156 replies to this topic

[Aethon]

What follows is just my opinion; I am not claiming it represents everyone, or I know everything, etc...but I am curious if I am the only one who happens to feel this way.

After having given in a week or so, I see ELO as the worst thing to happen to MWO ever. Worse than ECM, worse than the closed beta missiles that always landed on your head, worse than the gigantic Atlas head hitbox from those days, worse than the 11ML Swayback...it tops them all, on my list at least.

Anymore, regardless of my performance in any given match, I am starting to feel like I am simply rolling the dice anymore. It is all a matter of how stupid the pugs in my match are, because the 1-3 guys I drop with cannot always drag the pugs kicking and screaming to victory, in spite of their best efforts to the contrary.

This is why I ended up giving up on WOT, in spite of owning all the tier 10 heavies, tier 9 TD's and mediums, etc.; I want to feel as though my contributions to my team actually matter. When I am consistently scoring 2-3 kills and 500 or better damage and some assists, as well as the 2-3 guys I drop with, it feels pretty pointless to even try, when we still lose more than half the time. I am not talking about losing to cappers, I am talking about all 4-5 pugs on my team just dying without doing anything. All I want is to feel like I am making some sort of difference.

Anyway, this is just my opinion, but...am I the only one? Also, I apologize if this comes off as an angry rant...although I am feeling more disappointed than angry at the moment, lol.

[One Medic Army]

I felt the same when playing with a 4man group, though in my case it's a roll of the dice as to if the matchup is fair in mech selection (like one team all ECM light+assault vs nothing but mediums and heavies).
However, things drastically improved when we're only at 2 people, and are a little better at 3.
It also improves if we all are using different weight classes of mech.

I think it's just the matchmaker struggling to find balanced matches for a group of people with different Elo scores and pre-selected weight classes, while still keeping wait times to a minimum.

Solo PUG play is leaps and bounds improved, however, to the point I will gladly jump in a few PUG matches with a new loadout. The quality of PUG matches is at a much higher level for me personally.

[Bilbo]

It will take time to get your Elo score settled in. I saw the same problem you describe while piloting lights this weekend, because I never run them. My experience while piloting the other weight classes were what I expected to get, as I had run a ton of matches in each.

[armyof1]

I'm not entirely certain what you're trying to say to be honest. Didn't you often see quite a few players in your team that were pretty much clueless how to play even before ELO? The difference now as I perceive it is that the more clueless players are more evenly distributed between the teams, which I think is an improvement but of course not an optimal solution. Honestly I think there should be a separate queue for all the first-time beginners for like the first 50-100 matches or so, then they can learn the game without being massacred within a minute by players that know what they're doing, at least until they roll out the practice area where you can test out a mech at your own leisurely pace.

[Aethon]

Well, we usually drop with different weight classes; I usually prefer heavies and mediums, but have been toying with Jenners lately. Others generally take a mix of mediums, heavies, and assaults.

As for numbers, we usually end up just dropping in a few groups of 3 each, sometimes more or less.

As for pugging, I could care less, to be honest (not trying to be a jerk, but I drop with my friends in the Ghost Bears; I never have any reason to pug)...I find it...questionable, to sacrifice the quality of group matches to satisfy players who do not want to play in groups, in a game that is supposedly built around team play.

[Thirdstar]

One Medic Army, on 26 February 2013 - 03:14 AM, said:

Solo PUG play is leaps and bounds improved, however, to the point I will gladly jump in a few PUG matches with a new loadout. The quality of PUG matches is at a much higher level for me personally.

What he ^ said. I'm a PUG and my matches have been quite awesome, close fights, very very rare stomps. So the MM3 and elo has been great for me.

Must be a team thing.

Also a fully functional elo system will move a majority of players to 50% W/L ratio. Why do you have an issue with this?

Aethon, on 26 February 2013 - 03:26 AM, said:

I find it...questionable, to sacrifice the quality of group matches to satisfy players who do not want to play in groups, in a game that is supposedly built around team play.

Yeah, solidly moved into jerk territory there with your claim. I WAS taking your seriously there for second. Oh well.

Edited by Thirdstar, 26 February 2013 - 03:31 AM.

[armyof1]

But I still wonder how it was less a roll of a dice how good your current team you've been placed in is before ELO was implemented? If anything I find the extremes were happening a lot more often at least for me with 8-0 and 8-1 matches being more the rule than the exception.

[Bilbo]

armyof1, on 26 February 2013 - 03:31 AM, said:

But I still wonder how it was less a roll of a dice how good your current team you've been placed in is before ELO was implemented? If anything I find the extremes were happening a lot more often at least for me with 8-0 and 8-1 matches being more the rule than the exception.

You weren't getting matched with equally skilled players on the other side before Elo was implemented.

[KinLuu]

Groups and soloplayers need to be completely split. There must be two seperate queues.

Groups have a massive negative impact on the enjoyment of soloplayers and vice versa.

It is almost impossible to keep both happy as long as they are mixed in the same queue.

[armyof1]

Bilbo, on 26 February 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

You weren't getting matched with equally skilled players on the other side before Elo was implemented.

Yeah that's what I think too, so shouldn't that mean you're less in a situation where you feel your actions are pointless, because with more equal teams what you can contribute with by having a better game will make a bigger difference whether you win or lose?

[KinLuu]

armyof1, on 26 February 2013 - 03:39 AM, said:

Yeah that's what I think too, so shouldn't that mean you're less in a situation where you feel your actions are pointless, because with more equal teams what you can contribute with by having a better game will make a bigger difference whether you win or lose?

