419 replies to this topic

[Daggett]

It happened again...



Hmm.. maybe the splatcat is indeed a tad bit too strong...
Or am i really the master assassin i always conceit myself to be...?

Or even both?

And did i mentioned we had a disconnect on our side in that match...

Edited by Daggett, 25 February 2013 - 04:38 PM.

[Rhent]

Vermaxx, on 25 February 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

Twin Gauss K2 is overpowered.

Small Laser Hunch is overpowered.

Small Laser Jenner is overpowered.

MEDIUM LASER (both above) is overpowered.

SSRM is overpowered.

SRM is overpowered.


The ^&$*ING radar lets you know what a mech is carrying before you charge it. USE IT, stop charging Missile Box Eared Cats before figuring out what is in them.

Little hint - almost everything in the game lets you sit outside an SRM's good cone range and blow it apart.

Some people have problems looking at the map while they are sniping/lrm'ing and then they die to SRM cat attacks from the rear. Doing two things at once is hard for bads.

[Asmosis]

its harder to aim srms effectively than it is to aim lasers, ballistics or pretty much any other weapon in game. they're also very short range and do little damage outside of 200m (and have no falloff either). They're brutal inside 100m but seriously thats your fault if they get that close untouched.

[Cache]

Orzorn, on 25 February 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

When I did, it was hilarious to see them on Alpine, where everyone would focus them down and they'd end the game with nearly 0 damage.

Saw two that I remember. Killed one on Alpine... with only the LRMs on my Trebuchet. Felt particularly satisfying.

[TurinAlexander]

I'm so sick of all the bitching and moaning about every build that's even slightly effective. SSRM are cheese, Gauss are cheese, AC/20s are cheese, SRMs are cheese, PPCs are cheese, LRMs are cheese...I could go on. Some people won't be happy until all we have is two medium lasers apiece and all we do is circle strafe each other to death.

[Cache]

Daggett, on 25 February 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

Hmm.. maybe the splatcat is indeed a tad bit too strong...

Not really. Several of your teammates appear to have done their fair share of the damage. I've seen a SplatCat's damage that high with 3 kills and fewer assists so I might assume you finished off a couple of near-dead opponents. That you lived long enough to do so is partly the fault of the other team and partly because you appear to have a strong grasp of the proper tactics for that build.

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

Splat cat ears are really easy to blow off. Learn to aim and cry less. Splat cats also literally have to carry their ordinance to the target so it's only fair they get to do massive amounts of damage up close.

More pew pew and less QQ.

[Franchi]

Davers, on 25 February 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

Not sure how you piloting a mech with 3 SRM6 and doing well means that 6 SRM6 is balanced. Seems you are trying to make a point that SRMs are broken.

Pretty sure no one saves screenshots from the matches they sucked in.

Ah, so it the SRM6's that are op and the catapult has nothing to do with it, thank you for clearing that up.

Daggett, on 25 February 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

It happened again...



Hmm.. maybe the splatcat is indeed a tad bit too strong...
Or am i really the master assassin i always conceit myself to be...?

Or even both?

And did i mentioned we had a disconnect on our side in that match...

Ammo explosions make you pro!

Did you mention that the other team had two disconnects that match? One of whom I'm sure you took apart piece by piece at the spawn point?

Edited by Franchi, 25 February 2013 - 05:33 PM.

[Daggett]

Franchi, on 25 February 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

Ammo explosions make you pro!

Did you mention that the other team had two disconnects that match? One of whom I'm sure you took apart piece by piece at the spawn point?

Where do you see two disconnects on the enemy team?

Both teams started with one mech less. And then right at the start of the match our Ilya disconnected.
So in summary we had 6 while they had 7 mechs.

You can easily see that each enemy mech has played and dealt significant damage.

And of cause, there are some occasional ammo explosions when 90 dmg are hitting a mech. But im sure the dmg itself is the more devastating factor in most kills than a potential ammo explosion.

Edited by Daggett, 25 February 2013 - 05:47 PM.

[BrkDncr]

I've taken out "Splatcats" with a com2d armed with LRMs and SSRM. Face the 'cat, full reverse throttle, LRM spam until they go down. It's not difficult to stay out of their firing range.

[Khobai]

Quote

Most brawling Atlases I see go 60-64 kph because they run 325-350 rated engines and have Speed Tweak unlocked.

