152 replies to this topic

[Lugh]

Captain Midnight, on 26 February 2013 - 03:46 AM, said:

A lobby seriously hurts pugstompers. Pugstompers won't join a lobby they might lose in, and pugstompers are a disturbingly HUGE quantity of players. The vast majority runs 3/3/0/2 as their most charitable drop deck, and would rather run 4s than 8s out of fear.

Don't forget the second favorite 5 / 0 /0/3 3L

[grayson marik]

Captain Midnight, on 26 February 2013 - 03:46 AM, said:

A lobby seriously hurts pugstompers. Pugstompers won't join a lobby they might lose in, and pugstompers are a disturbingly HUGE quantity of players. The vast majority runs 3/3/0/2 as their most charitable drop deck, and would rather run 4s than 8s out of fear.

Not if the grouping ability would be taken away from the pug queue or if pugs could choose in their settings if they are willing to fill a match with a premade inside.

But taking the groups from the pug queue would require a lobby first to make room for it.

[KinLuu]

I would like two queues:

1. For soloplayers.
2. For groups

And in addition to that, there should be a invite based system that lets group A fight group B.

[PhoenixFire55]

Thirdstar, on 26 February 2013 - 03:44 AM, said:

Seriously? You felt that an 8 man teams dropping against Trials and newbs was a GOOD direction for the game?

Ye gods, gold vision.

PGI claims that the majority of players are 'lone wolves'. If that is the case then the situation when 8 man team is dropping against 8 man PUG team (let alone 8 man PUG newbies team) should occur like 1 time in a 100. I don't see a problem. Unless of course 'lone wolves' are not actually the majority.

[grayson marik]

KinLuu, on 26 February 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

I would like two queues:

1. For soloplayers.
2. For groups

And in addition to that, there should be a invite based system that lets group A fight group B.

^^ This at the very least!

[Thirdstar]

PhoenixFire55, on 26 February 2013 - 03:54 AM, said:

PGI claims that the majority of players are 'lone wolves'. If that is the case then the situation when 8 man team is dropping against 8 man PUG team (let alone 8 man PUG newbies team) should occur like 1 time in a 100. I don't see a problem. Unless of course 'lone wolves' are not actually the majority.

Ooooh math, I love math. So tell me how you came to this 1 in 100 number? Then again you think solo players AREN'T a majority so you clearly already have issues with facts and reality.

[Galenit]

grayson marik, on 26 February 2013 - 03:20 AM, said:

And maybe a lobby helps teams more than pugs - but only in a way that it enables team games at all, while it only further improves the pug experience that is already there^^

That would be right, if there where no teams that enjoy pugstomping,
A lobby will only bring better teamgames, but why should a bad team go to a lobby and find games against better players, if they can continuing pugstomps?
A lobby is a solution for the honorable teams locking for good fights against other teams, but not for the pugs/stompteam problem.

[grayson marik]

PhoenixFire55, on 26 February 2013 - 03:54 AM, said:

PGI claims that the majority of players are 'lone wolves'. If that is the case then the situation when 8 man team is dropping against 8 man PUG team (let alone 8 man PUG newbies team) should occur like 1 time in a 100. I don't see a problem. Unless of course 'lone wolves' are not actually the majority.

Sorry PhoenixFire55, the forum feedback of more than 6 month's alone proves you wrong.
No matter if the problem is as big by perception or by real numbers.
The problem is there and even rising bigger as PGI took the last vent for group matches away with ELO without providing a new way for teams to play (specific) teams.

So steps need to be taken a.s.a.p to stop this pug vs teams forum war and bad mood altogether.

So PGI could come out of the shadows and finally state firm that they do not want teams to play against specific teams.
(and therefore the pugstomping would stay as well as many players would leave instantly)

Or they can finally conclude that it is high time for a tiny little feature to allow teams to play ( specific) teams and not only 8v8 but anything from 1v1 to 8v8 or 12v12 or whatever the maximum will be.

The time is overdue anyway to invest some development time into the social aspects of MWO, long before CW.

Galenit, on 26 February 2013 - 03:59 AM, said:

That would be right, if there where no teams that enjoy pugstomping,
A lobby will only bring better teamgames, but why should a bad team go to a lobby and find games against better players, if they can continuing pugstomps?
A lobby is a solution for the honorable teams locking for good fights against other teams, but not for the pugs/stompteam problem.

