419 replies to this topic

[Jabilo]

ChrisOrange, on 25 February 2013 - 06:59 AM, said:

yah but this is not the place... take it to private msgs. This entire thread is pointless

Yet you have posted in it.

Twice.

[Penance]

Agent of Change, on 25 February 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

Anonymity swings both ways and it seems it's always ok to say what you want.... except when it's not... except when it's you that gets hurt.

Again, anything said anonymously SHOULDN'T HURT at ALL.

Why? The person saying whatever it is has 0 idea, absolutely no clue as to who is on the other end of the PC (in this case the other 11 people playing the game)...whomever is reading the comments should be smart enough to realize that. The person making the comments more likely than not has 0 clue as to the race, creed, sexual orientation, financial & marital status of the person(s) on the other end. They know nothing about anybody in game (except friends, but then a friend wouldn't do this to another, if so, they aren't a real friend).

The OP is offended by pure coincidence apparently. some one said something, which applied to OP apparently (maybe not, maybe this is an idealistic crusade ala Obi Wan Kenobi), and it was probably said totally by chance.

Once the OP decided to let himself be offended by whatever, he no longer became anonymous...he chose to let it bother him...I cannot believe this is the first time he's seen "hate speech"...Seriously?

Edited by Penance, 25 February 2013 - 07:07 AM.

[NRP]

Honestly, I haven't seen much of this personally. I get a lot more of the racial slur thing on XBox Live, I guess because everyone has voice chat and most people are younger over there. MWO seems like an older crowd overall.

The only abuse I've seen is people telling me I suck, my aim sucks, I'm a freaking noob, etc. All of which is probably true.

[Agent of Change]

ChrisOrange, on 25 February 2013 - 06:59 AM, said:

yah but this is not the place... take it to private msgs. This entire thread is pointless

If we can't even have the conversation openly then the hope of any kind of change or even moderation is lost before we start. The argument that the people (the OP) arguing that this is happening an should be addressed need thicker skins or are trying to curb people freedom to say things is patently ridiculous because nothing has been said in defense of hate speech (and much has been said in it's defense so far) that isn't so empty a defense that it couldn't be immediately turned around by the other side.

Hell I take it to be proof that this argument needs to be had openly that is has gone as long as it has. No one who fears the truth will argue about having an open discussion.

[ChrisOrange]

Oy of MidWorld, on 25 February 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

No.

The original poster recieved a whole lot of "likes" (hate that term), so it is not useless, as it seems to be an issue to many people around here.

then don't cry about it when we call you whiteknights out for being garbage cans

EDIT: There's actually NOTHING you can do about it besides whine on this forum and we don't need to see that anymore. Thread should be locked. There's no gainful conversation to be had here. Only whiteknighting losers teaming up "against the world." You're really just making yourselves look bad.

Edited by ChrisOrange, 25 February 2013 - 07:09 AM.

[Oy of MidWorld]

ChrisOrange, on 25 February 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

then don't cry about it when we call you whiteknights out for being garbage cans

Hey i usually don't cry, and i don't care what the **** you call me. If you suddenly started spouting racist crap for some reason i'd report you, but you don't seem to be the kind...

ChrisOrange, on 25 February 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

EDIT: There's actually NOTHING you can do about it besides whine on this forum and we don't need to see that anymore. Thread should be locked. There's no gainful conversation to be had here. Only whiteknighting losers teaming up "against the world." You're really just making yourselves look bad.

Got some exact numbers? How does the world feel about this? Who is a loser, who isn't?

Edited by Oy of MidWorld, 25 February 2013 - 07:15 AM.

[Xinaoen]

ChrisOrange, on 25 February 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

then don't cry about it when we call you whiteknights out for being garbage cans

EDIT: There's actually NOTHING you can do about it besides whine on this forum and we don't need to see that anymore. Thread should be locked.

It makes me furious, thinking of all the time I wasted trying to have an intelligent discussion. If only you'd let us know sooner that any issue that you don't care about is unimportant.

What would the forums do without you?

