207 replies to this topic

[Jetfire]

Funny, I am actually have a lot more repeatable and challenging experience. Matches often feel close even if it ends 8/0 as the other team is often practically cored on every surviving mech. The more I play the better is seems to be, so mission practically accomplished PGI. Now just tune the tonnage better and we are gold for a match maker.

[JSparrowist]

SlXSlXSlX, on 23 February 2013 - 01:51 AM, said:

This is a clear summary, that I posted in another thread. I felt it might get buried amongst teh many posts there in, so I decided to turn it into a thread of it's own.

So you are wondering why a week ago you were winning alot, and you and your 3 friends were having so much more fun than you are today?????

Let me break it down for you.

___________________________________________________________________________
You were winning not because of your skill, but rather because the old enviroment allowed you to win by stacking for moderately skilled players, versus completely new players/terrible players.

As such your stats rose.

Now the match maker thinks your good because your stats say so.

This is afallacy. You are not good, nor were you ever. You were jsut ganging up on floundering infants to the world of min/max builds, and focus fire.

Now your getting paired versus lone wolves, that have been going toe to toe with you, as they get paired with the terrible players, for weeks/months. That level of competition has made them good, but they still lost because they had saddle bags (new players) not in 4 mans.

Now the saddle bags are off, and the match maker thinks they are bad because their stats reflect it. So what you get is, good players with bad stats + great players with great stats... versus you, a 4 man that never got any better, due to your soft competition.

As such, you will lose, alot. And, you deserve to. You elevated yourselves beyond your station, and until match maker realizes that you are not that good, ie, until your stats take a considerable hit, and look much worse, it will continue.

You, unable to accept this reality have turned to the forums, to share your tears.

Fortunately, I am here and happy, to break it all down for you.

Enjoy your well deserved losses, you have alot of catching up to do..

Good news: this will be painful, but you will finally begin to get better. It will all even out, your new stats, as you grow and improve. If you cannot improve, than you are forever destined to be BAD @ MECHS.

More good news: You've made my night. Sweet dreams. Enjoy your day of losses tomorrow, if you do not outright uninstall, becuse your pride (inflated) cannot bear the reality, that you are not that good.

_________________________________________________________________________

Now this may seem harsh, but it had to be said. Think if this as your intervention (cue bells) for your misguided opinions on teh meta today.

I'm sorry. The truth can hurt. But its better you hear it from me, than rage quit and go play Hawken. I want to save you. You can reflect on this, as you pick up your boot straps, and adapt/learn/evolve. I believe in you.

Cheers

TL DR? If you like the image below, go back to the top and read the entire post.

WELL SAID! I agree 100%!

[Mercules]

JSparrowist, on 25 February 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

WELL SAID! I agree 100%!

http://mwomercs.com/...-making-update/

[Tombstoner]

This new system is the best thing to happen to the game since..... i cant remember. i have been on the fence about quitting for a while now since ECM went live. Now the game play i am encountering is orders of magnitude better than before. i don't care about stats i just want a few good matches for a few hours every so often. now i'm getting them. This one feature has increased the likely hood of long term success. cheese fights cheese and new players get to learn against new players. this gives the game a chance to suck them in and when they get better the games is bound to grow.

[JSparrowist]

Mercules, on 25 February 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...-making-update/

Thanks....?


OP is right...about everything. Period.

[Mercules]

JSparrowist, on 25 February 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

Thanks....?


OP is right...about everything. Period.

So his claims based off faulty understanding that Elo is not yet working fully is correct? The post I linked is a developer stating Elo is not yet working fully but will be getting better in a few months. So claiming Elo is matching people up correctly right now is wrong. Period.

[JSparrowist]

Mercules, on 25 February 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

So his claims based off faulty understanding that Elo is not yet working fully is correct? The post I linked is a developer stating Elo is not yet working fully but will be getting better in a few months. So claiming Elo is matching people up correctly right now is wrong. Period.

