78 replies to this topic

[Signal27]

Catalinasgrace, on 25 February 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

You are the elite light pilots correct?

Nope, nor did I ever make any claims to be. In fact, the Streaks being kind of easy to use is exactly why I built myself a light mech like that - because otherwise I'm far from being a sharpshooter. I'm not afraid to admit it, either.

That said, I always justified a light mech with Streaks being a "hard counter" to other lights, who are usually tough to destroy through any other means. But even I will admit that the Raven 3L and the Commando 2D kind of discourages light mech pilots from using anything else. So I won't whine if the nerf bat comes down on me - I kind of expect it, in fact.

Edited by Signal27, 25 February 2013 - 04:08 PM.

[Wolf Clearwater]

@ OP: Already been doing it, challenge accepted.

Edit: Anyone remember a few months ago before ECM when Jenners were over-powered and broken? ;p

Edited by Wolf87535, 25 February 2013 - 04:13 PM.

[aptest]

mwhighlander, on 25 February 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

LOL

If you take ssrms away from the Ravens, they are absolutely harmless. Notice some kind of correlation there? They will never do it because then they would actually need to be good -- too afraid of getting their mechs crushed by those who can actually pilot & aim at the same time.

I can't wait for collisions to come back.

you have a gross misscalculation of how much damage those 3 med lasers actually do.
I'll break it down for you: almost as much as an AC20.

[Zylo]

Catalinasgrace, on 25 February 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

Yes I have them too however I do not use ssrms on any mech I have... I have a challenge for you!!! We all know you like your glory of being the top killer and damage dealer in your light mech. We know that most who fly the 3L or commandos with ssrms have an easy mode button to beat other lights. So here is my challenge to you. Remove the ssrms and use only srms and lets see just how great you are at that point. You are the elite light pilots correct? Lets see it in action! Remove the ssrms and lets see which light mech is really the king.

All lights are currently easier to pilot than they should be with no risk of being kocked down.

Once knockdowns are returned there will be less need for players to run streak based designs. Keep in mind streaks became very popular for killing lights when collision knockdowns were first removed.

[One Medic Army]

Kyone Akashi, on 25 February 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

To be fair, given how missile splash damage works, they don't really need to. At least not against other Lights, given component sizes and the detonation radius.

I'm more talking about when they're circling an atlas, and manage to loose every single volley into an arm.

[Zylo]

One Medic Army, on 25 February 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

I'm more talking about when they're circling an atlas, and manage to loose every single volley into an arm.

I think it's intentional... higher damage done as a result...

[Kyone Akashi]

Zylo, on 25 February 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

Once knockdowns are returned there will be less need for players to run streak based designs. Keep in mind streaks became very popular for killing lights when collision knockdowns were first removed.

This sounds like revisionism. Streaks have been popular in CB since ... since ever. Simply because a homing weapon is a very powerful tool against fast-moving targets. A Light BattleMech's velocity and small size is its most effective defense, after all.

And note that this was way before Streak Missiles were essentially buffed in the November patch, so they were already a popular choice even before they were as good as they are now.

If knockdowns are reintroduced the way we had them in CB, all that will change is that we'll see a return of "Jenner Football" where Lights tripping other Lights happens more often than them actually using their weapons against one another. Ugh.

One Medic Army, on 25 February 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

I'm more talking about when they're circling an atlas, and manage to loose every single volley into an arm.

Oh, alright.

Yes, I've seen that a few times, now that you mention it.

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 25 February 2013 - 04:17 PM.

[Kaspirikay]

No man. Ssrm for life. Also >implying aiming is hard in this game

[Eboli]

In my Jenner I used to run 2xsrm4's but with lag starting to make an increased appearance and my ping being around 250 I now play a setup of 1xsrm4 and a ssrm2. This gives me options - especially when chasing a fast light. On a bad lag day I will swap over to 2xssrms but I do prefer a minimum of one srm4 in my loadout

A counter argument from me is that a lot me mediums, heavies and assaults are now using ssrms and yet you are saying us lights should stop using them...

Larger mechs should learn to lead their shots as well then and not use ssrms a player may argue - disregarding lagshield. Larger mechs using ssrms are just wasting their hard points as they should be using them for more powerful weapons...

