78 replies to this topic

[BoydofZINJ]

Terror Teddy, on 28 February 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

And here's the kicker - you cant remove internals on an omnimech since they are essentially built from the ground up as one integrated machine instead of different parts.

Actually there is a huge difference between OMNI mechs and Standard mechs. We use Standard mechs, by the way. An OmniMech is a (sub-)type of BattleMech that does not feature a fixed weapon configuration, but instead has the ability to replace or change its loadout with modular OmniMech-compatible Omni-pods. Omni-pods can be a wide range of weapon systems and even a limited selection of structural components. Therefore, the capabilities of an OmniMech are only limited by the amount of pod space it possesses (both in mass and bulk), and reconfiguration time. Standard Mechs had fixed hardpoints. As a result, I would assume, they would be easier to configure. Balisitcs, missiles, or beams could go in any hardpoint - i would imagine.

[Kraven Kor]

FrostCollar, on 28 February 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

That's nominally true. However, if we're going strictly by canon then we shouldn't be able to muck around with anything on a non-omnimech at all, or at least not without forking over loads of cash for all sorts of custom engineering, right?

Eh, TT was never 100% clear on that. It had all the rules for field refits and whatnot, with different modifications taking different amounts of time, money, or required equipment (for instance, changing a mech from standard to Endo Steel structure could only be done in a full mech factory or repair facility - not in a dropship or with a mobile repair and rearm deal.)

The "fluff text" seemed to indicate that modifying a mech was very rare, difficult, and expensive, but most people just ignored that unless running tournament rules or whatever.

[Terror Teddy]

FrostCollar, on 28 February 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

That's nominally true. However, if we're going strictly by canon then we shouldn't be able to muck around with anything on a non-omnimech at all, or at least not without forking over loads of cash for all sorts of custom engineering, right?

Not Engines or Internals but weapon swaps would be easy. Engine rating swould be locked but the advantages are sitll huge:
50% less size of internals (14 more slots than a similary upgraded IS mech)
Smaller XL engines (less crit chance)
Smaller weapons
Less bulky double heatsinks
More armor on Ferro Fibrous armor
More HP from endo steel

An Firemoth is 4,2 mil for a 20 tonner and the D variant have 5 medium clan pulse lasers and a flamer - the latter most likely replaced for a total of 6 pulse lasers...

At 160KM/H it will be a pain in the patookus.

[Phoenix Gray]

Heffay, on 28 February 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

Oh, that's right. We're still testing them.

Just for the record, kerosene makes a sucky coolant.

[Heffay]

Special thanks to House Steiner for their rather significant order! We suspect they are attempting to buy out the inventory to keep them out of your hands, but we consider all c-bills equal in the eyes of the merc corp.

Where would you rather see these UAC20s? Your mech, or the Steiner Atlas scout you're facing?! Buy today!

[Merky Merc]

Thontor, on 28 February 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

whos to say the clan tech will even be available to us inner sphere freebirths? who's to say the clans will even use cbills as their currency?

keep em separate, no mixed tech.. no mixed teams.. balance the clans by fewer mechs per team than IS

Clan Diamond back sez, "Buy our things Inner Spheroids".

And I would take a star vs 8 Is mechs any day of the week. Lol focus fire the battlemechs.

FrostCollar, on 28 February 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

That's nominally true. However, if we're going strictly by canon then we shouldn't be able to muck around with anything on a non-omnimech at all, or at least not without forking over loads of cash for all sorts of custom engineering, right?

Sounds true to me, and what's the point of a military vehicle if you can't rip the engine out to repair it? Clans abhor waste, so pulling the engine to repair sounds less wasteful than scraping a mech.

[Terror Teddy]

Boydsan, on 28 February 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

As a result, I would assume, they would be easier to configure. Balisitcs, missiles, or beams could go in any hardpoint - i would imagine.

Yes, weapons are easily exchangeable but all INTERNALS are locked.
If it comes equipped with Clan XL engine 240 and Endo Steel you cannot remove any of it on that variant without essentially turning it into a standard mech.

[Terror Teddy]

Merky Merc, on 28 February 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

Sounds true to me, and what's the point of a military vehicle if you can't rip the engine out to repair it? Clans abhor waste, so pulling the engine to repair sounds less wasteful than scraping a mech.

Of course you can, but the chassis is also designed around just that exact type of engine so you cannot fit another type of engine in there - not without completely rebuilding the mech - that's the drawback of omnimechs, they are on a such a level of specialization and master craftmanship.

It's like comparing an old volvo where you pluck out the engine block and cram in another while trying to do the same on a F1 car.

