2028 replies to this topic

[GravityDog]

unlike some posts have said, LRM's are not dead due to ECM, still doing damge and gettng kills in PUG matches.

[Nightcrept]

Ixis, on 06 December 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

I'd just like to say that I think the dev's have got the balance just about right with the ecm,it does negate the problems of streak cats if you have one fitted which is all for the good and helps prevent multiple missile boats from nuking half your team while hiding behind cover at 1000m.Also once the ecm mech moves more than 180m away from the rest of the team they become visible again,which if you happen to be running a ecm scout thats what you should be doing anyway.The ecm pod doesn't protect you from direct fire so once the other team gets eyes on then you become vulnerable, I like the fact that scouting isn't a suicide mission anymore and the enemy doesn't just flatten your from range with lrm's and the first time I had a streak cat try to run away from my raven I laughed so much I nearly missed killing him.Having said that having ecm fitted does make you the prime target for the other team and if they have an ecm mech your visible when he gets close enough so it's by no means a god-mode addition,as for light ecm mechs being even more deadly to assalt mech's,tell me about it.I own 3 atlas's,beam weapons still work on ecm mechs and if he doesn't have ecm then so do your SSRM's.ECM is a game changer,it makes people think about how to work around the problem and taken out the mindless "mash the missle launch button" style of play that we have been seeing and steered the game back towards rewarding skillfull play.HUZZAR

problems are this.

1. streaks cannot even fire around ecm. Not at all. They just don't work. That means that if you run into a enemy ecm mech any streaks you have loaded are useless. Thus rendered combat ineffective in comparison to say srms.

2. One ecm will render lrms useless as well.

If their was an adequate counter for lrms and streaks could be dumb fired then ecm wouldn't be op. But as is lrms and especially streaks are useless against ecm.

No other weapons are rendered useless by a piece of equipment in the game.

GravityDog, on 06 December 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

unlike some posts have said, LRM's are not dead due to ECM, still doing damge and gettng kills in PUG matches.

Lrms are dead verses ecm. If your enemies bunch up against the ecm mech you get rolled. ECM is able to single handedly render two lines of weapons combat ineffective.

[Sam Slade]

Best suggestion thus far on ECMs.

http://mwomercs.com/...98-ecm-modules/

[MxRider1983]

Thanks to all the mechs out there with ECM, I will no longer pay PGI any more of my hard earned cash. All you see on the battlefield are Ravens, Atlas DDC's, Cicada 3M's and Commandos. You guys took a good game and made it crappy once again. Worse than EA. At least I only wasted 50 bucks on their games. If you guys wanted realism.. maybe you should have stuck to the tech readouts as far as the mechs are concerned. Make everything stock variants. Then you wouldn't have gauss rifles on Catapults or 6 streak racks on every Cat A1. Just can't believe how sorry this game is now... we finally get 8 man games back and crap on us with all the ECM filled servers. Whats next????

[SherXan]

ecm is just one more random factor - who got more, like which teams get more d/c's or blackscreens
team play in pugs is clearly lie and i cant understand why devs do what they do for almost half of year
and this is sad cuz i like battletech, sorry for all that tears =)

[TheSteelRhino]

What!?!?

Scouting is a suicide mission? Scouts can literally run through you formation without getting knocked down. U cannot hardly hit them due to warping and hit box wierdness.

You are obviously playing a different game.

Have u gone up against 6 atlas dc in a drop yet? Try dropping as part of a few 8 mech drops. Oh yes that is so much fun. Bunch up the heaviest mechs turn on ecm and rush the cap


Wow. What a great game that is ....not. Sorry but right now the game is broken. With exception of cicada mediums are kind of useless. At least in 8 man drops. Should make community warfare be a cataclysmic fail

[Nonsense]

I absolutely love where ECM is starting to take this game. Is it perfect? No, but it's very cool.

Likes:

• Forces teamwork to defeat enemy ECM
  
• Forces interesting tactical decisions
  
• Running into an enemy ECM field and seeing your sensors go into "low signal" mode even though the enemy ECM mech is hidden by terrain is a very interesting feeling, as it's a little scary but it also provides tactical depth even for non-ECM users.
  
• (theoretically) increases mech chassis variety (currently does not succeed in this, especially for 8v8)

Dislikes:

• Forces teamwork (can be very frustrating in PuGs)
  
• So good that you feel your team is at a serious disadvantage without it (really only a problem in PuGs..."do we have ECM and is the ECM pilot any good?"

