209 replies to this topic

[Suki]

Antonio, on 26 February 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

Cut the engine rating to 250? Since when is 60-something (with default engine of 260) the speed of a medium? A1s are the only Cat boating SRMs so making the changes you suggest would hurt the other Cats.

You forgot about Dragon - it's a lot faster, lets nerf it too.

SpartanFiredog317, on 26 February 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

.....Most engagements take place sub 200, and its easy enough to sneak up on people.... the problem with Cats, is they don't have any blind spots, and they are fast enough that once in range, you will be lucky to get out. They need to be slower, and have to worry about THEIR position a lot more than they do currently. They don't have a backside, or much of a downside. cover is extremely easy to come by in this game... disengaging from a close fight not so much.

Most engagement take place where the players place them. Half the matches today I see are sniping PPC/Gauss + LRMs 900+ meters.

[Franchi]

Suki, on 26 February 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

Are You on smthing or didn't try other mechs?
There are better PPC boats - Awesome and Stalker.
There are better LRM boats - Awesome, Stalker, Atlas.
There is better SRM/SSRM boat - Stalker.
not shure about ballistics, I don't use them.

Strictly speaking the catapult is better than any other mech at two things, The K2 can boat 2 massive ballistics, and the A1 is the best SRM boat.

For every other role there is a mech that is better, in a game that allows as much min/maxing as this one, if a build isn't the best at what it does only people who enjoy being gimped, don't know any better or have to level the variant to unlock another mech will play it.

Edited by Franchi, 26 February 2013 - 08:51 PM.

[Thorn Hallis]

SpartanFiredog317, on 26 February 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

.....Most engagements take place sub 200, and its easy enough to sneak up on people....

Only if you let them - and then its YOUR fault.

[Garfuncle]

Whatever. People can sit in their delusional little fantasy worlds where apparently having one mech trample on clearly defined mech roles is apparently perfectly fine game balance. Maybe if you theorycraft and spreadsheet to your heart's content you can come up with an Atlas that can scout, apparently. In the meantime, the majority of people aren't either:

A--complete idiots.

B--wishing for one mech to continue to sail-boat where no boat has gone before.

C--mouth-breathing dimwits who continue to spout: "LRN 2 PLY" when balance issues are explored in a freaking beta where balance issues SHOULD be explored before they make it into release.

[Rhent]

Suki, on 26 February 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

Are You on smthing or didn't try other mechs?
There are better PPC boats - Awesome and Stalker.
There are better LRM boats - Awesome, Stalker, Atlas.
There is better SRM/SSRM boat - Stalker.
not shure about ballistics, I don't use them.

PPC and LRM boats depends on your play style. A Cat or Phract w/ JJ's played properly is more effective than Stalker or Awesome for PPC/LRM's. I've snuck up in City atop buildings via JJ and rained down unholy hell of LRM fire on mechs at 300M. I could not do that as a Stalker or Awesome. You can poptart w/ Cat/Phracts as well. And frankly with a fast CAT LRM Boat with torso turn against a slow Assault you rain down LRM fire torso turned while running away. The Assaults are great for massed fire, but the heavies do have maneuverability to help make up for their lack of tonnage.

[Suki]

Praehotec8, on 26 February 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

It would be better to limit the ability of the A-1 to carry all SRMs better yet, balance the game's weapon systems such that more balanced loadouts are favored. Splatcats aren't that hard to kill. I get killed more by ECM lights with streaks than splatcats.

Then they had to limit Laser/PPC boats. IT's that simple, are You ready to loose Your favorite laser/ppc boats?

[Garfuncle]

Quote

IT's that simple, are You ready to loose Your favorite laser/ppc boats?

Yes, because we already have a system of mech roles where we clearly can't boat everything we want on any mech we want. Specific boats for specific mechs. Increases diversity, the worth of all mechs based on their individual and unique abilities, and makes balanced builds more viable when you can't run everything on a certain mech.

[KharnZor]

Rhent, on 26 February 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

I'm tired of reading posts from people thinking 2 Dimensionally. You read the Battletech Technical Readout 3025 and are trying to use a paid bit of writing from 1986 to apply to a video game with their own house rules. I get it, you don't like the house rules. So you come to the forums discussing about how "Cat's are Fire Support Mechs". I play MWO. I've been playing Battletech since the boxed set. I've been playing Mechwarrior as a video game since the first Mechwarrior. I've been playing online Mechwarrior since Kesmai for Kurita. All versions of the game have had their own house rules. I've learned how to play within the rules and do quite well.

I take it you can't?



Situation awareness is hard
Griping on the forums about builds you can't counter is easy

-If you can't play by the House Rules, go to the forums, dig up any arcane source material possible and then try to use that to justify your point of view.

It doesn't work. I hate ECM how its implemented. It's three things in one. I mount at least 1 PPC on any mechs with lock on weapons to compensate for it. Drive on and learn how to deal with the house rules.

Tell me, at what point have i stated that i cant counter a cat cheese build? At what point did i mention anything about not liking house rules and the rest of the drivel you have spouted?