My matches have been fantastic and I happen to agree with OP entirely. First hand experience speaks volumes. Perhaps you should play the game some time.

[Kaeb Odellas]

silentD11, on 25 February 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

Well since you've been playing since July you should know that prior to ECM there were other builds that everyone ran. This game has never been at a point where a handful of builds, weapons, whatever didn't completely outclass everything else and those who knew what they were ran them. We can roll back to any point in the games history since closed beta and there was always something (gausscats, streak cats, lag shields, 128kph hunch backs, LRM boats) that was being screamed about.

Things have actually improved in most aspects. From frame rate, reducing lag shields, making more weapons viable, it's all become much better. The one main gripe, ECM, was something that actually somewhat fixed the issue of "streaks and LRMs, as much as you can, always hit, soooo easy" which would come roaring back if you got rid of ECM.

Given that other things were slowly fixed by buffing (balastics, ppcs, larger lasers), fixed by removing the bugs (lag shield), or flat out hard countered because they were out of hand (SSRMS, LRMS) there's reason to believe that ECM will eventually be fixed along the same lines. Most things have been.

ECM is a bit heavy handed in that while it helped bring SSRMS and LRMS back into a non abusive manner, it had all sorts of secondary impacts that skew things, but it's still better than where things were before (unless you ran nothing but SSRMS and LRMS in which case shut up). We also know that collisions are coming back, but let's not forget the issue of dragons being run like bowling balls to the point where you could pin someone on the ground eternally.

Like I said, there have been some great patches with fantastic improvements, but somehow it gets tempered by the addition of new rank bullcrap. Removing collision was not in any way necessary. Dragon bowling was only an issue because they gave it the weight of an Atlas for some reason. I would rather get knocked on my *** all day than see another flock of Ravens circle strafing and bouncing off each other without a care in the world. Make those guys actually work for their kills, please.

LRMs could be tempered by just improving AMS. ECM was not in any way necessary for that. ECM did kill the Streak Cat, but that just led to the even more dangerous Splatcat. It also completely broke Light mech balance. Granted, the Jenner was king pre-ECM, but at least other lights could still put up a fight. Your only option against a Raven 3L is to simply run away.

Anyways, that post was mostly a reaction to the OP's cheeky "hur hur play better" attitude towards the Elo system, which is clearly messed up if it's giving matches such wild tonnage disparities and encouraging cheese builds. I guess I should learn to ignore self-indulgent wankery in the future.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 February 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

Let me tell you what I learned about My skills... As a Lawman I have a Win/Loss just over 60%. As a PUG this weekend I have a 45% win percentage.

Joe,

This thread definately applies to you then. Hope you read it closely.

Tombstoner, on 25 February 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

This new system is the best thing to happen to the game since..... i cant remember. ... the games is bound to grow.

True story.

[Muffinator]

SlXSlXSlX, on 23 February 2013 - 01:51 AM, said:

As such, you will lose, alot. And, you deserve to.

I 50/50 pug / small group and I/we have been doing heaps better since ELO came in.

[Mercules]

JSparrowist, on 25 February 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

My matches have been fantastic and I happen to agree with OP entirely. First hand experience speaks volumes. Perhaps you should play the game some time.

I have, but anecdotal evidence is still anecdotal evidence. I have played and enjoyed the game, did before Elo, still do.

What I am trying to say though is that there is no evidence to support that your recent matches and the OP's recent matches have ANYTHING to do with Elo. The developers are telling us the system is not fully operational yet and it will get more accurate as more data is collected. Good... bad... any experience you are having is not because Elo is magical and works without without a ton of data gathered.

Yes, it does appear to have balanced some people out, but to claim it is working 100% is fallacious when the people who made it are TELLING you it isn't working 100%. In order for Elo to be causing the effects the OP is stating it would have to be working 100%. Right now it is just coincidental.

[KharnZor]

KinLuu, on 25 February 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

You did not complain when I carried you though.

I feel the MM should be more restrictive when pairing up players of different Elo ratings. There should be a maximum allowed difference.

