72 replies to this topic

[Adridos]

They simply picked wrong, imo.

Clint, Vindicator, Cent/Hunch, Blackjack, Crab would have been a much better roster.

Edited by Adridos, 01 March 2013 - 03:07 PM.

[Tickdoff Tank]

We do have a 45 tone mech on the way, but it is a few months out (Blackjack), no word yet on a 55 tonner, but the only real option for 55 tons is the Dervish. All of the other good 55 ton mechs are unseen.

[Kraven Kor]

Tickdoff Tank, on 01 March 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

We do have a 45 tone mech on the way, but it is a few months out (Blackjack), no word yet on a 55 tonner, but the only real option for 55 tons is the Dervish. All of the other good 55 ton mechs are unseen.

And I still just can't understand why they don't just scrap the artwork that is in IP Hell, use the name and description and make new art of the mech itself.

GIMME MAH WOLVERINE and just re-do the artwork from scratch

[Voidsinger]

The problem mediums face in MWO is due to their base design lacking specialisation. This means usually varied hardpoints. In tabletop, they could fill in anywhere. In MWO, the low base speed combines with engine caps, and the fact most mechs have 6 hardpoints to work against them.

They aren't lights, and most heavies equal them in speed. They lack the armour and weapon tonnage of heavies. Still, Cernturions are my favourite, and now with ELO giving games which are mostly assaults, a fast medium can act as a good filler for the light role, and with a balanced armament, fill a heavier role when lights dominate the Matchmaker.

[Ranek Blackstone]

Kraven Kor, on 01 March 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

And I still just can't understand why they don't just scrap the artwork that is in IP Hell, use the name and description and make new art of the mech itself.

GIMME MAH WOLVERINE and just re-do the artwork from scratch

It's not like they haven't redesigned every other mech we've got so far.

And most of them look better then the orginal concepts.

[Braggart]

Tonnage limits would do wonders to the medium usefulness.

Now mediums can take a decent amount of damage, but that doesnt show in mwo because heavies and assaults are be far the most common choices, with lights being on the other end.

Because the game is so very top heavy in terms of heavy and assaults, the amount of firepower being thrown around is more than a medium can take, and mediums are not nimble enough to evade damage like the lights.

So once we get tonnage limits. The amount of firepower will be much more favorable for the medium, who can take some hits, and dish some.

[Fate 6]

Ranek Blackstone, on 01 March 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

BV doesn't work because it assumes all die rolls are equal, and player skill is the key to a win here. A jenner can kill an Atlas with ease despite having a BV only a little over 1/3 that of the Atlas.

Weight doesn't help either except give the match maker MORE hoops to jump through, which leads to longer wait times and more fail to finds

That being said, I have been seeing more medium mechs when I pug these days, and they do pretty good. Not enough to take on my Cataphract, but good enough I have to work at it a bit.

We need to have a 1v1, my Cent versus your CTF. Next time you're on TS3.

Edited by Fate 6, 01 March 2013 - 11:25 PM.

[Merky Merc]

Don't worry OP just a few more years RL time and we get some sweet mediums.

Who doesn't want to wait 3 years?

[Jet Black Dog]

for what it's worth, I agree with the OP
... also, the shadowHawk - one of the 'posterboy' mechs, -as well as the similar Griffin and Wolverine(55 tonners), are amongst the 'reseen', along with Locust, Golaith... Battlemaster - the crusher joe mechs...

Really, medium mechs are supposed to be the 'workhorse' of the battletech universe - and as the game is now, they are.. marginal perhaps, and certainly not the most common.
The current trial mech being the cicada - the ?worst cicada - - an overgrown light - doesn't really give a fair impression either of the mediums for new players.
Hell, I'd be all for trial mechs being medium.

In any case, most matches now seem to be mostly heavies and assualts with a few light scouts/cappers.
Just a thought.

[Merky Merc]

Clan mediums bring the oomph back to mediums. And the IS response to that is.... medium mechs with some oomph behind them. Until those things happen, congrats we're running less capable heavies more or less.

[Sephlock]

http://mwomercs.com/...65#entry1969865

[Mr TeaTime]

Garfuncle, on 01 March 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

Medium mechs are in a precarious position atm.

Mediums are ALWAYS in a precarious position. Fluff wise Mediums are all a compromise between: speed, firepower, armour, weight and cost. They're pretty much the Jack-of-all-Trades when it comes to `Mechs.

