198 replies to this topic

[liku]

too bad... every mechs can sports them... it's op let's remove them from the game.. or at least give them a max range of 90 meter and minimum of 45 meter.

let's starting to divide by zero, it will lead to a greater game!

[Zerstorer Stallin]

liku, on 01 March 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

too bad... every mechs can sports them... it's op let's remove them from the game.. or at least give them a max range of 90 meter and minimum of 45 meter.

let's starting to divide by zero, it will lead to a greater game!

God I hope your trolling, but in case you arent; I don't think people are saying that 1 SRM6 is the problem is the STACKING of several that are. Hopefully this will help you. Coming to the forums and saying HERP DERP doesnt really help.

[Aym]

Elizander, on 01 March 2013 - 12:13 AM, said:

It's a slightly moot argument considering we can aim weapons to hit whatever part we want in MWO (except LRMS probably). The same argument would go for 12 medium lasers or 4 ER PPCs. It's not just for SRMs.

I don't think it IS a moot point fellow Memester. The SRM is the only weapons (with the exception you already made for LRMs) that received a ROF and a Damage buff. Mlas and PPC's (which you mentioned) still do their TT damage, just faster. SRM's do MORE than TT damage AND do it faster. An alternative to nerfing damage (which I'm in favor of with Streaks at least...) would be reload time and heat, like they did with LRM's. More heat, longer reload for ALL SRM's, and less damage for streaks.

[Kmieciu]

SRM6 are so good that they make every ballistic weapon on CN9-A obsolete.
If CN9-A had 4 missile slots I would drop the two medium lasers and run with only 4xSRM6 @ 92 kph (STD260 engine).

I run SRM6 in every close-range build: Centurion, Atlas, Trebuchet, Dragon, Cataphract. When I design a brawler, first I put the maximum amount of SRM6's then I figure out what to do with the rest of the tonnage. Even a Commando or a Jenner equipped with SRMs is a fearsome backstabber.

When your mech starts to overheat, the correct strategy is to stop using lasers and shoot only the SRMs. That`s because they have so much better damage/heat ratio per second.

SRM6: 3,75 DPS / HPS.
Medium Laser: 1,25 DPS/HPS
The most efficient energy weapon is a small laser @ 1,5 DPS/HPS

The ideal brawler right now would be a mech capable of carrying 2xAC20 + lots of SRM6's.

Edited by Kmieciu, 01 March 2013 - 03:55 AM.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

Kmieciu, on 01 March 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

SRM6 are so good that they make every ballistic weapon on CN9-A obsolete.
If CN9-A had 4 missile slots I would drop the two medium lasers and run with only 4xSRM6 @ 92 kph (STD260 engine).

I run SRM6 in every close-range build: Centurion, Atlas, Trebuchet, Dragon, Cataphract. When I design a brawler, first I put the maximum amount of SRM6's then I figure out what to do with the rest of the tonnage. Even a Commando or a Jenner equipped with SRMs is a fearsome backstabber.

When your mech starts to overheat, the correct strategy is to stop using lasers and shoot only the SRMs. That`s because they have so much better damage/heat ratio per second.

SRM6: 3,75 DPS / HPS.
Medium Laser: 1,25 DPS/HPS
The most efficient energy weapon is a small laser @ 1,5 DPS/HPS

The ideal brawler right now would be a mech capable of carrying 2xAC20 + lots of SRM6's.

THIS.

[Joseph Mallan]

Inyc, on 28 February 2013 - 11:43 PM, said:

Specifically for brawlers (so forget LRMs), SRM6s are tied for 2nd place with Gauss as highest damage-per-hardpoint of any weapon. Only the AC/20 is higher. Of those three weapons, only the SRM6 can be equipped more than twice in a mech.

1 Artemis SRM6: 15 damage for 3 slots, 4 tons.
3 Medium Lasers: 15 damage for 3 slots, 3 tons.

Lets say ammo = heatsinks

Most missile hardpoints on a mech chassis is 6.

How many mechs get 18 energy hard points? Or even 9 they can stuff with Large Lasers? None. Forget about Ballistics too, since the most Ballistics hardpoints on a Mech is 4, and none of those chassis can get 4 Gauss or AC/20. Or even AC/10.

