96 replies to this topic

[Tooooonpie]

Thanks for all the feedback and discussions guys!

Edited by Tooooonpie, 29 October 2013 - 05:46 PM.

[luxebo]

It's a mixture of everything I assume. I sometimes have this problem. Sometimes I take control of the command feature to stop this from happening. Maybe how do you play as well? All different factors mixed can create a terrible environment, but don't blame everything on them, maybe they're stuck in a fight outnumbered or doomed, etc. Just play better, command better, and organize the pugs (more like herd in some cases.) I played a few very terrible games before, like this one where for some reason the enemy team started a civil war (killed each other and the last man suicided using override.) and we won before getting to the first cap in Crimson Strait, funny but just terrible for a good reason.

[Johnny Marek Summers]

Hey I care. It's just that I am usually in a light. Well once I download the patch and get my Pheonix mechs I can be in something bigger.

But in all my earlier matches I was in a Jenner and even a Jenner simply cannot stop a cap by a Centurion, a Dragon, and up to two other random mechs. Once there was a Cataphract on cap, and it was Assault!

[Xeno Phalcon]

Well to be fair its hard to read the little blue text while fighting or keeping a eye on your seroundings, especially for lights booking it at 140+kph. That being said, pugs dont listen very well anyways, hell I was repeatedly telling my team that we were being flanked by six assaults/heavies and should abandon theta long enough to dog pile them, they did not and everyone was soon dead but my little locust.

(I said screw it and gave a cataphract a hug to end it all)

[MortVent]

tunnel vision, plus the difficulties of chat in combat.

Many times the messages are lost during combat, you don't even see them on screen till after you die.

Other times you're dealing with deathmatch mindset players in a tactical game..

[Straylight]

Extenuating circumstances like being pinned down by enemy fire aside, I see two main factors contributing to miserable PUGs:

1) "That's somebody else's problem". There's a mentality, particularly among fast Heavy and slow Assault pilots, that their job is to simply slug it out with other big 'mechs and that they're allowed to ignore anything else. That's fine until there's a job that needs doing, and they're the only one in position to do it, and then they DON'T. I've watched Assaults plod straight past friendly bases that were being capped by enemies, and I've dragged enemy Lights straight through the crosshairs of my entire team only to have not a single one of them take what amounts to a free shot.

However, it may not be entirely the players' attitudes and mentality to blame here. That's because...

2) You're too damn slow! This is more obvious on big maps like Terra and Alpine, but it's an issue even on Canyon. When all you've got is 64kph, all you can really do is lumber forward and shoot at the other big, slow guys lumbering toward you. If you pull off the line of engagement to deal with something going on somewhere else, you've effectively taken yourself out of the match; whatever you're reacting to is going to be over by the time you get to it, and the rest of the match is going to be over by the time you get back.

This isn't to say that enormous, slow, walking walls of guns don't have their place. They do. The problem arises when your team looks like this:

Alpha Lance: AS7-D-DC, CTF-IM, CTF-4X, CN9-A(C)

Bravo Lance: CTF-IM, CPLT-A1(C), STK-5S, HBK-4G

Charlie Lance: JM6-S, AS7-D, TBT-7M, SDR-5D

Looks familiar, don't it, puggers? The problem is this rosters lacks speed. Between the desire for moar dakka and the need to run standard engines on some 'mechs just for survivability, almost nothing in this roster is running a top-spec engine. If that team drops on, say, River, and both teams circle counter-clockwise, they're going to be halfway to the enemy base when the enemy's fast elements reaches their base, so turning around would just cost more time. This is what creates those cap races we all hate so much. And try as their might, a lone Bucket and Spider just can't be everywhere at once, and the two of them is hardly going to slow an enemy bull rush down.

[Harkonis]

Might be better if we had some kind of limits on who could drop in what so we didn't end up with either a swarm of all small fast mechs or a horde of slow sluggers.

[Bhelogan]

Yea, most PUGs don't listen well. Sometimes though, they are a 4 man, and if your pugging, your the one not listening. If your sounding whiny in chat too, then people may tend to not listen. From my experience, the best way to get PUGs to follow, is to be in a 4 man group and move together. Typically with 4 moving, you have enough critical mass that they will follow.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

Drop weight limits are coming Soon ™. They're focussing on getting community warfare out of the gates first.

[Bolfry]

Though drop weights would be nice, I have to agree with another opinion more: typing while in this sort of a situation is near impossible. I can't say how many times I tried to warn the team I was seeing a large group on the flank from my light mech and got taken out...we need built in voice chat. DDO has it...why not here where it would be really needed? Sure there are some who abuse it or misuse it, but I feel its a necessary add - even MORE than drop weights. A batch of coordinated lights could take out a mostly heavy group...

Just my two bits.

[scJazz]

Straylight, on 16 October 2013 - 03:48 AM, said:

1) "That's somebody else's problem".

The "Someone" Syndrome! Probably, the busiest guy in the game. Someone has to CAP, someone needs to defend base, someone needs to hold locks. There are games where I want to change my name to "Someone". Look if you have the spare time to see that "Someone" needs to do something and actually type it then... you are someone! Either that or you are already dead and of no help to anyone.