[Nathan Foxbane]

FupDup, on 28 February 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

It seems strange (if not idiotic) as to why lore says the IS couldn't just apply the tech of their UAC5 to make a bigger gun (i.e. 10 or 20). The same goes with ER lasers, Streaks (add a few more missiles to the tube, herpaderp), and LBX.

To be fair all those weapons were lostech and only became newly availible in the past 25 or so years and for much of that they were experimental as much of what was required to build them had to be redeveloped. As for the logic of scaling and all well the only excuse there is plot. Some suspension of disbelief is required here.

Real world paralell is of all things, cannons. Started out smooth bore and was that way for well over 200 years, when rifling was developed to improve accuracy they switched over to that. During the Cold War is was realized that it is... difficult to use some of the more interesting direct fire ammunition types we take for granted today with a rifled gun. (Artillery and naval cannons are still rifled) All modern MBTs have smooth bore cannons and what are really high tech hybrids with the breech loading of rifled guns and the smooth bore of ye olde cannon. (this is a generalization the modern cannon is surprisingly complicated) Takes them a while to develope bigger and/or better guns even now. Scaling is not as simple as multiply bore size by x and increase charge by y or add a number of tubes to b missile system.

Edited by Nathan Foxbane, 28 February 2013 - 03:10 PM.

[Merky Merc]

Terror Teddy, on 28 February 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

Of course you can, but the chassis is also designed around just that exact type of engine so you cannot fit another type of engine in there - not without completely rebuilding the mech - that's the drawback of omnimechs, they are on a such a level of specialization and master craftmanship.

It's like comparing an old volvo where you pluck out the engine block and cram in another while trying to do the same on a F1 car.

So you can put a new engine in them is what I'm getting out of this.

[Phoenix Gray]

Royalewithcheese, on 28 February 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

One idea I've heard is that it will be 1 star (5 mechs) vs. 2 lances or 2 stars vs. 3 lances. That would capture the "clan tech is just better" and "in the Inner Sphere, no1curr about your zellbringen and bidding and whatever" angles. I'm a fan of clan technology being balanced but different - so maybe a clan LRM has no minimum range but does not follow targeted enemies through cover, or a ER Medium Laser is somewhere between an IS ML and LL in terms of heat/damage/range.

As far as canon goes, Clan tech was presented as being half again as good as Spheroid tech, so 2:1 odds would be fairly balanced. The challenge for IS mechs is to pick the terrain and tactics that offset the Clan advantages in speed, weapons range, cycle time and armor weight (hey, no pressure).. Don't forget, once you've got a lock, you can still ruin their day.

Oh, and Toads are OP. There. I said it first.

[Terror Teddy]

Merky Merc, on 28 February 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

So you can put a new engine in them is what I'm getting out of this.

No, the discussion in this case was about removing the engine for repairs - If an omnimech variant is designed with a Clan Ultralight XL 160 engine then that is the ONLY engine it can accept.

The volvo is the IS and the F1 is the Clan - crappy old vehicles are easily customizable with poor performance while super advanced cars are not.

Edited by Terror Teddy, 28 February 2013 - 03:11 PM.

[Caviel]

Heffay, on 28 February 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

We have production ones ready for sale, for only 18,000,000 each. 10% less explody than this one.

Slightly charred. We assure you it's strictly cosmetic.

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[Lightfoot]

Clan Tech.

[Terror Teddy]

Caviel, on 28 February 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

TINY WALL OF TEXT

This supersedes all previous notices.

That hurt my eyes,

[Khanahar]

Shameless plug for my clan implementation idea.

Tech must be kept separate, and some mechanism must be put in place to ensure everyone doesn't just jump ship immediately. See http://mwomercs.com/...ation-proposal/ for more!

Suggestions very welcome.

[Phoenix Gray]

Kraven Kor, on 28 February 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

Eh, TT was never 100% clear on that. It had all the rules for field refits and whatnot, with different modifications taking different amounts of time, money, or required equipment (for instance, changing a mech from standard to Endo Steel structure could only be done in a full mech factory or repair facility - not in a dropship or with a mobile repair and rearm deal.)

The "fluff text" seemed to indicate that modifying a mech was very rare, difficult, and expensive, but most people just ignored that unless running tournament rules or whatever.

The original Mercenaries' Handbook had a large section on salvage, rebuilds, scavenging and jury-rigging.

[Dirkdaring]

Davers, on 28 February 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

Every time i start thinking that the Clans can somehow be balanced against IS someone brings up the UAC/20 or SSRM6 and I wonder what the hell I was thinking.

Why use a streak SRM6 when you have a streak-lrm20?

[FupDup]

Dirkdaring, on 28 February 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

Why use a streak SRM6 when you have a streak-lrm20?

Why use a Streak LRM20 when you have a HAG-40?

[Gigastrike]

Screw the UAC/20. How much for the Dragon that can mount one?