But, after all is said I do agree that ssrms do need to be looked at by PGI. We know by examples in the past that PGI can make adjustments that affect their hitting capability and like many previous posts even making players needing to relock an enemy after firing their ssrms could make a big difference itself.

Let's not talk about 3L's and ssrms...

Cheers!
Eboli

Edited by Eboli, 25 February 2013 - 04:20 PM.

[Zylo]

Kyone Akashi, on 25 February 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

This sounds like revisionism. Streaks have been popular in CB since ... since ever. Simply because a homing weapon is a very powerful tool against fast-moving targets. A Light BattleMech's velocity and small size is its most effective defense, after all.

And note that this was way before Streak Missiles were essentially buffed in the November patch, so they were already a popular choice even before they were as good as they are now.

If knockdowns are reintroduced the way we had them in CB, all that will change is that we'll see a return of "Jenner Football" where Lights tripping other Lights happens more often than them actually using their weapons against once another. Ugh.

I dunno, some of the most fun I ever had in a light was Jenner football as you call it. It was actually my first experience in a light mech after having way too many drinks that night after the closed beta tournament win (I was with ELP at the time). I got used to tackling the enemy lights, teammates would score easy kills on them and then I would be free to go get easy kills on the LRM boats with no enemy lights remaining.


Streaks never seemed very common before knockdowns were removed, I mean I saw the occasional mech with streaks but they certainly weren't dangerous at the time. It was easier to just deal with a lagger by knocking them down which was generally more efficient than shooting SSRM2's at some lagger until they died.

Edited by Zylo, 25 February 2013 - 04:22 PM.

[Commander Kobold]

Mokey Mot, on 25 February 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

Same here, a lot less people will be as keen to get in the face of an atlas...especially if they do the collisions well, and make the arms capable of dealing collision damage. My RS will really be the ultimate brawler then, and will finally have a use for those giant fists .

standard tackling and knock downs first, we can maybe work on your flailing mokey arms later

Wolf87535, on 25 February 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

@ OP: Already been doing it, challenge accepted.

Edit: Anyone remember a few months ago before ECM when Jenners were over-powered and broken? ;p

yeah and we had ssrm cats to counter them.

[FrostCollar]

Zylo, on 25 February 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Streaks never seemed very common before knockdowns were removed, I mean I saw the occasional mech with streaks but they certainly weren't dangerous at the time. It was easier to just deal with a lagger by knocking them down which was generally more efficient than shooting SSRM2's at some lagger until they died.

Not in my experience.
Jenner D. 4 ML. 2 SSRMs.
I was curbstomped many, many times by those in my poor Raven 2X back in the CB.

[Xyroc]

wouldnt make the lights useless but just take longer for them to be doing the damage ... but yea I have a raven 2x that has done 700 ish dmg a number of times without the use of ssrms

[Commander Kobold]

aptest, on 25 February 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

you have a gross misscalculation of how much damage those 3 med lasers actually do.
I'll break it down for you: almost as much as an AC20.

just because your 3 medium lasers pump out as much damage as a gauss round doesn't mean its all going to hit the same spot,especially if you're racing around at 100+ kph

[CrashieJ]

I'LL DO IT IN MY MG-SPIDER!!!

[Zylo]

FrostCollar, on 25 February 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

Not in my experience.
Jenner D. 4 ML. 2 SSRMs.
I was curbstomped many, many times by those in my poor Raven 2X back in the CB.

I guess I didn't see a problem because I was too busy knocking down the enemy lights whenever I played a light and teammates would kill it fast.

[Commander Kobold]

Eboli, on 25 February 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

A counter argument from me is that a lot me mediums, heavies and assaults are now using ssrms and yet you are saying us lights should stop using them...
SSRMs are the easiest way to deal with anklebiters who seem to shrug off rounds from other weapons

Larger mechs should learn to lead their shots as well then and not use ssrms a player may argue - disregarding lagshield. Larger mechs using ssrms are just wasting their hard points as they should be using them for more powerful weapons...
and they would, if hitting lights wasn't such a pain in the tuckus(or we could knock em over)

Let's not talk about 3L's and ssrms...
not going to happen untill they're fixed some how

[FrostCollar]

Zylo, on 25 February 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

I guess I didn't see a problem because I was too busy knocking down the enemy lights whenever I played a light and teammates would kill it fast.