Problems with ECM:

Like many others, I think the tools players have for defeating ECM are uninteresting and somewhat annoying. Part of the balance issue with 8v8 lies in the fact that there's no real penalty to stacking friendly ECMs (especially) in the form of D-DC atlases. Part of this stems from the capture gameplay. Sure, a team can simply wait for a group of enemy atlases to get too far from their base and use their speed to go cap, but that's not exactly exciting. One other problematic aspect of friendly ECM-stacking is that it requires an equal number of ECMs to defeat, thus making ECM that much more common. I've been wondering what it would be like if a single friendly ECM could defeat any number of enemy ECMs. Finally, 8v8 has no tonnage limit, so there's no real depth to team composition selection.

I'm sure you devs have some of that in mind already, but I had to say it.

[Trevor Gehast]

Mixed feelings on ECM.

It seems to make folks huddle around the ECM boat and then the two teams sneak around the map and it becomes a race to stealth cap or just a silly brawl where the lucky "scout" finds the entire enemy team and becomes slag.

Personally I'd like to see the ECM be limited to only on for a unit when not firing and have at least a 5 second cooldown before it recloaks.

I'm just not a fan of the two extremes in combat that seem to be the norm now.

[F lan Ker]

S!

Just want to chime in and say that ECM should have similar limitations as the radar has. Currently ECM has none. It can jam through buildings and terrain where again the radar breaks lock. LOS requirement as stated in one thread that even TT/BT rules pointed out. Would make ECM a bit more balanced and forcing the ECM boats to get to points where there are as few obstacles as possible for them to broadcast ECM to cover more than just the 180m. Sure they would be more suspectible to snipers etc., but tough job, you are not supposed to be end-it-all but support.

Another thing is that once you slam on an ECM transmitter you become a giant beacon. In real life that is. A distortion that can be seen. Sure the emitter can not be pinpointed but the area for sure. Why is this not implemented? Making it so would give some indication of something coming in thus ECM would be employed only just before contact or when contact is done. Again another tactical thing to consider..should the team broadcast from the start thus giving away their location somewhat or turn it on when really needed. This is how it is used in RL, as needed because it would be revealing you farther away while broadcasting thus negating element of surprise.

Just some thoughts..

Edited by F lan Ker, 06 December 2012 - 05:47 PM.

[Cpt Jason McCarthy]

I leaved the game yesterday because of this last patch, especially because of th ECM, one week ago i was thinking about spending 50$ for mech bays and premium time ... just after 1 month playing ...

Everything in this game has been broken the last few months :

_Graphics : just crap, every maps are hideous with their monochrome filters in comparison to CB videos I saw, especially Forest colony.
Where are the colors ? I see ! Red, Blue, Green ! Just the lasers !

_Performances : fps drop on second OB patch and the last one spent ton of time searching a solution, my GPU is still half loaded but my CPU load increased to 50% to 90% [Vsync here] to finally have 12 fps max instead of 6.

_Forum : too much COD/ Elitists players here, talking about skill every time, when we are in a war simulation... And too much angry people ... like me ...

_Devs : nerfing all the time, not able to make something balanced just making the obvious contrary [Artemis obviously broken at release, phract's cockpit obviously too big at release, UAC 5 obviously too powerful at release, ECM obviously OP at release], and they talk about internal testing ... lies !


And finally I was spending too much time on the forum, was too angry for a stupid game.

Last thing about ECM, learn TT rules, and no I'm not TT player I just played MW3 and the MechAssaults and learned about the Battletech universe last month.

[Stingz]

F lan Ker, on 06 December 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

Another thing is that once you slam on an ECM transmitter you become a giant beacon. In real life that is. A distortion that can be seen. Sure the emitter can not be pinpointed but the area for sure. Why is this not implemented? Making it so would give some indication of something coming in thus ECM would be employed only just before contact or when contact is done. Again another tactical thing to consider..should the team broadcast from the start thus giving away their location somewhat or turn it on when really needed. This is how it is used in RL, as needed because it would be revealing you farther away while broadcasting thus negating element of surprise.

Turn on thermal, you can see giant waves coming off ECM carrying mechs. I've tried it in my Raven, and it's hard to miss with the giant radius ECM puts out.

[Herzog]

One of the biggest problems with ECM is that LRM's have a range of 1000 m, but they're only effective if you get a lock. Your radar is 600 m, so you can self-spot out to 600 m. With ECM now you can only get a lock on an ECM target within 200 meters (or within 250 if you have a TAG) or if your spotter is within 200 meters (and can survive).

