61 replies to this topic

[Voidsinger]

I really wonder whether the ERPPC/PPC should be included in both Energy and Ballistic classes. It is the Energy Ballistic.

Due to the ability to shut down ECM, non-reliance on ammunition and recent buffs, I nominate it.

[Spinning Burr]

Voidsinger, on 02 March 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

I really wonder whether the ERPPC/PPC should be included in both Energy and Ballistic classes. It is the Energy Ballistic.

Due to the ability to shut down ECM, non-reliance on ammunition and recent buffs, I nominate it.

That subject has been debated and put to a vote. The community decided to reject ppc from the ballistic family on the grounds that it is not dakka. That was the vote and majority decision.

[The Silent Protagonist]

Ivanzypher, on 02 March 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

AC20.

I concur

[Mai Balzak]

ferranis, on 02 March 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

It is realy a thing of preference. I for example use lasers for accurate damage and balistics for the sheer dakka. Aim dead center torso and go for it style. So the uac5 is the natural choice.

Absolutely. It comes down to Sniping vs. Brawling, and how much time you're willing to put into the practice of a weapon.

Gauss is great for when you're limiting your exposure. You can unleash a crazy amount of damage in one shot. It has incredible range (2nd most effective range at 660m, under the AC2 at 720m, and just over the Ultra AC5s at 600m), so it makes for a nice sniper weapon. Its drawback is its explosive nature, and if you miss, you miss.

Ultra AC5s are great for brawling. It has higher DPS than Gauss (4.55 DPS versus 3.75 DPS of the Gauss), which is great if you prefer direct engagements, and even better when you're brawling in a fight and another friendly mech is tanking (I have PLENTY of experience of shredding enemy mechs to pieces doing just this). Also, if you get a hang of the firing mechanics you can fire it without jamming ever being a problem and still fire way more than an AC5. Yeah, it can jam in the hands of a novice, but if you dedicate the time to learn the weapon, it will pay off. Give unto the Ultra AC5, and it will give for you.

Basically, this debate has come down to using an assault rifle that tends to jam versus a volatile sniper rifle. To say that one is "better" is completely subjective.

That being said, I prefer the UAC5 on brawlers, and Gauss on snipers. Pick whatever fits your playstyle.

[Tarriss Halcyon]

Gauss. If you want to snipe, you don't use an assault rifle. If you want to brawl, you don't use a gun that jams constantly.

My best mech so far has been a Dragon mounting just a Gauss Rifle and an ER Large Laser. Total kills before finishing Elite tier: 46. Three Jenner, three Raven, two Centurion, two Cicada, four Hunchbacks, eight Cataphracts, seven Catapult, five Dragon, four Atlas, three Awesome, four Stalker. Granted, this was over the time when the Gauss explosions actually started occurred, but even with that I was losing an arm, taking internal damage on my side torso from the blast, and yet still had the ER Large to stay in the fight, mounted in the other side torso. UACs.... eh, I never really thought much of them.

And as for the AC20, well, I survived a hit at point blanc in a Commando before. Stripped half my mech off, so I lost an arm and a side torso in a single shot, but aside for that, I was still alive. And you know that I was, still alive. Besides, it's range is the same as a Medium laser. Kinda lacking for the gun with big boom, especially after it confused me while sniping - shell resembling Gauss hit me at 800m and did a total of diddly squat.

[Kassatsu]

Personally I like the AC20. People know when they get hit by one, and I love making light mechs explode with one in my hunchback.

Gauss rifle is great for long-range sniping, while the UAC5 is more for short-mid-range where you can consistently land hits on the same target location. I believe that even without double-tapping, a single UAC5 has higher DPS than a gauss rifle, so that's why I say UAC5 is better at shorter ranges, while gauss rifle is better for sniping, since with a gauss rifle you don't need to land three hits in a single area to deal 15 damage to it.

The title of true king of ballistics goes to machine gun however, so I voted 'other'.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

UAC5 =/= Gauss =/= AC20

All different, all good.

[Zordicron]

AC20. But you need to be a good shot, and know how to pilot yourself into position. Not required for the Uac5 or gauss so much.

I prefer Uac5 over gauss though. Single one does good dmg output for the tonnage. DPS is one thing, being able to apply the dmg quickly so as to minimize exposure is much more important.
I tired a 4x AC2 on my phract, I tried 2x AC2, 2xAC5, and I went back to 2xUAC5. I run 2xAC10 sometimes for fun, but AC10 needs a little buff IMO.

basically, AC2 should only need 5 tons instead of 6, AC5 should do 1 more point of dmg, and maybe reduce cooldown by .25 sec, and AC10 should do 3 points more dmg for the tonnage, OR, reduce cooldown.

Really, AC10 just weighs too much compared to what you can do with Uac5 or AC20.

[Fenris Krinkovich]

Royalewithcheese, on 02 March 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

UAC5 is dead shooty wiv loads uv dakka. Da only fing more killy dan two UAC5 is two UAC5 an anuvva UAC5.

So beautiful. So, so beautiful.

