46 replies to this topic

[Octave]

I'm curious, why is the D-DC regarded as the standard, other than the D?

I'm asking this because back when I first starting playing this, when open beta opened up, I saved up cbills and bought the D. Reasons I'll explain in a moment, but I bought the D, and then my friends stopped playing so I stopped as well. I'm trying to get back into it and I was looking up serious builds, and all the builds say that D-DC is superior, but no one really states why. I really don't want to think I've wasted all that time getting my D, but I just cannot grasp why the D-DC WOULD be better.

The only noticeable difference that I can see is 2 less energy, 1 more missile, and command console? Sure, 4 energy slots can be grounds for overheating, but just manage well and its fine. My current build for my D is as follows:

2 Med Las
2 Lg Las
2 Srm 4
2 U AC/5

Double heat sinks
C.A.S.E.
325 Engine
Endo

Most builds I see for the D-DC contain

2 Lg Las
3 Srm4/6
2 U AC/5 / Gauss etc...
Double Heat sinks
325 Engine
Endo
ECM


Is ECM really that big of a deal? I never have an issue seeing someone on the field who has ECM (heat vision is beautiful) and also, you really think you can hide an atlas. Really. Yeah, ok buddy. I don't see your giant *** nugget from across the map.

I don't understand. Is 1 more srm really that much better than 2 more energy? And I've seen a few builds where they don't even use the missile slots. Why'd you get the DC then? You aren't using it's seemingly only strength over a D. I can put almost every build I've seen on a DC on my D. The only difference? I get one less missile slot. Yeah ok. I just balance that out with a case or ams and some ammo.

Please explain to me why the DC is considered to be superior. I hope it isn't as everyone makes it out to be, because I really don't want to feel like I wasted all those cbills.

Edited by Octave, 02 March 2013 - 04:32 PM.

[Helsbane]

If ECM weren't a factor, you'd see more of the D model on the field simply due to loadout preferences among the pilots. Unfortunately, since no other Atlas, or assault for that matter, can utilize ECM, the DDC is the model most people pilot unless they're simply grinding through the other models. It's not that the D model is less capable because of loadout configs, it's because it can't carry the horribly implemented ECM.

[Thoummim]

Octave, on 02 March 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

I don't understand. Is 1 more srm really that much better than 2 more energy?

Yes.
+
ECM makes lrm locking slower if they have tag and cant lock at all if they dont have one, lets not forget that your armor is stealth unless they are under 200m of you.

Edited by Thoummim, 02 March 2013 - 04:38 PM.

[Wriath]

You can lock an untagged target with lrm's who has ecm within a certain range around 300 meters, not sure of the exact numbers, but it's not omnipowerful.

[Octave]

Thoummim, on 02 March 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

Yes.
+
ECM makes lrm locking slower if they have tag and cant lock at all if they dont have one, lets not forget that your armor is stealth unless they are under 200m of you.

Ok. How is 1 srm better? Limited ammo, very very short range, and much less precise than say, 2 med lasers would be. There is the argument of heat, sure, but that's a management issue.

[Thoummim]

Octave, on 02 March 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

Ok. How is 1 srm better? Limited ammo, very very short range, and much less precise than say, 2 med lasers would be. There is the argument of heat, sure, but that's a management issue.

The laser do less damage, do a lot of heat and in an atlas it goes up very quick, your laser will be dead weight in no time. Now lets not forget that in an atlas torso twist is vital and you prefer doing a lot of damage instantely rather than over time.

Edited by Thoummim, 02 March 2013 - 04:58 PM.

