78 replies to this topic

[Kraven Kor]

Keep in mind the "average repair costs" are still simulated by the "average NET earnings after repair and rearm.

On the surface of this announcement, I don't like it - I think repair and rearm should be a function of the game. Maybe community warfare will see a return of this mechanic in some fashion.

Just a thought.

[PurpleNinja]

Right, but some will largely benefit from this, like me who likes LRMs + Artemis, while others will lose lots of c-bills because of their money friendly builds.

[Kraven Kor]

I do have one question now though... ammo costs?

I mean, technically, you aren't even buying individual missiles right now - the initial purchase is the only money you spend, so there is no longer a cost associated with using stupid amounts of ammo...

*shrug*

[Redshift2k5]

The problem is, it's hard to make a RnR function that is fair to everyone and affordable to everyone.

The 75% rearm was neccesary to make any non-laser build affordable, but was far too easily circumvented to get huge amounts of expensive ammo for free. It was a flawed system.

I'd be fine with RnR if they can ever come up with a version without flaws.

[CoreHunter]

but the 75% required tonnage alocation at least.

[Penance]

Well, from what I see, unless I interpreted it wrong, they're removing the win/loss credit bonus...if that's gone, then RnR needs to go also...that's 100k/75k people loose right off the bat.

Edited by Penance, 17 December 2012 - 10:27 AM.

[Redshift2k5]

Penance, on 17 December 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

Well, from what I see, unless I interpreted it wrong, they're removing the win/loss credit bonus...if that's gone, then RnR needs to go also...that's 100k/75k people loose right off the bat.

RnR is also being removed. Every C-bill you earn is pure profit.

[Ter Ushaka]

This is a good thing. I'm pretty sure the RNR change means being killed in a ferro-fiberious mech will mean you no longer lose money.

[Penance]

Redshift2k5, on 17 December 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

RnR is also being removed. Every C-bill you earn is pure profit.

but we're also making less per match....BRING ON THE GRINDZ

this will be strange.

Edited by Penance, 17 December 2012 - 10:32 AM.

[Ricama]

Redshift2k5, on 17 December 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

The problem is, it's hard to make a RnR function that is fair to everyone and affordable to everyone.

The 75% rearm was neccesary to make any non-laser build affordable, but was far too easily circumvented to get huge amounts of expensive ammo for free. It was a flawed system.

I'd be fine with RnR if they can ever come up with a version without flaws.

You see I actually disagree here, I think spending extra mech resources on something for the metagame is perfectly acceptable. Spending an extra ton and space per 3 tons of ammo is acceptable in my book, it doesn't horribly gimp your mech but it's still suboptimal just so you can avoid rearm costs.

[Chrithu]

Jesus can't we please keep all that stuff in one thread?

Thank you.

Are moderators in these forums actually allowed to merge threads? If yes. Please oh good lord use it. We all would benefit from a bit more moderation.

Take a look on the bethsoft forums. This place (at least the TES section) is marvelous because you don't have to answer 5 threads on any given topic. And they even lock topics at a certain post count so you don't sift through pages upon pages of ever the same stuff being told.

[RG Notch]

Kraven Kor, on 17 December 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

I do have one question now though... ammo costs?

I mean, technically, you aren't even buying individual missiles right now - the initial purchase is the only money you spend, so there is no longer a cost associated with using stupid amounts of ammo...

*shrug*

That's the direction of society in general, no consequences. Apparently consequences aren't fun and thinking or making decisions are also not fun. Getting stuff now and not worrying about it, not that's fun fun fun!

[Darth JarJar]

Kraven Kor, on 17 December 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

I do have one question now though... ammo costs?

I mean, technically, you aren't even buying individual missiles right now - the initial purchase is the only money you spend, so there is no longer a cost associated with using stupid amounts of ammo...

*shrug*

One thing about stupid amounts of ammo is the increased number of critical slots leading to increased chances of an ammo explosion. So, it isn't without its risks to offset its benefits.

[Penance]

actually...just reread the planned changes...there will still be bonuses, just for your place in the standings...

I'm starting to like the changes. They aren't penalizing anyone, and most people will be getting that 7m cbill reward. They're making the game new player friendly and not having RNR, although sad to see a mechanic like that go, puts more focus on building / tweaking mechs and buying them as opposed to being a mechaccountant. Almost turns the game into the older titles, I don't think RNR costs were in them.

It's a little arcade, and a little sim.

They won't be able to cater to TT players 100%, nor to casuals 100%, I think they're really trying hard to find that place between both.

Edited by Penance, 17 December 2012 - 10:41 AM.

[One Medic Army]

I liked the idea of Repair&Rearm.
The problem is that in practice it led to cost-heavy builds being essentially reserved for team play and premium accounts.
Not to mention the gaming of the system that occurred, and how some builds had to rely on 75% free ammo entirely.

[Agent of Change]

Kraven Kor, on 17 December 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Keep in mind the "average repair costs" are still simulated by the "average NET earnings after repair and rearm.

On the surface of this announcement, I don't like it - I think repair and rearm should be a function of the game. Maybe community warfare will see a return of this mechanic in some fashion.

Just a thought.

Let's hope, but unless they are actually mitigating the "net gains" based on the type of chassis and tech in your mech then they are losing an entire balancing mechanic inherent to MW. Re: IF it's expensive to maintain it's gonna be expensive to lose, don't run it if you can't afford to lose it.

[Jman5]

I never liked the concept of balancing upgrades and items by increasing the repair/re-arm costs. Having a crippling repair cost does not help the guy who just got slaughtered by your god tier weapon. Furthermore, you risk getting into a pay 2 win scenario where the only people can afford to equip a really good weapon are people with premium bonuses.

I'm glad they are doing away it all together.

[8RoundsRapid]

As we haven't played the game yet with the new system, I don't think any of us can make informed statements about the effect the removal of R&R will have on the game. My initial gut instinct was that I didn't like it, as now the tech2 gear will be clearly advantageous, whereas before there was a good reason to run an ac5 instead of an uac5, or regular large lasers as opposed to er large lasers, and so on.

Oh well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I guess I'll have to redesign my mechs to take advantage of this.

[Moonsavage]

We're Mercs, people... Evidently our employers are paying for the Ammo and Repairs.

Read the small print, sheesh.

[Joseph Mallan]

Penance, on 17 December 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

but we're also making less per match....BRING ON THE GRINDZ

this will be strange.

Unless you are playing in a Trial Mech. This is a good thing, if not over generous. But will we see more 9Ms blowing up in matches now?

Quote

Read the small print, sheesh.

And read it closely! Cause if the Client is giving you a freebee it ultimately costs you dearly!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 December 2012 - 10:51 AM.