[Monky]

It depends on what number you have and how you plan to use it. If you plan to brawl, an AC20 or two are great. If you only have one ballistic, and tons of weight to spare, a Gauss rifle is ideal. If you have a mass of ballistic hardpoints and can fit it, 4x AC2/AC5 are pretty sweet. About the only ballistics I don't like are the AC10/LB10-X and machinegun

[Spinning Burr]

Thanks for voting everybody. The community votes that gauss is still king despite the nerfs to bring it into balance with other ballistics. It was king before, and it is king still. Basically, more gauss is more better. Always. Otherwise, the community decision is that the UAC5 is NOT a contender for top ballistic, but just one flavor of a host of dakka vs boom options that also include AC10 and AC20 to suit your taste and play style. If you can afford it, buy gauss rifle(s). If you can't, then buy the other stuff to suit your taste.

[Asmosis]

uac5 if you can hold a target, gauss if you cant. ac20 if you like to brawl.

uac5 > ac2 or ac 5 though for its purpose, only jams if your spamming.

[Ialti]

Roughneck45, on 02 March 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

Gauss is better though just because it is easier to use.

Death first!

[Mr 144]

Spinning Burr, on 02 March 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

I'm testing two ballistic builds on Muromets and haven't decided which makes more sense. Both give dakka and alpha as combos.

The first is 3 UAC5's with one ERPPC and 5 tons ammo. The second is 2 UAC5's with one gauss rifle and 6 tons ammo. They are surprisingly close. 25 points alpha with great sniper range, and UAC5 dakka approved. 33 vs 34 tons total. Can run on 280-300 XL engines trading maneuverability for leg armor and/or more ammo to suit individual taste.

Try the 2xUAC w/ 5 tons ammo, and 2xPPC, Endo, 280XL, and 13DHS...my personal favorite after trying just about every variation

Prosperity Park, on 02 March 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

Quad UltraAC/5 JagerMechs will be coming... Soon™

Don't forget that weapons combo possibility. They say the Ilya is unfair because it can hold 3 UAC/5's... ha!

You gotta stop...just stop...promoting a build that cannot possibly be viable. Anyone who's done the math on it knows it just ain't gonna work in game.

Mr 144

[p00k]

Spinning Burr, on 03 March 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

the UAC5 is NOT a contender for top ballistic

it's gotten 29% of the vote, out of 3 choices. seems like a pretty respectable contender to me

[Antony Weiner]

Boated PPCs are superior to all ballistic weapons

[Ralgas]

Mr 144, on 03 March 2013 - 09:02 PM, said:

You gotta stop...just stop...promoting a build that cannot possibly be viable. Anyone who's done the math on it knows it just ain't gonna work in game.

Mr 144

Got a link? i'd be interested in reading up on the math theory......

[aniviron]

AC20. Would be a shame for my poor hunchie to go all boom boom in the middle of combat because someone blew off the side. Plus, five more damage a shot!

[p00k]

Ralgas, on 03 March 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

Got a link? i'd be interested in reading up on the math theory......

no link, but it's not hard to do the math

jagermech is 65 tons.

since its ballistics are arm mounts, you'll want to keep it fairly well armored, stripping some off the legs is about all you can do. max everywhere, legs down to 41 out of a max 60, will put you at 12tons armor.

internals, you'll have room for endo but not ferro too. endo will put your structure at 3.5 tons

4x uac5's at 9tons each = 36 tons.

your engine, if you go with an xl 255 (to have the required 10 all in-engine), is 12.5 tons

that's 64 tons, leaving 1 ton ammo for 4 uac5's. doesn't work too hot.

say you go with the lightest engine possible, the xl 145 at 2.5 tons (all the others smaller are also 2.5). you're at 54 tons, but you have to add in 5 more heatsinks to get to the required 10. that means 59 tons, leaving 6 tons for ammo. 6 tons is about enough ammo for 2 uac5's, not 4. and 10 SHS is actually sort of hot, but you can't use DHS because you don't have the crits for endo AND 5 DHS outside the engine

say you strip armor down to 10 tons. and say you're fine with running hot in bursts, so you take the xl 145 with 5 more SHS elsewhere, for 7.5 tons between engine and HS. again 3.5 for structure with endo. ok, now you have 8 tons for ammo. not really enough for a full battle, but you'll do some damage while you do. only, you're running hot, with speed tweak you're going 39kph, and you're fairly lightly armored. a jump sniper will murder you. you're too slow to move from cover to cover to hide from lrms. you turn so slow a stalker seems nimble by comparison.

4x uac5 on a 65 ton mech is not viable, no more than 3x gauss on the ilya

----

now, the jager should be able to run dual ac20, and still run an xl engine unlike the k2, letting it be respectably fast and pack some support weaponry as well. thats really the one thing it can do that the phract 4x can't (from a ballistic standpoint. obviously the two have non-ballistic hardpoints)

it can also run double gauss better since its arms should be mounted fairly high, rather than drooping low like the 4x's (think what the stalker can do with its high mount ppcs)

Edited by p00k, 03 March 2013 - 11:41 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

The UAC/5 can achieve a considerably higher damage output than the Gauss. But there are some caveats: Due to the high rate of fire, it's not well suited for sniping, as that requires more time for aiming.

I still vote for the UAC/5, but the Gauss and UAC/5 have different roles, I think, and if you're looking to play a sniper build, you'll be better off witht he Gauss Rifle. If you want to fight mid and low range combats, the UAC/5 will be superior.