Because a bad team will also find an other similar bad team on the lobby to play against ^^
And once a lobby is in place, PUGS should be able to choose if they are willing to fill a drop with a premade inside.
Or groups should be taken away from the pug queue at all.

So still it stands: first enable team play, then take the groups from the pugs.

[Captain Midnight]

PhoenixFire55, on 26 February 2013 - 03:54 AM, said:

PGI claims that the majority of players are 'lone wolves'. If that is the case then the situation when 8 man team is dropping against 8 man PUG team (let alone 8 man PUG newbies team) should occur like 1 time in a 100. I don't see a problem. Unless of course 'lone wolves' are not actually the majority.

The situation where 8 pug players is placed vs. 8 premades would be rare on behalf of the PUGs, but it would approach 100% on behalf of the premades. If 99% of the games are PUG vs. PUG then the Premade will simply pull a PUG group as opposition every time. It might ALWAYS be a different pug group, but the drubbing will never change. The problem is that even if they only lose one out of a hundred games, it's just not fair for the PUG players to sit in queue and then lose automatically.

This is very similar to people not realizing how much of a problem it is to have a 2 minute time limit on queues as presently stands. You, in a 4 assault premade, might wait 2 minutes EVERY SINGLE ROUND. But I, in a medium, will wait 0 seconds (because after 2 minutes it instantly matches you with the first available group) and place against you instantly. This favours groups who choose ridiculous compositions (like say I dunno 0/6/0/2) who will search for 2 minutes and then draw pure pugs.

You'll play different people every single game, because they are all singles pulled into a team whereas you queued as a team, the singles won't stand a chance. This is pure abuse and if teams ONLY played other teams you'd see a *TON* of very poor quality teams disband and start queuing solo instead of pug stomp.

Edited by Captain Midnight, 26 February 2013 - 04:09 AM.

[Cybermech]

First off its beta, puggers are always right and I'm God

second I'm lost on were this anger is coming from, I see most complain about groups in "group hating threads".
I sync drop now and again and I do it to be on the enemy team (really miss 16 group drops).
I read the first page and did not see one link for this OP to be even discussed about.

I'm really lost on why you don't feel the pain of those who log on only to the spanked over and over again.
These people need to vent somewhere so let them, if it stops them from rage quiting then it should give them enough time to improve their skills.

Matchmaking is clearly top priority for PGI/IGP, so don't expect things around group work to get done until matchmaking is in a good way.

[Thirdstar]

Cybermech, on 26 February 2013 - 04:10 AM, said:

First off its beta, puggers are always right and I'm God

second I'm lost on were this anger is coming from, I see most complain about groups in "group hating threads".
I sync drop now and again and I do it to be on the enemy team (really miss 16 group drops).
I read the first page and did not see one link for this OP to be even discussed about.

I'm really lost on why you don't feel the pain of those who log on only to the spanked over and over again.
These people need to vent somewhere so let them, if it stops them from rage quiting then it should give them enough time to improve their skills.

Matchmaking is clearly top priority for PGI/IGP, so don't expect things around group work to get done until matchmaking is in a good way.

Lets be fair though, an early implementation of Lobby would have nipped many an issue in the bud.

[Galenit]

PhoenixFire55, on 26 February 2013 - 03:54 AM, said:

PGI claims that the majority of players are 'lone wolves'. If that is the case then the situation when 8 man team is dropping against 8 man PUG team (let alone 8 man PUG newbies team) should occur like 1 time in a 100. I don't see a problem. Unless of course 'lone wolves' are not actually the majority.

Lets do math:
If there is in 1 of 2 drops a 8 man involved we have 8 of 32 players in a premade, thats 25%
If in every game a 4 man is involved thats 25% too.

25% premadeplayers are the minority but can influence 50-100% of the games...

Dont want to post this again and again, but basic math seems difficult: http://mwomercs.com/...ost&pid=1860021

Edited by Galenit, 26 February 2013 - 04:16 AM.