He aint heavy, he's my brotherrrrr

[Zylo]

Bubba Wilkins, on 25 February 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

K/D isn't really a good indicator either since play-style across different chassis and roles results in different rates of K/D.

A brawler Assault is going to have a lower K/D than an LRM based Catapult.

Really?

A good brawler assault can easily finish their kills. If they use cover and spread damage they should easily have a better K/D ratio than a missile boat.

Now maybe a SNIPER would have a better K/D than that brawler assault...

[PropagandaWar]

SlXSlXSlX, on 23 February 2013 - 01:51 AM, said:

This is a clear summary, that I posted in another thread. I felt it might get buried amongst teh many posts there in, so I decided to turn it into a thread of it's own.

So you are wondering why a week ago you were winning alot, and you and your 3 friends were having so much more fun than you are today?????

Let me break it down for you.

___________________________________________________________________________
You were winning not because of your skill, but rather because the old enviroment allowed you to win by stacking for moderately skilled players, versus completely new players/terrible players.

As such your stats rose.

Now the match maker thinks your good because your stats say so.

This is afallacy. You are not good, nor were you ever. You were jsut ganging up on floundering infants to the world of min/max builds, and focus fire.

Now your getting paired versus lone wolves, that have been going toe to toe with you, as they get paired with the terrible players, for weeks/months. That level of competition has made them good, but they still lost because they had saddle bags (new players) not in 4 mans.

Now the saddle bags are off, and the match maker thinks they are bad because their stats reflect it. So what you get is, good players with bad stats + great players with great stats... versus you, a 4 man that never got any better, due to your soft competition.

As such, you will lose, alot. And, you deserve to. You elevated yourselves beyond your station, and until match maker realizes that you are not that good, ie, until your stats take a considerable hit, and look much worse, it will continue.

You, unable to accept this reality have turned to the forums, to share your tears.

Fortunately, I am here and happy, to break it all down for you.

Enjoy your well deserved losses, you have alot of catching up to do..

Good news: this will be painful, but you will finally begin to get better. It will all even out, your new stats, as you grow and improve. If you cannot improve, than you are forever destined to be BAD @ MECHS.

More good news: You've made my night. Sweet dreams. Enjoy your day of losses tomorrow, if you do not outright uninstall, becuse your pride (inflated) cannot bear the reality, that you are not that good.

_________________________________________________________________________

Now this may seem harsh, but it had to be said. Think if this as your intervention (cue bells) for your misguided opinions on teh meta today.

I'm sorry. The truth can hurt. But its better you hear it from me, than rage quit and go play Hawken. I want to save you. You can reflect on this, as you pick up your boot straps, and adapt/learn/evolve. I believe in you.

Cheers

TL DR? If you like the image below, go back to the top and read the entire post.

LMAO I still dont Suck sorry 666. Oh but the games are harder and a lot more fuuunnnnn

[SlXSlXSlX]

PropagandaWar, on 25 February 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

LMAO I still dont Suck sorry 666. Oh but the games are harder and a lot more fuuunnnnn

Glad to hear. Keep enjoying the games. Sounds like your ELO rank is high, and your enjoying the challenges Elaine is affording you. I appreciate that you can back up your ELO with skills on par. Dont think I am attacking you. You shoud read post #3. I think it applies to you.

o7

Muffinator, on 25 February 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

I 50/50 pug / small group and I/we have been doing heaps better since ELO came in.

Again, see post #3.

People, read th ewhole thread before you post in it please. This OP is directed at teh stat padders, whos skill cant back up their ELO with an equal level of skill. They blame Elaine, and they blame their pub teammates. It is not directed at everyone. Pleae read it closely. To those who have a matching skill/ELO rate, I salute you.

Edited by SlXSlXSlX, 25 February 2013 - 05:19 PM.