The problem PGI have is that a lot of the 'go to' Mech's are either just on the wrong side of the Clan invasion, don't have three cannon variants to use (although nothing is stopping them just making that one Mech require 3x as much XP I guess) in the levelling system or are Unseen.

I can go rummaging through ebay and find a Phoenix Hawk for example (and paint it like Skull Leader just to be a 'Richard') but PGI can't. Once we're past the era of the Unseen things should get better...

Ranek Blackstone, on 01 March 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

And most of them look better then the orginal concepts.

The Stalker looks like a beast now, I'd actually like a mini of the chicken walker version in MWO rather than the BT humanoid knee one if I'm honest.

[Sephlock]

Just give us the option to fill the Founders Hunchback's hunch with cement and sandbags so it can actually be useful (as a damage sponge, at least) for longer than the first 3 seconds of any fight...

---

Also it would be nice if ECM was not so ridiculous ATM, to make it easier for mediums to serve as light hunters (with SSRMs).

Edited by Sephlock, 01 March 2013 - 11:47 PM.

[NocturnalBeast]

Zyllos, on 01 March 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Because they wield a weapon loadout compariable to light Heavys when they can take a smaller engine to move slowly.

Mediums will become much better once weight limits and more weapon balances are introduced.

With a 400t limit, do you take 8 50t Medium mechs or 2 Atlas, 4 Ravens, and 2 Commandos?

While I think most "conventional" thinking groups would go with the later option, some groups will begin to take the former option in an attempt to out manuver the high fire power of the 2 Atlas' and take out the Lights.

The latter group will have two D-DDCs, 4 3Ls and two Streak boat commandos, the mediums will have little chance unless they have a large number of ECM Cicadas.

We do need a 55 ton mech though, but I don't think that there are any non-clan 55 ton mediums that are not unseen mechs available in 3050.

Edited by Edward Steiner, 01 March 2013 - 11:51 PM.

[Alphawolf]

I will do you all one better, bring back repair and rearm at only 50% and you will see mediums return to the field. But so many of you cried that you could not make money, could not take out your uber cheese build each and every time, or could not do simple math to understand why you had no c-bills so PGI had to remove it. Cost was the best reason for mediums to be in.

[Merky Merc]

Alphawolf, on 01 March 2013 - 11:52 PM, said:

I will do you all one better, bring back repair and rearm at only 50% and you will see mediums return to the field. But so many of you cried that you could not make money, could not take out your uber cheese build each and every time, or could not do simple math to understand why you had no c-bills so PGI had to remove it. Cost was the best reason for mediums to be in.

Bad idea is bad. And you should feel bad.

[NocturnalBeast]

Adridos, on 01 March 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

They simply picked wrong, imo.

Clint, Vindicator, Cent/Hunch, Blackjack, Crab would have been a much better roster.

Vindicator would be cool. Blackjack is on the way.

[Thegreatdive]

It isn't so much that every medium is a jack-of-all-trades, but that the class as a whole is intended to fulfill essentially every role. Lights make crappy support mechs, assaults and heavies make horrible scouts, etc. But mediums are intended for niche roles, as a consequence however, they can't live up to the classes above and below them in those roles, as they lack the tonnage, speed, or firepower to truly perform better. I love my 4SP and 3M, and utilized in a striking, flanking role, mediums can find a niche of their own. This is why the successful medium mech pilots tend to load out their weapons around a larger than stock engine, building a loadout that fits a playstyle, rather than trying to invent a playstyle that fits a loadout that will have them slugging it out with mechs that outclass them.

Once the clan mediums start becoming available, especially the Stormcrow and Shadowcat imo, the speed, armor, firepower combination will be seen as an advantage rather than a burden.

[Voidsinger]

Our other issue with Mediums. Incentives to play.

Either tonnage limits, or reinstituting Reapir & Rearm would do wonders for the numbers of mediums on the battlefield.

Right now, there is no incentive to play them, and plenty of disincentive. All XP and C-bill bonuses are extremely slanted to the "doing damage" category, and with no Repair and Rearm, that makes Heavies and Assaults more attractive.

[Merky Merc]

Gimme dat ryoken and shadowcat with clan tech and medium mechs will be an osht mech again. Or a bushwacker with racs, or an uziel with snub nosed ppcs and SSRM6s. 100kph mediums as a standard, not as a some can do it if you strip them down situation.