[Major Derps]

I was waiting for one of these to pop up, I'm a pug, from my point of view, I have no problem with premades. My problems, are with; A) the matchmaking allowing 1 team to have 1 or more premades, while the other had none, (apparently fixed now)and allowing assault lances; and the smart ***, **** talking premades talking tough while their buddies are there to back them up. The general, respectful premade, who just play and kickass, I have no problem with.

Hell, I wouldn't even care if I got dropped in with a 7 man to fill the gaps, just so long as things are even (ie. the enemy have 1 pug).

[Captain Midnight]

Mokey Mot, on 26 February 2013 - 04:14 AM, said:

I was waiting for one of these to pop up, I'm a pug, from my point of view, I have no problem with premades. My problems, are with; A) the matchmaking allowing 1 team to have 1 or more premades, while the other had none, (apparently fixed now)and allowing assault lances; and the smart ***, **** talking premades talking tough while their buddies are there to back them up. The general, respectful premade, who just play and kickass, I have no problem with.

Hell, I wouldn't even care if I got dropped in with a 7 man to fill the gaps, just so long as things are even (ie. the enemy have 1 pug).

Your opinion of "I wouldn't mind being the only PUG in a 7 man team, as long as I was against a 7 man team and one lone wolf" is what I expect the majority of players to hold as an opinion. That is a fair and reasonable opinion. PGI thinks that 8 of YOU, chosen at random, ought to play 8 of ME, chosen BY ME, in mechs chosen BY ME, running down the grid lines chosen BY ME, focusing the specific one of you, followed by the next one of you, that is chosen BY ME.

...THAT is the problem.

Edited by Captain Midnight, 26 February 2013 - 04:18 AM.

[Zylo]

Thirdstar, on 26 February 2013 - 04:13 AM, said:

Lets be fair though, an early implementation of Lobby would have nipped many an issue in the bud.

Private games run with a lobby system are open to exploits if these matches were to give rewards.

Lets say a group of 8 wants to grind XP on new mechs. They form their group of 8 and host a private game.

Sounds good right?

Now what if I told you each player in this group had a second account to use as targets. See where I'm going with this? The 8 target accounts join the game as the enemy team and just remain inactive at the drop point. The group of 8 takes each target mech apart to score the highest C-bill and XP totals before killing the target mechs.

This is why PGI probably will never do private games with rewards. Too many cheaters would exploit private games in this way.


I do want to see unrated private games without rewards for practice as well as tournament use.

Edited by Zylo, 26 February 2013 - 04:22 AM.

[Starburster]

Threads like this make me recall why I am close to pulling a Rip Van Winkle on this game

[Moonsavage]

For the record - this thread was posted by a team player... as are all threads on this subject.

Voice comms are an advantage over typed communication. Why should solo people not feel cheated when they get beaten by a lance of 4 players who can instantly switch targets and call threats?

But I'm not saying anything about the game should change, as ELO balancing should hopefully sort out the imbalances.

For the record, my KDR has gone up by 0.4 % since ELO phase 1, and that's a lot for a Solo player.

[Thirdstar]

Starburster, on 26 February 2013 - 04:22 AM, said:

Threads like this make me recall why I am close to pulling a Rip Van Winkle on this game

I don't think this game is going to be around in 20 years

[Galenit]

grayson marik, on 26 February 2013 - 04:05 AM, said:

So still it stands: first enable team play, then take the groups from the pugs.

My order is more like this:

Quickchat (helps team+pug coordination, voiceplayers dont use textchat that often, pugs dont use voice often, quickchat: both can and will use it to coordinate. Just 3 keys, that can be used in battle between cooldown of weapons)

Lobby + Pug/Team seperation (should come together)

Edited by Galenit, 26 February 2013 - 04:31 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

This weekend I found out that playing with a Premade team adds roughly a 15% bonus to my win loss ability. However it does not affect my K/D ability in any perceptible fashion. So if you want more wins join a team on comms. If you just want to play the game on your own merits, PUG. But accept you will not win as much. I won 47% of my Matches in the Hero tourney, and even in my losses I scored in the top three more often than not. I did good. When I got rolled the whole team got rolled usually too.

So seriously, If what you want is to jump into a giant robot and have some fun, I proved it can be done over & over & over for three days. Roughly every 8 minutes for 4-14 hours.