[Gaden Phoenix]

I find in ELO when me and my friend play, the more we win the more we get placed against good teams or good players and the more we get lower ELO players our own team. It has gotten to a point that me and my friend are encouraged (if we want to win, which we do) to take a more active role in ensuring:

1. Ensure team take cover from LRMs
2. Ensure team stick together
3. Ensure team fight at strategic locations
5. Ensure team rush in at a strategic time
6. NOT RUN LIKE ....... if they get hit abit
7. Stop standing on hills like free targets (Please learn how to peek a boo)
8. Actually provide ECM cover if we got ECM mechs (like super seldom I do not know why)
9. Beg people to listen and play reasonably

I would have thought that at with ELO both teams will be more or less even. I admit with ELO I go get great teams and ever great people willing to lead. But on the other hand we something gets extremely disorganised and "not quite good" players. I sometime wish for the days in which you know both team will be 80% bad.

Also I still get alot of assaults that should "get a feel of their mech class" more. I cry when I see medium mechs at the top of the leader board an assaults doing less then 100 dmg (still see such players in ELO matches alot). Especially when I have seen great assault player and the vast difference bad and good assault players make in a team.

Also Really how does ELO work. Does it match player by player (class by class or just across classes), total team by team, etc? I still find ELO very unbalanced.

For example it will be extremely unbalanced if Elo matches just by player to player. With a High ELO player on your team playing a Cent while on the other team their high Elo player is playing a Atlas...It feels that way to me sometimes.

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 25 February 2013 - 05:54 PM.

[SlXSlXSlX]

A highly skilled player in a cent can definately give a highly skilled player in a atlas a run for their money.

You sir, need to read this entire thread.

http://mwomercs.com/...78#entry1953278

Pay partiicular attention to the first picture.

Edited by SlXSlXSlX, 25 February 2013 - 06:05 PM.

[Gaden Phoenix]

By the by SixSixSix, great game. Yea I hate it too when my team Atlas(s) do crap dmg. That is the whole point, I find it sad when the cent gots 500 dmg and the atlas does <100 dmg... It is like soooo wrong and a waste of an assault slot.

I think Lynx7725 says it best:
Lynx7725, on 24 February 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:
"Hmm. What bothers me about ELO -- or Elaine -- is that I don't like the way they seemed to have placed two high ELO players into a group with 6 somewhat lower ELO, and then thrown the whole mix against another group that appears to have similar ELO for each member (based on match scores) or 1 high and the rest are average."

This too is my main point of contention. I sometimes feel ELO is fail when the other team got a averaged out team and your own team has 1 or 2 really good players and the rest are just...., especially if they play higher weigh class mechs..

It is even worst when my friend and I are the higher ELO player. Since I am not really that good and all.

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 25 February 2013 - 06:21 PM.

[Ihasa]

SlXSlXSlX, on 24 February 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

When I first posted, I was accused of the same. Trace back my posts and youll see this is 100% true. Until a founder said, no, i saw him playing, he jsut dies alot and is to oaggressive, something to that extent, everything I said was shut down by, your a fraud, get your main.

I was accused of being an alt of Vassago Rain.

That said you dfinately dont type like a new player, making his first post. Ifit looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it probably is. I know I was the exception, and perhaps you are too, but its pretty reasonable to assume you a founder, posting on his alt.

Ill jsut assume your legit. If youd like to argue, I will oblige you. But before you do, feel free to scope out my start on these forums, the thread is/was called "your killing yourself" I believe. It, and most of my threads, have kindly been relocated to Jettisoned communications. I never go there, and hope those threads are doing well.

So what shall we discuss?

Just because someone is new to the game doesn't mean they are new to discourse. The two are completely unrelated and reek of strawman.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Dont come at me quoting logical fallaciy arguments. I told him, I was treated that way when I started posting, and said Ill jstu assume you are telling the truth so lets debate, and he never came back. Or did he, on a different account? Hard to say. Point is, I opened the comm channel with that post, and am waiting for his reply. Please try to refrain from mischaracterizing my posts.

Ihasa, on 25 February 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

Just because someone is new to the game doesn't mean they are new to discourse. The two are completely unrelated and reek of strawman.