Oh, believe me - I learned to do that. I miss the days of playing a proper defensive light. You'd tackle the enemy light and let your allies gun them down. Well, so long as the crazy teleporting that knock downs wasn't too bad.

However, Mechwarrior Online is not a game where you always have allies near your or a game when you always outnumber the enemy, and when a Jenner's a lot faster than you there's no realistic way you'll be able to knock them down if they see you coming. 1 v 1 was a nightmare.

Let's not go back to those days though. Given the current state of streaks, I do not lament the (almost) death of the Streakcat.

Edited by FrostCollar, 25 February 2013 - 04:30 PM.

[Kyone Akashi]

Zylo, on 25 February 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

I got used to tackling the enemy lights, teammates would score easy kills on them and then I would be free to go get easy kills on the LRM boats with no enemy lights remaining.

Glad you had fun. I would say your opponents did not, seeing as you robbed them of a chance to actually have a fight.

Zylo, on 25 February 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Streaks never seemed very common before knockdowns were removed, I mean I saw the occasional mech with streaks but they certainly weren't dangerous at the time. It was easier to just deal with a lagger by knocking them down which was generally more efficient than shooting SSRM2's at some lagger until they died.

Lag wasn't as bad in CB as it got when the game went into Open Beta, so I think that's another thing you may misremember. I had a Streak launcher and used it simply because it was more reliable than a set of dumbfire SRMs with shotgun spread when chasing another Light. Normal SRMs on the other hand were superior against bigger/heavier 'Mechs, but against those I had my four MedLas.

I agree that Streaks weren't as dangerous as they are today - they could actually miss, especially in a knife fight.
It's rather ironic that a bugfix made them so controversial. Back then, you really had to consider whether you wanted something against fast-movers or slow but better armored targets. Nowadays, it almost seems as if SSRM have become as useful as SRM4, simply because you can launch them from almost any angle and they always hit. You need to be a very good shot to achieve the same result with normal SRMs, and even if you are it requires you to face your target.

And then there's the connectivity issues ... I think it was just a week ago that I managed to hurl 4 SRMs into the shoulder of a teammate who stood 10 meters next to my actual target. The server decided I should be nudged a few degrees just as I fired ...

[Gaan Cathal]

Omni 13, on 25 February 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

just because your 3 medium lasers pump out as much damage as a gauss round doesn't mean its all going to hit the same spot,especially if you're racing around at 100+ kph

Going at 120+km/hr, it's easier for me to keep three MLAS on an Atlas' AC/20 than it is for him to tag me with that AC/20 (presuming I'm actively piloting, leeeeeeeeeeeroy charges do not count).

Zylo, on 25 February 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

I guess I didn't see a problem because I was too busy knocking down the enemy lights whenever I played a light and teammates would kill it fast.

I'll grant you I never played Closed Beta, but why do you seem to think that this kind of gameplay would be better than what we have now? Knockdowns/collision damage should be a deterrent to driving into people to lag-transition through them. The footage I've seen of Bowling Dragons doesn't look much like a game that would see any success and, restricting the point to lights...if you exclude SSRMs, light-on-light combat requires skill to win (a varying amount depending on the opposition, granted). If not only a tactic, but the best tactic was just to run full pelt into the other guy and hope your team killed him before his team killed you...well then it wouldn't. It would be a basically skillless faceroll fest.

Kyone Akashi, on 25 February 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

I agree that Streaks weren't as dangerous as they are today - they could actually miss, especially in a knife fight.
It's rather ironic that a bugfix made them so controversial. Back then, you really had to consider whether you wanted something against fast-movers or slow but better armored targets. Nowadays, it almost seems as if SSRM have become as useful as SRM4, simply because you can launch them from almost any angle and they always hit. You need to be a very good shot to achieve the same result with normal SRMs, and even if you are it requires you to face your target.

Wierdly, rolling back the bugfix would actually go a long way to putting SSRMs where they need to be, though it's not only 'fix' for them, it's probably the easiest (assuming they've kept a record of what they deleted).

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 25 February 2013 - 04:36 PM.