You need an XL360 engine to go 64kph in an Atlas. And no most brawling Atlases definitely don't use XL engines. A 325 standard is about the biggest standard engine an Atlas can have without sacrificing firepower. Atlases are sloowwww.

Edited by Khobai, 25 February 2013 - 05:52 PM.

[Henry Pride]

Vermaxx, on 25 February 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

Twin Gauss K2 is overpowered.

Small Laser Hunch is overpowered.

Small Laser Jenner is overpowered.

MEDIUM LASER (both above) is overpowered.

SSRM is overpowered.

SRM is overpowered.


The ^&$*ING radar lets you know what a mech is carrying before you charge it. USE IT, stop charging Missile Box Eared Cats before figuring out what is in them.

Little hint - almost everything in the game lets you sit outside an SRM's good cone range and blow it apart.

I wonder why people still write Threads like this one. In Closed Beta it was the Hunchback 4P, then it was the SSRM A1, then the Dual Gauss K2, then the 6 ML Jenner, now its the 6SRM6 A1 and the 6 PPC Stalker... next to come? 3 Gauss Jagermech?

[Mechwarrior940794]

Running my splat cat for about 30% of my tourny games i can tell you 100% that it is no where near overpowered.

When you are playing people that are actually good that understand it can be easily avoided and disarmed with little effort.

My jump jet 3d is far more overpowered then the limited variablilty of the splat cat. That has a 87kp speed and can't fight outside of 200m

[Franchi]

Daggett, on 25 February 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

Where do you see two disconnects on the enemy team?

Both teams started with one mech less. And then right at the start of the match our Ilya disconnected.
So in summary we had 6 while they had 7 mechs.

You can easily see that each enemy mech has played and dealt significant damage.

And of cause, there are some occasional ammo explosions when 90 dmg are hitting a mech. But im sure the dmg itself is the more devastating factor in most kills than a potential ammo explosion.

All 7 enemy mechs dead, 6 total kills for your team, so they had a disco at the base, damage dealt to it counts but no kill was assigned.

This is not rocket science bro.

[Daggett]

Franchi, on 25 February 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

All 7 enemy mechs dead, 6 total kills for your team, so they had a disco at the base, damage dealt to it counts but no kill was assigned.

This is not rocket science bro.

Well i'm not talking about the damage dealt to him. Every single enemy mech has dealt damage by themself, so all of them must have at least moved and shot someone. A disconnected mech deals no damage.

So i see 3 possibilities:
- One of them had a screen freeze or similar during the match. Happens quite some time.
- He was one of those cowards who fear their stats and disconnected right before his destruction.
- He was teamkilled by accident in the heat of the battle. If they had a TK who did it on purpose, the chat would have been full with rantings against him...

But whatever the case, no enemy mech was harmless and simply stood at their base being afk. They all participated to some degree. And even if not they had at least the same amount of fully operational mechs as we had.

Edited by Daggett, 25 February 2013 - 07:01 PM.

[Saint Rigid]

Dear Garfuncle,
You are NOT crazy. The problem here is that you are trying to have a discussion about game design with players. The forum is not filled with THOUSANDS of designers, so don't feel frustrated when your sentiment is replied to by players.

The discussion that you are trying to have is about the design philosophy of Mech Warrior Online. The sentiment that I'm hearing (that others might be missing) is as follows:

-It is not acceptable to allow any mech to deal that much damage that quickly REGARDLESS of drawbacks. The existence of such as an option breaks the PHILOSOPHY of the combat system. It doesn't break rules or mechanics or balance. It breaks the FEEL of the game (which is a design goal, not a balance mechanic).

In a game without respawns the pacing of each individual lifespan is incredibly important. There should be a damage cap that reflects this goal. For example, Headshots. The ability to drop a mech to it's knees through cranial devastation was both a cool idea and paid tribute to the tabletop incarnation. However, it became clear early in development, that it needed to be difficult to perform. Hitboxes needed to be changed to reflect the fickle nature of head-shots, as opposed the skill based nature, BECAUSE making it as skill based action left too much room for abuse. It would have just remained an auto-win button for those who learned to master it, which was anti-mwo. So while it is possible to crush someone's face in, it is no where as easy as it once was (or theoretically could have been when compared to the tabletop). [does anyone remember the first incarnation of the cicada and how they died more easily then minions in a Power Rangers episode]

Some of this problem stems from the escalating nature of missiles. Missiles are fundamentally different than all of the other weapons because of their modular design. I can fill four Missile slots with lrm 5's or 1 missile slot with an lrm 20 and have almost the exact same effect: exact same range and exact same damage. Lasers and Ballistics do not fit this profile at all, which shows the "alien" nature of missiles in the game.