If it just took longer to lock or made it easier to break lock, that would be fine, but being completely unable to use a weapon system that has a 210 meter min range is ridiculous.

[F lan Ker]

S!

I see those waves too but I mean also that if an ECM is transmitting it acts like a giant distortion beacon. Sure does disrupt as intended but also makes the transmitter VERY visible on certain systems. So if ECM had this "beacon effect" when on and LOS limitations/requirements then it would be more crucial how, where and when to use it thus adding to the tactical game. Players really could use terrain more to reduce or even negate it's effect.

A simple example. Forest Colony map and 2 Mechs meet in the cave, both without ECM. One ECM boat from each side are down in the shore line or water slugging it off. So what happens in cave? Well, the Mechs could engage and target normally as the ECM does not bore through a mountain nor would it be effective at the cave exit with the boxes as there is a hill between you and the water/shoreline.

If we take same situation with the two Mechs having ECM being inside the cave then only the cave would be affected, but not area down at shoreline or water as again the mountain would block transmission.

I hope this helped to point out what I was thinking of.

[Black Neurot]

I think, ECM is not overpowered in itself.
It just need a fine tweaking.

I mean, I completely agree that a mech under the effect should not be lockable.
However, I think the mech should still be displayed in mini map and in the top compass,
if an hostile have a visual on it and that hostile is out of the ECM zone.

Edited by Black Neurot, 06 December 2012 - 06:10 PM.

[Codejack]

If you've been harassing me all day, please feel free to skip to the dashed line.


In my opinion, ECM is currently vastly overpowered, not least because it exacerbates the gulf between new and veteran players.

SSRMs and LRMs are rendered seriously deficient on any mech that does not carry ECM. The effective range of 180-200m with doubled lock-on time means that most maneuvers of even slow mechs will cross the range in less time than it takes to get a lock, in addition to which LRMs are hurt particularly badly by this because a closing mech will be under their absolute minimum range, so that even if you lock on and fire, the missiles will not do any damage. Ally ECM won't necessarily help because counter mode only works under 180m, as well. TAG is problematic not because of its limited range but because of the extreme difficulty of keeping small, fast targets painted at any distance.

In my opinion, ECM needs:

-A hard decrease in effectiveness; detection range increased substantially and increased lock-on time only against enemy mechs within the bubble, as a start.

and/or

-Partial negation between different electronics, e.g. BAP would counter part of ECM's detection range decrease, while ECM would still increase BAP's lock-on time, just not as much as a non-BAP mech's.

and

-Counter mode changed so that a single ECCM affects all enemy ECM in its area.

I deny bias in this case, while also contending that, if anything, I am benefiting directly from the current implementation, but think that the game as a whole would benefit from a more moderate functionality.

There is nothing important, funny, interesting, or offensive below the dashed line.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Funny story:

I actually hate missiles. I have been playing Mechwarrior video games for 20ish years, and Battletech before that, and missiles have always been my least favorite weapon. Big autocannon, usually on a light/medium with jump jets was my thing; action-hero jumping through the air pumping round after round into my enemies' faces. Medium/large mechs with pulse lasers and various acs were fun, too.

I won a local Netmech tournament one year in a Flea with an AC/10, 1 ton of ammo, jump jets, and the biggest engine I could cram in; 4 man round robin, final score was 23/5/3/1. Of course, almost of the enemy kills were me, but still...

Well, right now, in this game, for some reason about half the time my lag/netcode/whatever is so bad that it is simply impossible for me to hit. I'm sure it will get fixed, but in the meantime, guided weapons are where it's at, and now that ECM is a must have, so I play a Commando. For this, I get called names

[Azantia]

If you play in PUG groups : Dont comment on ECM. A bunch of mechs running around like chickens with their heads cut off who on average do not understand the game, mech builds or team based tactics (I said on average, yes some of you lone wolves "get it", you are the minority.) is not a good basis in which to judge the true effects of ECM.

[FallguySoldier]

Just had an interesting match prior to me posting on here tonight. Basically ran a pug team and no one had ECM, but the enemy team did. Ironically, the one guy they had that did have ECM was actually AFK at their own base! ROFL! So you can imagine my pleasant surprise.