Not picking on you really just saying.

[Denolven]

Quote

Why Does Nobody Listen In Pugs?

• most people don't care about other people, welcome to the human nature of ignorance
  
• ingame communication pretty much doesn't exist, technically - so those few who actually care don't really have a chance to communicate

[Mc JR]

Denolven, on 16 October 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

• most people don't care about other people, welcome to the human nature of ignorance
  
• ingame communication pretty much doesn't exist, technically - so those few who actually care don't really have a chance to communicate

^^ this hits it on the head.

[Kraven Kor]

"I have bogies at... @#$% I died while trying to type."

I do try to *listen* to chat when PUGging, so long as the person typing is not clearly insane and/or bad, and will occasionally offer some intel or advice when there are not more pressing concerns, but it is not easy.

[Corison]

Tooooonpie, on 15 October 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

But seriously, its as if these people in PUGS don't actually understand that if the base is being capped, or we are down 4 caps to our 1, then we are going to lose - Its like playing with blind mentally handicapped children with a part of the brain that doesn't comprehend basic thought

Couple easy ones.. want to cap my base? Go for it, cap rushers are twits wasting everyone's time. I would much rather lose in good brawl than play cap warrior. Heck even losing I still make more exp/cash than winning via cap if I get in a good brawl. IMO the only time to cap is when you have lost the brawl, or there's a single light hiding in a corner shutdown.

Even in pugs you should get fairly close to 50/50 w/l ratio. Unless you get a bad series of drops against 4-8 man teams but those tend to average out.

As for calling out caps? Good idea, just doesn't mean much.
-) PGI's UI Is horrid, not only did they do silly things like blue text, but it fades very fast.
-) Not everyone can read English.
-) Many configs are to slow to go chasing cappers. Easier to counter cap and defend.
-) People get tunnel vision, blowing things up is more fun than capping.

If they ever add real in-game voice it may improve things for PUG's but don't count on it. My best recommendation is to hop onto TS or get in a solid 4 man drop. Even if its a random group from one of the TS servers it will improve your experience a lot.

Edited by Corison, 16 October 2013 - 06:02 AM.

[Dan Nashe]

Because after running off to cap and encountering 2-3 other light mechs while watching your team still lose the brawl and then being out capped you realize there's a crapton more xp and cbills for losing a brawl than for winning a cap game.

Capping is a crapshoot. You might end up outnumbered 3:1 or never see an enemy until the game ends after capping non stop and still lose.

Or your team might win 12-0 kils. You just gained 1/4 the cbills you'd have made fighting (and xp as you were out capping.

Join the fight and you'll see action and maybe affect the outcome.
Nothing is more frustrating than going off to cap and watching the enemy rack up kills.. knowing that gathering 700 resources will be a 100 xp 35, 000 cbill loss.

I play lights, I cap.. but there's a balance. Losing the rest of your team before you get to 500 is a loss either way.
And anyways, the other side was a pug too. I've seen plenty of premades not cap. There's a perception bias here.

Edited by DanNashe, 16 October 2013 - 06:37 AM.

[scJazz]

DanNashe, on 16 October 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

There's a perception bias here.

Quoting for Truth!

[Sadistic Savior]

Tooooonpie, on 15 October 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

Every PUG i've been put in, every single last bloody one we always lose on caps

Because capping is boring. Most people do not play this game to cap.

Quote

But seriously, its as if these people in PUGS don't actually understand that if the base is being capped, or we are down 4 caps to our 1, then we are going to lose

...except that if you kill the other team, you still win. Even if they have more caps. Thats why no one cares about capping.

CW will probably change this. But for now. this is team deathmatch, and no one wants to play Cap Warrior Online.

Quote

What the heck is going on? Am I just unlucky, in EOL hell, what?

You are demanding and pushy. You are trying to get people to play the game in a way that is un-fun for them. And you are doing so with no real authority. So you are in for a lot of frustration.

Capping IMO is always a secondary objective. Killing is a primary objective. It is more fun and likely to be more effective.

Edited by Sadistic Savior, 16 October 2013 - 06:54 AM.

[Sephlock]

Tooooonpie, on 15 October 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

Every PUG i've been put in, every single last bloody one we always lose on caps - I look at places geting capped, I type in chat, heck even spam it in chat so people actually see it since I understand its hard to notice it when fighting.

But seriously, its as if these people in PUGS don't actually understand that if the base is being capped, or we are down 4 caps to our 1, then we are going to lose - Its like playing with blind mentally handicapped children with a part of the brain that doesn't comprehend basic thought

What the heck is going on? Am I just unlucky, in EOL hell, what?

If I wasn't lazy I'd find a clip of the first time Lelouch tired to command people (no one listened, and they got pwnt).

[Stijnovic]

In my experience, PUGs are actually quite responsive to the things I say in the chat. Actually, I hardly ever give orders, I just share information, keep it short, people are smart enough to figure out for themselves what they want to do. Also confirming other peoples suggestions helps a lot. I only play PUG games yet have a 1.2 win/loss ratio.

Also, waiting 30 seconds at your base with a full lance makes for a quick advantage in case of enemy cap-warriors...