That having been said, there are going to be times when this happens. Particularly with teamwork. I crested a ridge once in a commando slightly fast than I had inteded. I started breaking before I even reached the top, and before I had time to react to the FOUR mechs within 200 meters of me on the other side of the crest I was completely vaporized while backpedaling. Just a few short meters and less than one and one half seconds and I was toast. But it was still fun! I laughed so hard! And I learned a thing or two about piloting that day (particular about piloting lights). So while it is not a good idea to allow such noob-pwnery into the system, it will inevitably happen, I can assure you.

One option to help the issue in question (in addition to missile reform, of which I am a STRONG proponent), is to add more slots to missiles. There is a reason most people can't fit an AC20 into their arm, or fit 2 AC20's in one limb EVER. Doubling the slots that SRMs occupy could potentially make it harder to SPAM them in such a design-breaking way. Alternatively, changing the way that missile slots are implemented could speak to the problem. Changing it so that each missile "slot" allowed you to take a single "grouping" of missiles (either groups of 2 for SRMs or groups of 5 for LRMs). So if you have three missile slots in your right arm, you could take three LRM 5s, or one LRM 15... OR you could take one SRM2 and one SRM4. (NOTE: this method would involve re-structuring the missile points in mechs, increasing their number, but decreasing their "flexibility", i.e. spam potential). Alongside moving the Ballistic slots on the K2 into the center torso (lol), this is my personal fix to the problem. (and yes, even though the conversation is about design philosophy, the answer is going to look like mechanics ).

Hopefully this addresses the OP, and hopefully the admins see this post, realize the thread is not lost, and pass my idea along to the design team with a thumbs up

-Cormac

Edited by Natanael Cormac, 25 February 2013 - 07:25 PM.

[Dark Baron]

WAAAAAAAHHHHHH Cry me a river. First off, there's only two ways a splatcat is insta killing you. Either he's sneaking up and hitting you on your soft backside, in which case it's your fault for having lousy situational awareness, or you a light, and even then you have to be a light at point blank range. Otherwise it still takes 3 shots just to take down a well armored medium, and that's 3 close range shots. The missiles may have a range of 270, but in all actuality, the splatcat is really only truly effective at 50 meters or less. Second, you wouldn't be seeing so many splatcats if you hadn't nerfed LRMs, and by default, catapults, to the ground. At this point playing a LRM boat in a pug is nothing more than a lesson in futility, as very few lights gear themselves for spotting in pugs. You're whining about a problem your previous whining created. Now go learn to play.

[Grayseven]

What bothers me is that heat buildup doesn't seem to have the effect it should on speed and targeting.

Put 6 PPC's into a Stalker and you have a one-shot killer of nearly everything even if it does shut down as soon as it fires. And as soon as it powers up it can fearlessly do it again without worrying about cooling down to get targeting back because it simply isn't affected by the heat.

Components should be damaged by massive heat build up just as ammo is. Too much heat and wire leads and plastic melts. And the pilot is affected most of all yet until this effect is placed in game we will see these "shoot up, shut down" builds.

Heat has always been the great balancer in the MW games, both tabletop and computer, with more of an effect than just shutting down a mech if heat levels get too high. Until these effects are added into the game we will continue to see 'splatcats and their ilk.

[Armored Yokai]

Vermaxx, on 25 February 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

Twin Gauss K2 is overpowered.

Small Laser Hunch is overpowered.

Small Laser Jenner is overpowered.

MEDIUM LASER (both above) is overpowered.

SSRM is overpowered.

SRM is overpowered.


The ^&$*ING radar lets you know what a mech is carrying before you charge it. USE IT, stop charging Missile Box Eared Cats before figuring out what is in them.

Little hint - almost everything in the game lets you sit outside an SRM's good cone range and blow it apart.

Whay if they have a ecm buddie and come behind you?

[Irvine]

Khobai, on 25 February 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

You need an XL360 engine to go 64kph in an Atlas. And no most brawling Atlases definitely don't use XL engines. A 325 standard is about the biggest standard engine an Atlas can have without sacrificing firepower. Atlases are sloowwww.

you are complaining that an Atlas cannot outrun a mech that weighs 35 tons less? What is your opinion on Dragons then? OMG it can go 107kph!!!!

/sarcasm