[Agent of Change]

Penance, on 25 February 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

Again, anything said anonymously SHOULDN'T HURT at ALL.

Why? The person saying whatever it is has 0 idea, absolutely no clue as to who is on the other end of the PC (in this case the other 11 people playing the game)...whomever is reading the comments should be smart enough to realize that. The person making the comments has 0 clue as to the race, creed, sexual orientation, financial & marital status of the person on the other end. They know nothing about anybody in game (except friends, but then a friend wouldn't do this to another, if so, they aren't a real friend).

The OP is offended by pure coincidence apparently.

Once the OP decided to let himself be offended by whatever, he no longer became anonymous...he chose to let it bother him...I cannot believe this is the first time he's seen "hate speech"...Seriously?

The fact that a person has 0 idea who is listening is exactly why we should not be using hate speech. Because it is just that the language of HATE and has no place outside of spreading, supporting, or justifying HATE. Not knowing who is listening doesn't absolve you of responsibility for giving offense.

Let me take your argument to a literal but realistic extreme:

I go to a major American city say New York. I put up loud speakers in times square and place that's always crazy busy. I start remotely going on racist tirades about every ethinicty I can think of one at a time. They can't see me i can't see them and I'm saying as vile things as I can, but it's ok right... because it's anonymous? \


Wrong, that attitude belies both the power that words do have (stick and stones is a cute rhyme but actual ******** when it comes to hate speech) and how these ideas spread and take root. It doesn't matter where the HATE comes from it is still HATE and it will cause harm.

[ChrisOrange]

Xinaoen, on 25 February 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

It makes me furious, thinking of all the time I wasted trying to have an intelligent discussion. If only you'd let us know sooner that any issue that you don't care about is unimportant.

What would the forums do without you?

just sayin there's no gainful discussion to be had here only whiteknights ganging up on people that probably don't deserve it. It actually makes you guys look worse. Here's the worst thing you can do in this "discussion:" try to be "right."

There's nothing better for you to do? We are all stupider for reading this garbage can thread. This quest you guys are on to be "right" actually makes YOU the ones who look bad report this thread people.

Edited by ChrisOrange, 25 February 2013 - 07:16 AM.

[Penance]

Agent of Change, on 25 February 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

Let me take your argument to a literal but realistic extreme:

I go to a major American city say New York. I put up loud speakers in times square and place that's always crazy busy. I start remotely going on racist tirades about every ethinicty I can think of one at a time. They can't see me i can't see them and I'm saying as vile things as I can, but it's ok right... because it's anonymous? \

Hey this does happen so it is realistic...it's called a KKK rally, and some of them wear hoods being anonymous, others are blatant about their racism, they've been in in the news from time to time..

There is this thing called the first amendment in the united states. So technically you could do this, so long as you go through the channels and get a permit to have a rally...you DON'T even need to be anonymous to do this.

Edited by Penance, 25 February 2013 - 07:23 AM.

[Rebas Kradd]

I'd rather have the devs working on the game than chasing down every 14-year-old who calls someone else "***".

I can't stand the dumbspeech either, and my group doesn't use it. But either you have a thick skin at some point, or the game becomes a first-grade classroom.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 25 February 2013 - 07:23 AM.

[SPARTAN02]

Quit

[Max Liao]

Xinaoen, on 25 February 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

I think there comes a point where you have to take a step back and ask yourself whether you have any business telling someone how strongly they should or shouldn't react to a given thing.

While I'm professional at work, and I maintain appropriate decorum in other areas - (i.e. I'm not religious, but I won't cuss in a church; I try not to cuss around children; etc.) - if you're around me, you're not going to tell me what I can and can't say - (and don't use the movie theater reference, you know that's not what this discussion is about). If you get ******** over it I'm going to do it more, just to make you more ********; and to either drive you away or help you realize they are words ... just words. Not action ... words.

I have all the business in the world to tell someone not to take offense:

• If it's a joke, or obvious satire - whether you like it or not.
  
• It's true.
  
• You're reading into something that's not there or the intent.