I'll make this easy for your simple little mind to grasp. Not at any point. Do yourself a service and read what my post was actually about instead of these infantile knee-jerk rage replys.

Edited by KharnZor, 26 February 2013 - 09:00 PM.

[Rhent]

Garfuncle, on 26 February 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

Whatever. People can sit in their delusional little fantasy worlds where apparently having one mech trample on clearly defined mech roles is apparently perfectly fine game balance. Maybe if you theorycraft and spreadsheet to your heart's content you can come up with an Atlas that can scout, apparently. In the meantime, the majority of people aren't either:

A--complete idiots.

B--wishing for one mech to continue to sail-boat where no boat has gone before.

C--mouth-breathing dimwits who continue to spout: "LRN 2 PLY" when balance issues are explored in a freaking beta where balance issues SHOULD be explored before they make it into release.

And yet a lot of people can use their mini-map, can stay grouped, don't get ambushed from behind.

Personally, I like running a 4PPC Stalker w/ 4 Streaks + 1 AMS. I watch the map, and look where people are fighting. As soon as a see a catapult running to mele, I start unloading PPC fire on the Cat. If the Cat is a splatcat and he's dumb he charges me and I kill him, if he's smart he runs away from the frackas. I only need 2 volleys of 4 PPC's to kill the Splatcat at range in one spot. And frankly, with one PPC blast to the toros and 4 SSRMS + alternating my PPC's at range, I win, Splatcat lose.

[Suki]

Rhent, on 26 February 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

PPC and LRM boats depends on your play style. A Cat or Phract w/ JJ's played properly is more effective than Stalker or Awesome for PPC/LRM's. I've snuck up in City atop buildings via JJ and rained down unholy hell of LRM fire on mechs at 300M. I could not do that as a Stalker or Awesome. You can poptart w/ Cat/Phracts as well. And frankly with a fast CAT LRM Boat with torso turn against a slow Assault you rain down LRM fire torso turned while running away. The Assaults are great for massed fire, but the heavies do have maneuverability to help make up for their lack of tonnage.

As LRM Stalker I laugh at the Catas trying to "rain unholy hell" on me and return almost twice the fire at them. Phracts are even easier kill. As for about PPC, I look almost in horror at what is doing my friend in Atlas whith onle 3 of them - 1-2 shots kills. Stalkers and Awesomes carry twice thatmuch.

[Rhent]

KharnZor, on 26 February 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

Tell me, at what point have i stated that i cant counter a cat cheese build? At what point did i mention anything about not liking house rules and the rest of the drivel you have spouted?

I'll make this easy for your simple little mind to grasp. Not at any point. Do yourself a service and read what my post was actually about instead of these infantile knee-jerk rage replys.

You brought up Mechs staying in their roles. I highly suggest you look at the game and how it works. Mechs can cross roles exceedingly well in this game. Expect people who boat and use mechs in different roles than you like to take a very vehement stance against people like yourself.

[Suki]

Garfuncle, on 26 February 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Yes, because we already have a system of mech roles where we clearly can't boat everything we want on any mech we want. Specific boats for specific mechs. Increases diversity, the worth of all mechs based on their individual and unique abilities, and makes balanced builds more viable when you can't run everything on a certain mech.

Think you'll be in minority. Who is "we already have". Untill there are other boats "we" does'nt have anything.

[Garfuncle]

Quote

-If you can't play by the House Rules, go to the forums, dig up any arcane source material possible and then try to use that to justify your point of view.

It doesn't work. I hate ECM how its implemented. It's three things in one. I mount at least 1 PPC on any mechs with lock on weapons to compensate for it. Drive on and learn how to deal with the house rules.

What a load of tripe. MWO is a game first and foremost, and games should be balanced. I don't give a damn about any of the TT stuff, none of it, if it impedes the game's balance and enjoyabillity. Solid game mechanics should come first over TT fluff--no exceptions. ECM is a dirrect buff for any mech for a measly amount of tonnage and this can be easily fixed by gutting it into seperate functions. Cats are imbalanced by being able to boat whatever they want while retaining armor, speed, and twist speed.

And in a beta of a GAME I would at least expect to see the devs attempt to balance things in their GAME. Even if they do go in different directions than what I would do, I would still be grateful because they are still striving for good game design.

NEVER should game design be impeded by fluff or the whims of a few pretentious players who are screaming "OMG LRN TO PLAY!" in, again, for the last time...

A beta where we SHOULD be seeing what works and what does not. People astound me on this forum by treating this game as a finished product already, when that is doubly false due to it being a beta AND being an online game that gets future updates.

[Tor6]

One variant of [CHASSIS A] might be questionably balanced! Nerf every variant of [CHASSIS A]!

Poptarting sniper Cataphract 3Ds are really good, better nerf all the cataphracts. Sorry Cataphract 2X, but your time of never being seen is up!

