because of the fog and Thermal cuts right through it. What could be an otherwise brilliant piece of game play based on terrain is rendered obsolete by Thermal Vision.

I'm not sure if the solution is to remove the reduced detection range for ECM, or to simply remove Thermal Vision from the game. Right now, I think removing Thermal Vision would be the best choice as it doesn't force a design change and requires players to enjoy the artwork that the PGI art team has been pouring into this game.

[Flash Yoghurt]

I've only playerd a couple of matches since the implementation of ECM and they were nearly all horrible...
ECM stay as it is -> Im gone, easy as that...

[CoreHunter]

is it possable to hide the founder tag on my profile? It reminds me i paid money for ecmonline and i feel dumb.

Remove thermal? wtf would we eleminate the last non brawling option left to use seriously? Who am i kidding it is probably a glitch that ecm doesnt mask your teams IR signatures and will be fixed with the next patch.