[ICEFANG13]

No ECM, but I also prefer the D over the DC

[p00k]

short of the K being clearly inferior, most other atlases are pretty comparable.

the rs has the best energy, the worst ballistic, and second worst missile (2 launchers, fewer tubes)

the d has second best energy, tied for best ballistic, and second best missile (2 launchers, more tubes)

the ddc has the worst energy, tied for best ballistic, and best missile

so most atlas pilots can pretty much hop from one mech to another, swapping out ballistic/missile/energy as needed for otherwise fairly similar builds. however, only the ddc can run ecm. prior to ecm, the d was my favorite, but i've played a lot more ddc lately, and with this latest patch trying to turn everyone into snipers, the rs is getting more playtime too

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

ECM denies your opponent information about you, your allies and his allies, so even if you get in close you are blind to your surroundings. That's a very powerful ability. Plus (any most importantly) it gives u great lrm protection and gives great synergy to uber builds like the streakboat and splatcat.

[Konril]

A medium laser weighs 1 ton, generates 4 heat when fired, fires every 4 seconds (1 duration + 3 cooldown), and delivers 5 damage per shot.
A SRM 6 system weighs 3 tons plus ammo, generates 4 heat when fired, fires every 4 seconds, and can hit for up to 15 points of damage.

Even without the ECM issue, this is a big deal. Sure the SRM 6 and ammo weighs more than a medium laser. But it has 3 times the DPS and Alpha performance of one without being any harder on the heat scale. I'll take an SRM over any three medium lasers any chance I get. However I have also learned to love the Streak SRM 2 system on the DC. SRMs have a lot of damage potential, but no accuracy at medium range.

[Corvus Antaka]

Konril, on 02 March 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

A medium laser weighs 1 ton, generates 4 heat when fired, fires every 4 seconds (1 duration + 3 cooldown), and delivers 5 damage per shot.
A SRM 6 system weighs 3 tons plus ammo, generates 4 heat when fired, fires every 4 seconds, and can hit for up to 15 points of damage.

Even without the ECM issue, this is a big deal. Sure the SRM 6 and ammo weighs more than a medium laser. But it has 3 times the DPS and Alpha performance of one without being any harder on the heat scale. I'll take an SRM over any three medium lasers any chance I get. However I have also learned to love the Streak SRM 2 system on the DC. SRMs have a lot of damage potential, but no accuracy at medium range.

when looking at it this way and considering the splatcat it makes one reconsider that maybe the SRM does need to make more heat, like 5-6 not 4.

[Spheroid]

I just got a D with the MC trial sale and I must say it generates quite a bit more heat for not a lot of usuable firepower.

I run artemis on the DDC which I feels gives me the edge vs. the D. Maybe when I get 2x basic buffs I will feel different.

[p00k]

Konril, on 02 March 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

A medium laser weighs 1 ton, generates 4 heat when fired, fires every 4 seconds (1 duration + 3 cooldown), and delivers 5 damage per shot.
A SRM 6 system weighs 3 tons plus ammo, generates 4 heat when fired, fires every 4 seconds, and can hit for up to 15 points of damage.

Even without the ECM issue, this is a big deal. Sure the SRM 6 and ammo weighs more than a medium laser. But it has 3 times the DPS and Alpha performance of one without being any harder on the heat scale. I'll take an SRM over any three medium lasers any chance I get. However I have also learned to love the Streak SRM 2 system on the DC. SRMs have a lot of damage potential, but no accuracy at medium range.

you forget, a medium laser retains its damage all the way out to 540m, and hits whichever component you want it to hit. at point blank yes the srm6 outdamages the med las in terms of raw firepower, but over a distance the medium laser remains much more potent. personally for me rather than sticking 2 mlas in the d's ct, i like to cram a llas in there, and llas in the arms, for a pretty potent direct fire shot.

[Thoummim]

p00k, on 02 March 2013 - 11:11 PM, said:

you forget, a medium laser retains its damage all the way out to 540m, and hits whichever component you want it to hit. at point blank yes the srm6 outdamages the med las in terms of raw firepower, but over a distance the medium laser remains much more potent. personally for me rather than sticking 2 mlas in the d's ct, i like to cram a llas in there, and llas in the arms, for a pretty potent direct fire shot.

