207 replies to this topic

[ChrisOrange]

oh look this is on the page one again :c)

six pro bumper :c)

Edited by ChrisOrange, 25 February 2013 - 06:59 PM.

[JSparrowist]

Best thread ever!

[SlXSlXSlX]

JSparrowist, on 25 February 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

Best thread ever!

You may be right. What does a star next to an OP mean?

[SlXSlXSlX]

Cathy, on 25 February 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Hard and pants, should not be used in the same sentance..

Edit:

On a Serious note, ELO is likely to be one of the things that saves this games longevity, not any fun trying to learn which way is up, as a newbie, only to be wiped 20 seconds later, that experience is only going to end in this game sucks I'll go play WoT.

Its not perfect it has flaws, lots of them, infact, but this weekend has had me playing 3 days straight, unlike when I bought the access, to closed beta..

I still don't think WMO should be open beta though...still to much missing..

Cathy, by and large I agree with you, but you as a WoTer know as well as I do, even with a decent match maker landslides can still occur, its murphies law what can happen will. I think tanks has a pretty good MM, and point to it here pretty often. Yet I have seen some tank matches end in shutouts. I think when I played it exclusively I saw that every other month once, but here, especially pre Elaine, 8-0 was more of the common occurrance, than the rare and gratifying exp. it is in tanks.

Would you agree?

Im not saying Elaine is perfect. Heck look at her dance.



But she is trying. You can tell she is trying, even if its a little painful to watch.

[KharnZor]

SlXSlXSlX, on 25 February 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

look at her dance.

Its all i can do now....cant seem to drag my eyes away

[SlXSlXSlX]

KharnZor, on 25 February 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

Its all i can do now....cant seem to drag my eyes away

Sorry. That was a little painful to watch. Heres a documentary on the day in the life of a tool. Apparently I am a tool, the stat padders have labeled me as such, but what they dont realize, is being a tool....... can be pretty cool....

[Greyfyl]

If I could kiss the OP I would. This is certainly post of the month worthy.

[Mercules]

His premise is still flawed. The Devs have stated Elo is not fully fleshed out yet and will need a month or two of stats to match people correctly. Yes people with GROSSLY inflated stats from the short period of data gathering 'might' notice it. What is really happening is that we were all somewhere around the middle with a few toward the outer ends. When Elo fires up you will see a sharp swing towards the middle for everyone and then it will expand back out. Even those not padding their stats and the horrible players are going to swing toward the middle at the start and then swing back out, they will just make the outward swing a bit quicker than the others.

So those guys having a horrible experience with Elo may just be getting really random matches because all our scores haven't drifted enough from the center.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Mercules, on 26 February 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Yes people with GROSSLY inflated stats from the short period of data gathering 'might' notice it.

Might?

There are alot of threads which assert it is a little more than "might". In fact, its pretty much th ecornerstone of gen chat today, that they cannot fathom why it is happening, like Elaine is conspiring against them or something. I hope this thread gets semi infrequent bumps back to page one, because alot of them need to read it.

[Mercules]

Yes, "might". Why? Because right now the matches are still pretty random so they might notice a consistent set of losses to counteract their inflated Elo because they MIGHT actually get matched correctly.

To quote a Mathew Craig referring to poorly balanced matches:

Quote

It will take time for the ratings to stabilize please bear in mind that this will likely happen over weeks not days. Also it's important to clarify that the system is only using your match history since we announced that we enabled it for pre-seeding. If you've been with us since closed beta your skill rating is essentially a few weeks old and only based on what you've done in that time. This is the only way to be fair to everyone.

Also currently after 2 minutes you may get an unbalanced match as the match maker increases the thresholds dramatically to ensure you get a match this is as designed to ensure that you don't wait longer than 2 minutes to find a match.

Some of people getting stomped or games where they seem like gods is Elo expanding the parameters to include those that are vastly more or less skilled than they.

[Roland]

Honestly, I haven't really noticed a huge change in my experience at all. The biggest change I've noted is that I'll see the same folks playing in game after game, which would seem to suggest that the system is doing some sort of effective matching.