The result is anyone who wants a brawler needs a mech with as many missile slots for SRM6s as possible. Which obviously results in the Splatapult and those other mechs and chassis with 4 missile hardpoints (four Stalkers, one Awesone and one Catapult). This also trickles down into the 3 Missile hard-point chassis being best brawlers for that mech in most cases. Anyone trying to brawl with less because fodder for those that do.

I imagine dropping the damage to give SRM6s a more reasonable damage-per-hardpoint ratio would be a good plan (something like 12, down from 15), but because they are balanced as far as damage-per-tons and damage-per-slots goes, they'd need a counter buff of some kind. Possibly ammo-per-tons or cooldown. Or both.

Hunchback-4P 8 Medium Lasers.
Which Stalker can pack 6 PPCs?

SRMs hit with less Missiles the further out you get from your target. So the more risk you take the better pay off you get. Missiles also spread damage over the whole Mech. Is an SRM 6 a good weapon choice? Yes, yes it is. FYI SRM 6s only do 3 points more damage than TT, per salvo.

[Doc Holliday]

Lol. I've been saying SRMs are too strong since early December. No one listened. Now we have the "splatcat". And people think it's the chassis. LMAO.

[Broad5ide]

Inyc, on 01 March 2013 - 01:24 AM, said:

80 KM/H on a splat cat beats out all the assaults and heavies bar the Dragon. The Treb is faster, but the Hunchy and Cent have to give up much to break 90.

Awesomes can move faster than that and cents can break 90 with speak tweak in a standard engine easy

Edited by Broad5ide, 01 March 2013 - 05:35 AM.

[Cache]

Leave them alone, they're balanced. Besides their heat and explosive ammo, they have a 270 meter max range. Damage doesn't drop off after that, they just detonate. Can't say that for any other weapon to which they're being compared.

[Kmieciu]

Broad5ide, on 01 March 2013 - 05:34 AM, said:

Awesomes can move faster than that and cents can break 90 with speak tweak in a standard engine easy

What`s the best weapon to put on an awesome? 4xSRM6 :-)

[Joseph Mallan]

Doc Holliday, on 01 March 2013 - 05:08 AM, said:

Lol. I've been saying SRMs are too strong since early December. No one listened. Now we have the "splatcat". And people think it's the chassis. LMAO.

Doc we had SplatCats back in June. I drove one. One of the Lawmen drove one also. yes 6 SRM6s are powerful, But thats not the issue the issue is the number of launchers being put on one chassis. Personally I don't have a problem with them. they are a tough formidable platform. I say, good.

[Kmieciu]

Boating weapons is not a problem. Have you ever seen an A1 boating SRM2's or SRM4's? The answer is no, because both of them are inferior to SRM6.

The only time I have to decide between SRM6 and SRM4 is when I have 2 crit slots and 2 hard points, for example on JR7-D and DRG-1N. And I always take 2xSRM4 over 1xSRM6.

Edited by Kmieciu, 01 March 2013 - 06:18 AM.

[Michael Costanza]

Inyc, on 28 February 2013 - 11:43 PM, said:

Specifically for brawlers (so forget LRMs), SRM6s are tied for 2nd place with Gauss as highest damage-per-hardpoint of any weapon. Only the AC/20 is higher. Of those three weapons, only the SRM6 can be equipped more than twice in a mech.

1 Artemis SRM6: 15 damage for 3 slots, 4 tons.
3 Medium Lasers: 15 damage for 3 slots, 3 tons.

Lets say ammo = heatsinks

Most missile hardpoints on a mech chassis is 6.

How many mechs get 18 energy hard points? Or even 9 they can stuff with Large Lasers? None. Forget about Ballistics too, since the most Ballistics hardpoints on a Mech is 4, and none of those chassis can get 4 Gauss or AC/20. Or even AC/10.

The result is anyone who wants a brawler needs a mech with as many missile slots for SRM6s as possible. Which obviously results in the Splatapult and those other mechs and chassis with 4 missile hardpoints (four Stalkers, one Awesone and one Catapult). This also trickles down into the 3 Missile hard-point chassis being best brawlers for that mech in most cases. Anyone trying to brawl with less because fodder for those that do.

I imagine dropping the damage to give SRM6s a more reasonable damage-per-hardpoint ratio would be a good plan (something like 12, down from 15), but because they are balanced as far as damage-per-tons and damage-per-slots goes, they'd need a counter buff of some kind. Possibly ammo-per-tons or cooldown. Or both.