At 405m a ml do 2.5dmg, and any pilot with a brain will have the reflex of torso twisting or evading the laser resulting spreading the already very weak damage or just loose it.
I lost 5dmg at worst you lost 8heat, 8heat you could have use for an ac20shot, which would have done 15dmg.

I think a large laser could be worth but the fact its torso mounted mean I will have an hard time shooting those annoying light when a single dca like srm6 will make them break out in a cold sweat.

I repeat I take a side torso mounted missile slot over 2 center torso mounted energy slot anytime.

[Lege]

ECM is currently overpowered and thus in demand. The "stealth" it provides is invaluable to protecting you and your team mates from LRM and streak fire and long range lock ons. The D-DC is the only assault mech that is currently ECM capable. Personally I prefer the -RS with 4 large lasers, but the D-DC is good too with 3 missile hard points. SRMs are currently much better than lasers.
4 heat to 15 damage vs 4 heat to 5 damage or 5 heat to 6 damage. For the heat missiles are far superior and they have a lot more punch from a dps viewpoint too.
We see people playing the strongest mechs and those generally include mechs with as many missile hardpoints as possible, like the "splat" cat with 6 missile hardpoints and the stalkers with 4-5 missile hardpoints.
Streak missiles don't miss and while they don't have a lot of punch, hitting light mechs consistently is valuable.

[kilgor]

I like the D and I use it quite a bit. But, it's not one of the cookie cutter builds, so probably not very popular, but it's weapons loadout is diverse, so it is decent for every map.

STD 300 Engine
2 x Large Laser
1 x AC/10
3 tons AC/10 ammo
1 x LRM-15
2 tons LRM ammo
1 x SRM-6
3 tons SRM ammo
1 x C.A.S.E.
17 Double Heat Sinks

Also, even though the D can mount 4 energy weapons, tossing in 2 medium lasers or another large laser will push your heat threshold too high and you will shutdown sooner. Part of the way I beat other Atlases is because in our exchanges, I go all out, so they do as well and they usually group fire or alpha so they shut down before me. This allows me to deal extra damage and possibly destroy them in the time it takes for them to come back online.

[Jez]

As a brawler, the D is superior over the DDC. Too many people undervalue the 2 med energy slots in the center torso and don't recognize the increased survivability in the event of a destroyed torso.

While an SRM 6 can put down 15 pts of damage, what it can't do is provide concentrated damage onto a singular spot which is invaluable against a hostile mech that has its internals exposed.

Edited by Jez, 03 March 2013 - 12:30 AM.

[Garfuncle]

Because ECM on an Assault practically gives you invulnerability to indirect LRMs, radar cloak, and enemy radar jamming all for the low low low low low price of 1.5 tons which is basically adding a feather on your Atlas. Why PGI EVER thought ECM on Atlas was anything but pants-on-head crazy I will never understand.

Edited by Garfuncle, 03 March 2013 - 12:29 AM.

[Von Claussen]

Thoummim, on 02 March 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

At 405m a ml do 2.5dmg, and any pilot with a brain will have the reflex of torso twisting or evading the laser resulting spreading the already very weak damage or just loose it.
I lost 5dmg at worst you lost 8heat, 8heat you could have use for an ac20shot, which would have done 15dmg.

I think a large laser could be worth but the fact its torso mounted mean I will have an hard time shooting those annoying light when a single dca like srm6 will make them break out in a cold sweat.

I repeat I take a side torso mounted missile slot over 2 center torso mounted energy slot anytime.

This. You want weighted damage with an Atlas. The key to surviving in assaults is to torso-twist. Laser weapons make this difficult.

[Void Angel]

Because ECM. Everything else is just secondary explanations. Certainly, ECM is not omnipotent - but it's still very effective. It's not just missiles, though that's a big part. It's also the way ECM stops people from being able to obtain target information on shielded 'mechs, thus creating difficulties in focus firing shielded BattleMechs, and in targeting the weakest points on those 'mechs.