Overall, I like it.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Mercules, on 26 February 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

Yes, "might". Why? Because right now the matches are still pretty random so they might notice a consistent set of losses to counteract their inflated Elo because they MIGHT actually get matched correctly.

To quote a Mathew Craig referring to poorly balanced matches:



Some of people getting stomped or games where they seem like gods is Elo expanding the parameters to include those that are vastly more or less skilled than they.

Yes I agree. Ive said it before and will say it again, a MM system is only as good as the variables available to work with. This is why the Elaine argument is so important, balance will grow the community, thus providing more variables to throw into the formula.

Go look at teh post where a guy asserts it is his right to win 80% of the time, b/c he says hes pro, and that new players should lose 80% of the time, that they deserve it. Guys like him, their the kind of guys that stifle community growth, and I cant even begin to say how running his argument through my head....

hes bad. Err. Hes a bad sport.

Edited by SlXSlXSlX, 26 February 2013 - 10:29 AM.

[SlXSlXSlX]

______________________________________________________________________________
Final Post of SLXSLXSLX 02-26-2013
______________________________________________________________________________

To all whom it may concern, and to all whom it may please. I am officially resigning form the forum wars thta is general chat.. and let me tell you why.

Warning: This may be a little long.

When I first started playing MWO ECM did not exist, nor did Elo (Elaine). Then, we had less mechs, less maps, well one less. We had LRM spam so heavy, it blotted out the sun on Caustic. We had 4 mans, winning almost all their matches, and most new players, came and went within the same week. Fodder does not a happy new player make. So, I made a post. A post that got alot of flames. I called it "Killing yourself".. the mods have since then renamed it, and then relocated it (twice).

Here it is.

http://mwomercs.com/...lx-suggestions/

In it I stated I thought the game was hurting itself in three ways, weapon imbalance, premade dominance, and staying true to TT rules at the detriment of balance. 3 points, and I stated them pretty clearly. In it I was then called a fraud, I was called an alt of Vassago Rain, and I was trolled with impunity. I got mad, and fired back, and at times lost my cool head and got pretty harsh. It was the first, but not last time, I lost myself in the anger that can come from these e-fights.

I saw what I felt was little to no one arguing the same points as me, and believed they needed argued. I was afraid this game would dissolve away, and lacking a sufficient population, disappear. Somethings I liked about the game, and the ones I pointed out, I detested. You could sayI was spoiled in WoT, it already had a mm, and balance was sought patch to patch (*cough* russian bias-- but ill let that one go). It was night and day for me, a top 3% wot player, to come here and see so much imbalance. I felt at the time, MWO was terminal, but also, I believed it was worth saving. On the forums, I saw no voices arguing for the points I believed needed addressed to change MWO's path.. to make it the most popular MWO it could possibly be. Today I see change. Today I see posters like Thirdstar, Docbach, and Sturm. Decent players who argue for honor.Decent men in mwo, and presumably equally decent men in the real world. Some of those same posters have even posted in this thread. Read what they say carefully, and respectfully consider what they have to say.

Today I sit here, a happy man. Why? Well lets look back at my three original posts.. premades, imbalanced weapons, and TT constraints.

1. Elaine has come, and she is a beautiful system which seems to only be getting better every day, as she continues to collect data on MWO players. 4 man teams, while still 1/2 a public match team, are far far less likely today to win all their fights in mech warrior today. You can see this in the many threads currently dominating the general chat. I am elated to see that not only have the days of 4 man dominance ended, but also that the ones who used those lances to artifically inflate their stats are paying for it dearly. Their many threats that they will quit are jsut that, idle threats. They arnt leaving, theyre jsut being forced to realize that they won so much before, more becuse of a lack of an effective match maker, and les becuase of their own merit or skill.

To see this spilled out across many threads, and it is wonderful.


2. Today, LRM warrior online is a thing of the past. The dark ages, post artemis, pre ECM, are now just a bad memory. Today, I see a huge variety of builds, that were less prevaelnt than when I first joined. Some may be less viable than others, but today I truely believe, weapon balance is far improved. I hope PGI continues to strive to that end. Misssle Warrior online and streak warrior online, I truely believe, this game will never be. Today I see weapon balance, like i never did then. Auto aim never miss missles, ssrms, are not "everywhere" anymore. LRM's no longer dominate the battlefield.