If a couple of high elo players are grouping up, the matchmaker tends to fill the rest of the team with players of lower elo. It seems to be to hard for it to find enough high elo players for both teams and it prioritizes the team without a group.

[Thirdstar]

armyof1, on 26 February 2013 - 03:39 AM, said:

Yeah that's what I think too, so shouldn't that mean you're less in a situation where you feel your actions are pointless, because with more equal teams what you can contribute with by having a better game will make a bigger difference whether you win or lose?

Actually no. Quite the opposite. Previously a very skilled player was able to swing the match because others on both teams were less skilled.

Now, given that the MM is working correctly, since everyone is of similar skill the individual ability to effect match outcome is lessened, not increased.

[Salticidae]

I think you are right it is the worst thing they have done, i've not enjoyed the game in the past 3 days, the weight diffrence on the teams is insane and im still seeing 8-0 stomps.

[Aethon]

Bilbo, on 26 February 2013 - 03:19 AM, said:

It will take time to get your Elo score settled in. I saw the same problem you describe while piloting lights this weekend, because I never run them. My experience while piloting the other weight classes were what I expected to get, as I had run a ton of matches in each.

It is happening regardless of my weight class; I never used a Jenner until a couple hours ago (finding it a lot of fun, too). I am more of a medium/heavy guy, so that category should be well-recorded for me, I would think.

armyof1, on 26 February 2013 - 03:22 AM, said:

I'm not entirely certain what you're trying to say to be honest. Didn't you often see quite a few players in your team that were pretty much clueless how to play even before ELO? The difference now as I perceive it is that the more clueless players are more evenly distributed between the teams, which I think is an improvement but of course not an optimal solution. Honestly I think there should be a separate queue for all the first-time beginners for like the first 50-100 matches or so, then they can learn the game without being massacred within a minute by players that know what they're doing, at least until they roll out the practice area where you can test out a mech at your own leisurely pace.

I wonder if the clueless players are stuck on the team with the best few players, to even the overall score...

[armyof1]

KinLuu, on 26 February 2013 - 03:41 AM, said:

If a couple of high elo players are grouping up, the matchmaker tends to fill the rest of the team with players of lower elo. It seems to be to hard for it to find enough high elo players for both teams and it prioritizes the team without a group.

Hmm maybe there really are too few players of MWO to make ELO work to its' fullest by packing in high ELO teams with high ELO lonewolfs on both sides. Well not much to do about that except hope for more new players getting into and getting better at the game. And for that to work we most certainly need ELO to avoid the worst newbie farming that will scare off most MWO beginners.

[Thirdstar]

armyof1, on 26 February 2013 - 03:47 AM, said:

Hmm maybe there really are too few players of MWO to make ELO work to its' fullest by packing in high ELO teams with high ELO lonewolfs on both sides. Well not much to do about that except hope for more new players getting into and getting better at the game. And for that to work we most certainly need ELO to avoid the worst newbie farming that will scare off most MWO beginners.

As the Devs have pointed out, it will take WEEKS not days to sort out everyone's stable Elo rankings. Sorting everything out was 9/10s the reason behind the 'tournament'.

I recommend patience.

[PhoenixFire55]

Thirdstar, on 26 February 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

What he ^ said. I'm a PUG and my matches have been quite awesome, close fights, very very rare stomps. So the MM3 and elo has been great for me.

Must be a team thing.

Yeah, solidly moved into jerk territory there with your claim. I WAS taking your seriously there for second. Oh well.

So... your a PUG, game got better for you. Now there is a team person, game got worse for him. And you call him a jerk when he questions the decision that makes game worse for him? Now who is being a jerk?

Thirdstar, on 26 February 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

Also a fully functional elo system will move a majority of players to 50% W/L ratio. Why do you have an issue with this?

Because there is nothing fair when skilled players win 50% of their games and get same amount of exp and c-bills as non-skilled players who win 50% of their games. No motivation to improve yourself, encouragement of noobness, yes, I have an issue with THIS.

[KinLuu]

If you look at games like LoL, that have a much bigger playerpool, it takes much longer to find a game on high elo than in MWO.

I feel that the MM prioritizes waiting times very strongly.

[Aethon]

Thirdstar, on 26 February 2013 - 03:49 AM, said:

As the Devs have pointed out, it will take WEEKS not days to sort out everyone's stable Elo rankings. Sorting everything out was 9/10s the reason behind the 'tournament'.

I recommend patience.

I thought they were seeding this stuff for the past couple weeks, or longer...or did I mis-read that? o_O

[Thirdstar]

PhoenixFire55, on 26 February 2013 - 03:50 AM, said:

Because there is nothing fair when skilled players win 50% of their games and get same amount of exp and c-bills as non-skilled players who win 50% of their games. No motivation to improve yourself, encouragement of noobness, yes, I have an issue with THIS.

Why don't you just come out and say you want to PUGstomp, because you're clearly NOT looking for any kind of challenge.

You also seem to care a LOT about how much EXP and C-Bills other people are making.

Aethon, on 26 February 2013 - 03:51 AM, said:

I thought they were seeding this stuff for the past couple weeks, or longer...or did I mis-read that? o_O

Two weeks approx before the MM3 changes went in. The Devs say it will be a few more weeks before things stabilize, they're also planning to tweak things based on the data they've collected so far.