I'm not going to go out of my way to antagonize anyone, unless they try to censor or antagonize me, but I'm not going to coddle anyone either.

Political correctness is the sign of a weak and controlled mind. You can rant, cry, cajole, or otherwise try and persuade me otherwise, but you'll be wasting your breath.

[ROFLwaffle49]

Lubalin, on 24 February 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

If you do use such words, you're on notice. I screenshot and report it every time.

So instead of letting the devs do work on the actual game you are holding up the support team (who should be tracking game exploits and such) with who called you a bad name in a game?! Its the internet! Do you really not get how this works? Like really. If you don't understand how people function on the internt then I'll explain it to you. But if you do and you still don't get it then you have far bigger problems then the person calling you names on the internet.

[Voridan Atreides]

Kalen Hickman, on 24 February 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

You seem like that "one guy" who couldn't finish Monty Python and the Holy Grail because it offended you on a spiritual level.
I'm sure a chat filter will be implemented for the care bears.

So everyone has to be ok with offensive language? Cussing is so immature.

[Agent of Change]

ChrisOrange, on 25 February 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

just sayin there's no gainful discussion to be had here only whiteknights ganging up on people that probably don't deserve it. It actually makes you guys look worse. Here's the worst thing you can do in this "discussion:" try to be "right."

There's nothing better for you to do? We are all stupider for reading this garbage can thread. This quest you guys are on to be "right" actually makes YOU the ones who look bad report this thread people.

And yet you are still here repeating yourself. You are the one throwing around derision in the form of "whiteknighting" and "garbage can" in a pretty sad attempt at insult. Accusing people of trying to be right and trying to shut down a conversation it's clear you want no part of?

So lets get this clear right now and see if you have the courage of you apparent convictions.

Are you saying that you support the use of hate speech and specifically banned terminology in the TOS in the in game chat?

If so do you usually support violating the rules of online games whose TOS you have agreed to?

Do you feel you somehow have a right to use Hate speech and that this conversation somehow threatens that?

If it's not hitting close to home other than trolling do you have any other reason to want this thread closed more than any of the other pointless threads on this forum?

[Jabilo]

ChrisOrange, on 25 February 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

just sayin there's no gainful discussion to be had here only whiteknights ganging up on people that probably don't deserve it. It actually makes you guys look worse. Here's the worst thing you can do in this "discussion:" try to be "right."

There's nothing better for you to do? We are all stupider for reading this garbage can thread. This quest you guys are on to be "right" actually makes YOU the ones who look bad report this thread people.

Disagree. There are some intelligent posts here. Hidden, but here.

Also, it is interesting to see people whose position is "you should be able to say what you want on the internet" call for the thread to be locked.

This was also your third post in a pointless thread that you care nothing about.

Edited by Jabilo, 25 February 2013 - 07:25 AM.

[Agent of Change]

Penance, on 25 February 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

Hey this does happen...it's called a KKK rally, and some of them wear hoods, i think you've seen them. Was that you in the city that day?! KIDDING!

There is this thing called the first amendment in the united states. So technically you could do this, so long as you go through the channels and get a permit to have a rally...you DON'T even need to be anonymous to do this.

Being allowed to and it being OK are two entirely different things. I've seen KKK rallies, they are pretty vile things no matter where you are seeing as how they are predicated on Hate.

But I was only challenging your assertion that people shouldn't be offended because the speaker was anonymous, would it be wrong for the African American population of a city where a Klan rally was occurring to be offended because the speaker was anonymous? It's the same thing on the internet since everyone is here, you can't use a slur and reasonably expect that someone that slur would normally refer to won't see it.

[Penance]

Max Liao, on 25 February 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

• You're reading into something that's not there or the intent.

Kind of my point as well...the whole anonymous thing

[Mr T]

Offense is taken not given. So stop taking.

Personally I take offense to those who think they can decide for me what is or isn't appropriate to say.

Besides, meaning of words is open to interpretation of tho one who is on the receiving end just as much as the one who speaks it and proselytizing language is disdainful at best. Whats to stop someone from interpreting your "GG"'s as you calling them a ******* ginger?