3. Finally TT rules. Every journey begins witha single step. Here, this step was basing values off of the TT numbers from an old board game called Battle Tech. I never played it, but know alot more about it thanwhen I first installed MWO. The problems were apparent, and some still exist. Those sumbers were based on turns, and in a FPS, where you can guarantee hits with precision, as opposed to dice rolls, some of the numbers created imbalance. Since I joined, a number of the TT values, the way things work, such as ECM, have changed to make the current game more fun, more balanced. It upsets some, that it is not a direct port of BT to MWO thatthey hoped for, but they have to understand, the primary concern here is a balanced 2013 FPS, first.

Today I believe PGI understands that.
____________________________________________________________________________________

So I made those three points originally arguing if they didnt change the community number would shrink. Look at the 7000+ tournie entrants. That, is not shrinkage. And trust me, I know what shrinkage looks like... Is it cold in here? Well changes have been made, and as a result, look at how the community numbers have swelled.

Today I no longer believe MWO is terminal, I no longer belive MWO is "killing itself", I no longer believe MWO caters to the few, at the expense of the masses. Today fun can be had, by pubbers, by team players in the 8 man queue seeking a pro v pro experience, and by some 4 mans, the ones that are really good, not the ones that used that mechanic to pad stats they couldnt have achieved alone.

Today I see intelligent posters denouncing the stat padders, pointing out their flawed arguments, and arguing for balance for all. Arguing for fun, for all. Today, is a good day for MWO. Today I truely believe the reasons that compelled me to become a mwo forum poster, have all been addressed, or are being addressed. Today I believe that PGI has addressed everything I pointed out in my very first post.

Its been a long journey, and I have enjoyed the challenge. The bad guys, the stat padders, have some very intelligent arguers as well. I have enjoyed the intellectual challenges that come from making an argument, having them completely mischaracterize it, and then having to counter them, and salvage my original idea. Sometimes it frustrated me, but in hindsight, it was necessary. As of today, some 666 posts later, I feel PGI has answered my concerns with action, and I feel MWO is headed towards immense success.

Don't get me wrong, I am not leaving. SLXSLXSLX will lay forever dormant, gifted to a friend who since went back to WoT. But I now have three accounts I truely dig, and they should keep me happy till we leave beta. Someday you may face me on the field,and if you ever get a nod from some random, well, it may just be me. Its time for me to step back, and leave the arguing to those more capable of making it. Third, Sturm, Medic, all the good guys, to those whom emailed me with their confidential support, I thank you all.

It is in your hands now, the community of good guys, to keep these "bad guys" from convincing PGI to revert in any way... to revert back to pre Elaine, to prevent reversion back to the dark ages of LRM warrior online, and to prevent this game from never achieving true balance in the interest of staying true to battle tech, over seeking balance as a modern competitive video game. I absolutely 100% believe you can, and I believe you will.

On that note I thank you all for taking the time to read this thread, and this final and lengthy post.

There is no TL DR, you can take the time to read this once.

See you on the field.

Sincerely,

[Redacted] o7

Edited by SlXSlXSlX, 26 February 2013 - 01:33 PM.

[Captain Stiffy]

SlXSlXSlX, on 23 February 2013 - 03:05 AM, said:

From what I hear, she is very chase.

She is, because SHE USED TO BE A DUDE!!! Gargamel or something magic'd Smurfette into a girl.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

SlXSlXSlX, on 26 February 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

______________________________________________________________________________
Final Post of SLXSLXSLX 02-26-2013
______________________________________________________________________________

To all whom it may concern, and to all whom it may please. I am officially resigning form the forum wars thta is general chat.. and let me tell you why.

Warning: This may be a little long.

When I first started playing MWO ECM did not exist, nor did Elo (Elaine). Then, we had less mechs, less maps, well one less. We had LRM spam so heavy, it blotted out the sun on Caustic. We had 4 mans, winning almost all their matches, and most new players, came and went within the same week. Fodder does not a happy new player make. So, I made a post. A post that got alot of flames. I called it "Killing yourself".. the mods have since then renamed it, and then relocated it (twice).