Raven3Ls are better than every other light mech in the game currently! Sorry 4X and 2X, we gotta nerf the whole lot of ya because we can't possibly use the chassis tweaks or weapon/equipment nerfs to deal with balance problems.

LRM boat stalkers are questionably OP against people that don't know what they're doing (and can be great on organized teams as dedicated fire support). Nerf every. Single. One.



Going after an entire chassis for questionable balance on one variant is shortsighted and hyperbolic and I hope you all take a good look at what you're advocating.

[Helbourne]

Bla bla bla, balance, bla, bla, balance, bla. I have some thoughts on this.

Umm no and hell no. Leave the Cats alone. They are fine. What this game needs is real missions. They need to give mechs traditional roles more important. Hopefully community warfare will help with that.

Why does everyone on these forums think everything has to be equal? I mean come on now, why dont they just make a small, medium and large generic looking robot. Now put generic looking weapons call them short, medium, and long range. Give them damage of 1, 2, 3. Speed of 1, 2, 3 and armor of (double values) 2, 4, 6 (got to make matches a bit longer).

[Asmosis]

Garfuncle, on 26 February 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Yes, because we already have a system of mech roles where we clearly can't boat everything we want on any mech we want. Specific boats for specific mechs. Increases diversity, the worth of all mechs based on their individual and unique abilities, and makes balanced builds more viable when you can't run everything on a certain mech.

I can boat whatever i want, on whatever chassis i want. Theres this thing called a mechlab, you should learn to use it. there is a stage beyond trial mechs.

[Garfuncle]

Quote

I highly suggest you look at the game and how it works. Mechs can cross roles exceedingly well in this game. Expect people who boat and use mechs in different roles than you like to take a very vehement stance against people like yourself.

Then build an Atlas that can scout like a light. Or a light that can brawl like a Cataphract. Or a Cicada that can tank like an assault. Oh wait, you're spouting nonsensical drivel because we can't do any of that. We have things like tonnage, size, hardpoint layout, speed, and range of engines you can fit that all define what the developers have clearly stated as mech roles. MWO is a class-based game. Saying otherwise isn't true, unless you are talking about the Cat that is currently behaving like an Omnimech. And when we DO get Clan mechs, you can bet that fluff will be thrown out the window for the sake of balance.

Because if we go by fluff then this game would isntantly be worthless.

Quote

Theres this thing called a mechlab, you should learn to use it. there is a stage beyond trial mechs.

Then build me a scouting Atlas with your mechlab magic. Oh wait...tonnage, size, hardpoints, engines, common sense...

Edited by Garfuncle, 26 February 2013 - 09:15 PM.

[Rhent]

Garfuncle, on 26 February 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

Then build an Atlas that can scout like a light. Or a light that can brawl like a Cataphract. Or a Cicada that can tank like an assault. Oh wait, you're spouting nonsensical drivel because we can't do any of that. We have things like tonnage, size, hardpoint layout, speed, and range of engines you can fit that all define what the developers have clearly stated as mech roles. MWO is a class-based game. Saying otherwise isn't true, unless you are talking about the Cat that is currently behaving like an Omnimech. And when we DO get Clan mechs, you can bet that fluff will be thrown out the window for the sake of balance.

Because if we go by fluff then this game would isntantly be worthless.

We must be playing different games. Please let me know what game you are playing. Because you aren't playing Mechwarrior Online.

Asmosis said it best to you:
I can boat whatever i want, on whatever chassis i want. Theres this thing called a mechlab, you should learn to use it. there is a stage beyond trial mechs.

[KharnZor]

My original post.

KharnZor, on 26 February 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

Why so nasty?

I think to change the cat's OPness you'd have to go all the way back to the fundamental idea of what the cat is supposed to be. But you'd have to restrict it to its intended role. Needless to say you'd then have to do it to ALL mechs and we all know something like that is never going to happen. Only thing that can be done i think without making sweeping changes to the game is to simply learn the tactics to combat them and wait for future mech releases that may offer an effective counter.
And by all means continue to b**ch about it. I know i will no doubt.

Note: The bolded area is where you have mistaken the intent of my post. What i should have said to make it clearer so that you would be able to understand with your remedial reading ability was " the perceived fundamental idea"

Now read the underlined. I'm sure i dont have to say anything else.

Rhent, on 26 February 2013 - 09:02 PM, said:

You brought up Mechs staying in their roles. I highly suggest you look at the game and how it works. Mechs can cross roles exceedingly well in this game. Expect people who boat and use mechs in different roles than you like to take a very vehement stance against people like yourself.

Now on to your reply. I know how the game works so you can stop trying to imply as such in a childish manner.
People like myself? really? I could care less about what you have to say you narrow minded little toad. You push your opinion down other peoples throats with little regard to their thoughts or opinion in a highly aggressive manner so you know what that makes you? One of 'those people'. Have fun with that.

[Garfuncle]

Quote

I can boat whatever i want, on whatever chassis i want. Theres this thing called a mechlab, you should learn to use it. there is a stage beyond trial mechs.

Quote

“If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth. ”