It felt so refreshing to play MW:O just like how it used to prior to the ECM patch. It was an epic battle as everyone was really brawling it out, with each team getting a kill one after the other, until finally ending in our team winning just because the enemy had that one guy (again, the only guy with ECM) disconnected/AFK/whatever. And honestly, I couldn't care less if we won that match, the entire fight just felt so awesome.

But my feelings of joy are short-lived because I know ECM is here to stay and that was just a 1 in a million chance that I got into a match without having to deal with ECMs.

[steelblueskies]

easiest way to tell ecm is imbalanced, through apples to apples.

every other targeting enchancement effect requires visual fov line of sight, instead of tt 360 los to target.

yes boys and girls even bap only enhances range in the direction you are looking, and 360 retention requires you see it before it goes behind you.

ecm however provides 360 degree neutralization.

make it only affect targets in its users fov cone and suddenly its far more balanced against every other function implemented.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Zwietracht, on 06 December 2012 - 01:18 AM, said:

never saw a team with more then one ecm atlas, had several rounds yesterday with not one ecm mech, also saw a lot of lrms around, even some new variations of streak cats (4 ssrm +tag) ... sometimes i wonder if we are really playing the same game.

but actually you guys played just one or two rounds and then made up your judgement...

yeah i've played 7 hours worth now and the fights can vary but the most enjoyable ones are without ecm cause everyone with anything gets a chance to explore fighting tactics. ecm kills the missle boats cause as soon as a team realises it has ecm they all huddle and stealth cap brawling their way through. one team however had ecm and were a full lrm lance. only time i've been on a team that beaten an ecm one cause they camped we flanked them cause lrms are so easy to take cover from and dodge, we slaughtered them. so ecm it'self isn't the whole problem but everyone's exploiting it for the sameme sameme tactics and lrm's are dead. srms and streack can still harrase players outside the bubble so by no means is the streak cat dead, but lrms... dead weight loser builds with little punch and no comebacks. unless you like standing out in the open with tag to be ganged on.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Codejack, on 06 December 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

If you've been harassing me all day, please feel free to skip to the dashed line.


In my opinion, ECM is currently vastly overpowered, not least because it exacerbates the gulf between new and veteran players.

SSRMs and LRMs are rendered seriously deficient on any mech that does not carry ECM. The effective range of 180-200m with doubled lock-on time means that most maneuvers of even slow mechs will cross the range in less time than it takes to get a lock, in addition to which LRMs are hurt particularly badly by this because a closing mech will be under their absolute minimum range, so that even if you lock on and fire, the missiles will not do any damage. Ally ECM won't necessarily help because counter mode only works under 180m, as well. TAG is problematic not because of its limited range but because of the extreme difficulty of keeping small, fast targets painted at any distance.

In my opinion, ECM needs:

-A hard decrease in effectiveness; detection range increased substantially and increased lock-on time only against enemy mechs within the bubble, as a start.

and/or

-Partial negation between different electronics, e.g. BAP would counter part of ECM's detection range decrease, while ECM would still increase BAP's lock-on time, just not as much as a non-BAP mech's.

and

-Counter mode changed so that a single ECCM affects all enemy ECM in its area.

I deny bias in this case, while also contending that, if anything, I am benefiting directly from the current implementation, but think that the game as a whole would benefit from a more moderate functionality.

There is nothing important, funny, interesting, or offensive below the dashed line.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Funny story:

I actually hate missiles. I have been playing Mechwarrior video games for 20ish years, and Battletech before that, and missiles have always been my least favorite weapon. Big autocannon, usually on a light/medium with jump jets was my thing; action-hero jumping through the air pumping round after round into my enemies' faces. Medium/large mechs with pulse lasers and various acs were fun, too.

I won a local Netmech tournament one year in a Flea with an AC/10, 1 ton of ammo, jump jets, and the biggest engine I could cram in; 4 man round robin, final score was 23/5/3/1. Of course, almost of the enemy kills were me, but still...

Well, right now, in this game, for some reason about half the time my lag/netcode/whatever is so bad that it is simply impossible for me to hit. I'm sure it will get fixed, but in the meantime, guided weapons are where it's at, and now that ECM is a must have, so I play a Commando. For this, I get called names

this guy know what he's talking about as far as gameplay is concerned, i chose an lrm boat a while back to try and get out of lag brawls, now it's the biggest mistake ever. i use lasers so that i have a chance of tracking enemies instead of shooting right at the slow freeze frame moments and find my target vanished and a crator that was meant to have "his" name on it.