Here it is.

http://mwomercs.com/...lx-suggestions/

In it I stated I thought the game was hurting itself in three ways, weapon imbalance, premade dominance, and staying true to TT rules at the detriment of balance. 3 points, and I stated them pretty clearly. In it I was then called a fraud, I was called an alt of Vassago Rain, and I was trolled with impunity. I got mad, and fired back, and at times lost my cool head and got pretty harsh. It was the first, but not last time, I lost myself in the anger that can come from these e-fights.

I saw what I felt was little to no one arguing the same points as me, and believed they needed argued. I was afraid this game would dissolve away, and lacking a sufficient population, disappear. Somethings I liked about the game, and the ones I pointed out, I detested. You could sayI was spoiled in WoT, it already had a mm, and balance was sought patch to patch (*cough* russian bias-- but ill let that one go). It was night and day for me, a top 3% wot player, to come here and see so much imbalance. I felt at the time, MWO was terminal, but also, I believed it was worth saving. On the forums, I saw no voices arguing for the points I believed needed addressed to change MWO's path.. to make it the most popular MWO it could possibly be. Today I see change. Today I see posters like Thirdstar, Docbach, and Sturm. Decent players who argue for honor.Decent men in mwo, and presumably equally decent men in the real world. Some of those same posters have even posted in this thread. Read what they say carefully, and respectfully consider what they have to say.

Today I sit here, a happy man. Why? Well lets look back at my three original posts.. premades, imbalanced weapons, and TT constraints.

1. Elaine has come, and she is a beautiful system which seems to only be getting better every day, as she continues to collect data on MWO players. 4 man teams, while still 1/2 a public match team, are far far less likely today to win all their fights in mech warrior today. You can see this in the many threads currently dominating the general chat. I am elated to see that not only have the days of 4 man dominance ended, but also that the ones who used those lances to artifically inflate their stats are paying for it dearly. Their many threats that they will quit are jsut that, idle threats. They arnt leaving, theyre jsut being forced to realize that they won so much before, more becuse of a lack of an effective match maker, and les becuase of their own merit or skill.

To see this spilled out across many threads, and it is wonderful.


2. Today, LRM warrior online is a thing of the past. The dark ages, post artemis, pre ECM, are now just a bad memory. Today, I see a huge variety of builds, that were less prevaelnt than when I first joined. Some may be less viable than others, but today I truely believe, weapon balance is far improved. I hope PGI continues to strive to that end. Misssle Warrior online and streak warrior online, I truely believe, this game will never be. Today I see weapon balance, like i never did then. Auto aim never miss missles, ssrms, are not "everywhere" anymore. LRM's no longer dominate the battlefield.

3. Finally TT rules. Every journey begins witha single step. Here, this step was basing values off of the TT numbers from an old board game called Battle Tech. I never played it, but know alot more about it thanwhen I first installed MWO. The problems were apparent, and some still exist. Those sumbers were based on turns, and in a FPS, where you can guarantee hits with precision, as opposed to dice rolls, some of the numbers created imbalance. Since I joined, a number of the TT values, the way things work, such as ECM, have changed to make the current game more fun, more balanced. It upsets some, that it is not a direct port of BT to MWO thatthey hoped for, but they have to understand, the primary concern here is a balanced 2013 FPS, first.

Today I believe PGI understands that.
____________________________________________________________________________________

So I made those three points originally arguing if they didnt change the community number would shrink. Look at the 7000+ tournie entrants. That, is not shrinkage. And trust me, I know what shrinkage looks like... Is it cold in here? Well changes have been made, and as a result, look at how the community numbers have swelled.

Today I no longer believe MWO is terminal, I no longer belive MWO is "killing itself", I no longer believe MWO caters to the few, at the expense of the masses. Today fun can be had, by pubbers, by team players in the 8 man queue seeking a pro v pro experience, and by some 4 mans, the ones that are really good, not the ones that used that mechanic to pad stats they couldnt have achieved alone.

Today I see intelligent posters denouncing the stat padders, pointing out their flawed arguments, and arguing for balance for all. Arguing for fun, for all. Today, is a good day for MWO. Today I truely believe the reasons that compelled me to become a mwo forum poster, have all been addressed, or are being addressed. Today I believe that PGI has addressed everything I pointed out in my very first post.