Actually your math is off because you forgot to add a crit slot and a ton for ammo. Your maximum damage is not determined by the number of SRM6s you have but the amount of ammo you have. Stacking SRM6s just allows you to go through your ammo faster.

[topgun505]

Correct. But. ALL weapons have, for the most part, kept their tabletop damage values. So by your logic ALL weapons are nerfed. SRMs however are at 2.5 (a 20% boost compared to TT values) AND their spread is not random like in TT (because any experienced brawler doesnt let them fly till they are nearly at point blank range) so they nearly all hit the same location and few missiles miss. So I think the OP does have a legit point that SRMs are more effective vs the other weapons in the game.

Aim64C, on 01 March 2013 - 12:08 AM, said:

I would just like to point out that in tabletop, SRMs do 2 points of damage per missile. Yet armor is only worth 16 points per ton (half of MWO).

By that, and that alone, all missiles are technically nerfed in comparison to tabletop varieties.

Plenty of brawlers out there do just fine without SRMs or with only a nominal addition of them.

Hell - I've done over 200 points of damage with 2 medium lasers in a catapult with torso-mounted lasers (it was an ECM **** fest against our team). And I'm not all that great with lasers. I'm just relatively decent at being somewhat difficult to kill. ... When I'm not doing something ********, that is.

So, I really don't have much in the way of sympathy for these crowds who like to say that SRMs are some kind of god weapon. I don't have that much of a problem with them, and other players do just fine, as well.

[3rdworld]

PPC sits alone in his office at the top of the meta world tower.

He menacingly chuckles to himself:

"Yes, lets nerf the srm6. Then my takeover will be complete."

[Kmieciu]

PPC is actually well balanced now. It`s a really tough decision when you have to decide between a PPC, or a large laser with 2 additional DHS. Or 3 ML with 4 DHS.

On the other hand, SRM2, SRM4 and SRM6 are not well balanced at all. Maybe if their cooldown was 3 / 4 / 5 seconds instead of 3.5 / 3.75 / 4, they would be more diversity in the mech builds.

Edited by Kmieciu, 01 March 2013 - 06:27 AM.

[3rdworld]

Kmieciu, on 01 March 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

PPC is actually well balanced now. It`s a really tough decision when you have to decide between a PPC, or a large laser with 2 additional DHS. Or 3 ML with 4 DHS.

On the other hand, SRM2, SRM4 and SRM6 are not well balanced at all. Maybe if their cooldown was 3 / 4 / 5 seconds instead of 3.5 / 3.75 / 4, they would be more diversity in the mech builds.

It is not tough at all. PPCs are so much better than LL or MLs that tonage is the only deciding factor. If you nerf SRMs into non use. You leave competitive 8s with nothing but 4PPC + Gauss RS, Pop-tarts, 3 PPC Pop-Trebs, and 3Ls.

SRMs being good is the only reason D-DCs and Cent-As are still used. D-DCs are becoming less and less fearsome as the uprising of the PPC continues.

Not to mention you remove the only solid counter to the sniper team, a freaking six-pack to the face.

Edited by 3rdworld, 01 March 2013 - 06:37 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Terror Teddy, on 01 March 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

Or perhaps have the SRM6 take 2 missile slots?

When I 10 ton 4 slot LRM 20 takes one?

That is just a tad silly.

[Terror Teddy]

Yokaiko, on 01 March 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

When I 10 ton 4 slot LRM 20 takes one?

That is just a tad silly.

yea, I redacted my post - I still think a ripple fire solution is better where it takes 0,5 seconds per 2 missiles

It would also make a choise between SRM2/4 as they would emty tubes faster.

Edited by Terror Teddy, 01 March 2013 - 07:41 AM.

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

Lets look at this from a different direction shall we?

All of our maps,aside from the very recent Alpine Valley are these tiny little maps and usually have lots of cover. Well of course brawling weapons like SRMs and AC/20s are going to be great here, all of our tactics we have refined are specifically tailored for these maps.

Take your Cent-A and A1 Cat into Alpine Valley loaded down with SRMs and you will find a significantly different experience from what you would find in River City.
The answer to this problem isn't changing the SRMs but introduction of more maps, large maps, where highly specialized mechs are at a disadvantage.