Its been a long journey, and I have enjoyed the challenge. The bad guys, the stat padders, have some very intelligent arguers as well. I have enjoyed the intellectual challenges that come from making an argument, having them completely mischaracterize it, and then having to counter them, and salvage my original idea. Sometimes it frustrated me, but in hindsight, it was necessary. As of today, some 666 posts later, I feel PGI has answered my concerns with action, and I feel MWO is headed towards immense success.

Don't get me wrong, I am not leaving. SLXSLXSLX will lay forever dormant, gifted to a friend who since went back to WoT. But I now have three accounts I truely dig, and they should keep me happy till we leave beta. Someday you may face me on the field,and if you ever get a nod from some random, well, it may just be me. Its time for me to step back, and leave the arguing to those more capable of making it. Third, Sturm, Medic, all the good guys, to those whom emailed me with their confidential support, I thank you all.

It is in your hands now, the community of good guys, to keep these "bad guys" from convincing PGI to revert in any way... to revert back to pre Elaine, to prevent reversion back to the dark ages of LRM warrior online, and to prevent this game from never achieving true balance in the interest of staying true to battle tech, over seeking balance as a modern competitive video game. I absolutely 100% believe you can, and I believe you will.

On that note I thank you all for taking the time to read this thread, and this final and lengthy post.

There is no TL DR, you can take the time to read this once.

See you on the field.

Sincerely,

[Redacted] o7

LOL I know the truth.........You made your 666th post...........Frozen in time. And what a damn good last thread.
Long days and Pleasant nights slxslxslx

[Badconduct]

OP is bang on.

Stats were a little off, and the lone-wolf not-a-newbs who have been playing against teams of 4 or more with groups of newbs are now working better when they are together.

Being one of those Lonewolfs, it's nice to join matchs that don't end at 0-8.

[Captain Wolfsburg]

SlXSlXSlX, on 24 February 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

Fair and close games are appealling. If you want to drop with multiple lances, we have a special queue for that. It is called the 8 man queue, what you guys want is to take your 3 buddies, with exp. and a snazzy decked out master mech, and face off versus new players, not on comms, learning the game. You can argue its not stat padding all day long, but that is exactly what it is.

Well, I don't know about other teams, but I don't play for that reason. And I run into other groups all the time. New players are already given a boost when they start anyway, and eventually there will be a tutorial mode.

Really, every mechwarrior game before this was the same way in multiplayer regarding new players. Face it, online multiplayer games are rarely friendly to new players. The ones worth keeping are the ones who stick with it and improve (and they will improve).

And as I suggested, CW will change things. There will be a lot less groups dropping into random matches because we'll be too busy conquering the galaxy like we want.

Like I said, the elo system is working great because it's giving my teammates more of a challenge. So, believe what you want, but I'm still enjoying myself, and it seems people I'm playing with are enjoy themselves more too.

[Icebound]

I haven't noticed the enemy getting any better. They just get heavier mechs and I get stuck with a bunch of noobs to carry. I'm still winning most games, but sooner or later I feel like every game is going to be me trying to solo 8 assaults who camp base.

Edited by Icebound, 27 February 2013 - 07:39 AM.

[Joe Marberg]

Training Instructor, on 24 February 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

I don't want a bunch of matches where me and a couple of people are supposed to carry 4-5 new or terrible players. That's the old system.

As one of the unfortunate victims on this match I'd like to say GF. I got killed in my usual way advancing with the group and then discovering that instead of having a brawl with 3-4 people on each side as we made contact that instead my risk averse team mates melted away just as we made contact. Thus leaving me fighting a whole bunch at once and with not much chance of breaking contact So time to die well.

[Zaptruder]

I really dislike the way this dipwad refers to the Elo system as Elaine. Less endearing as it is creepy. I mean Elo is a name in itself; the name of its creator.

Even less likable is he's narcissistic and arrogant enough to group those that take umbrage at the way he delivers his points with those that argue against the system that he was arguing for.

Oh well; good riddance. You fought for the right cause, in the wrong way.

Edited by Zaptruder, 27 February 2013 - 06:44 PM.