102 replies to this topic

[MoonUnitBeta]

ChrisOrange, on 03 March 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

I just think some people in the thread were getting the wrong idea and I wanted to squash that.

Current range on streaks is 270 right? If it goes something like 50-100m dumbfire and THEN starts tracking then we have a problem. If it goes for just a few FRAMES of dumbfire where it "looks better," then sure let's have it.

Oh I see haha, Yeah 270 isn't much, but it is pretty far for streaks. It feels shorter with SRM's though since they spread out the further they get, and there's also the prime range to keep the target where they all converge (somewhere around 170 I think?). So I actually see that as hindrance that the streaks aren't bound by. There's no movement or range limitation outside of the 270m. They're full force whether at 0m or 270m. They'll always hit. SRM 6's meet at a certain point, but their 270m range is almost an illusion because of their spread.
So to see some kind of limitation put on the streaks, like as you said, a few frames, or as someone mentioned a 10-30m activation on the streaks would help keep that contrast between streaks and SRMs.

SRM's appear be something you would want to keep if you are getting 200m and closer to the target
Streaks would end up being something you would like to keep away from (like the SRMs).
It would be interesting that the 30m (for example) activation bill for streaks was passed, what that would do to lights who are seemingly fearless at ranges closer than that, and what it would do to assaults who keep streaks on to fend off lights. Would the lights stay away? Would streaks become a vulnerability if assaults carried them?
I think even with a minimum range activation for streaks, assaults would still carry them. I'd still carry them, because of the min range, I would suspect that lights wouldn't be comfortable getting close enough not to be guaranteed the hit. And if lights aren't getting close enough to take the risk, then that means they're far enough for streaks on assaults to hit them.

[Training Instructor]

Advanced Target Decay and 360 degree targeting modules are what made this happen.

Those modules were supposed to help LRM boats, but instead they're far better utilized by the Raven 3L and Commando 2D.

[Lyrik]

I wish PGI would just remove Streaks. They were a stupid idea from the beginning.
I mean in TT streaks are just helping with ammunation. Here, they are the no skills weapons with insane fly paths. (funny fact: they feel more advanced and sci-fi than any other weapon in this game :-P )

If possible change SSRM to that:
Allow dumbfire.
When fired while having a lockon you just use half/third of the ammunation. And the rockets have only a very small homing ability.

[SleepTrgt]

I think, best way to balance the streaks is that you need to keep your aim on the target box and keep it locked on(same as when you lock on,but then instead need to keep the aim on target), so that a light mech can evade anothers lights aim, but for heavyer mechs hits are easier but does'nt hit as hard because of the armor.

[BigJim]

MoonUnitBeta, on 02 March 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

resting happen though and as he was tap dancing away, the remaining streaks were coming out of his launchers sideways.
Like. Literally. Side ways. The ones in his left arm were clipping through his mech and hit my corpse.

I find this rather... absurd. lol

Not to sound glib or anything dude but this is very, very old news.

Streaks have been mental for ages now, and this is one of the several problems with them.


If you cast your mind back to closed Beta there was a given turning-radius for Streaks, and they did only fire out of the tubes in the direction of travel (both reasons are why Jenner-D pilots would sometimes "lead" their shot with streaks when fighting a Light who was moving perpendicular to them - Leading the shot made the streak appear in-front of the enemy and thus ensured that it's turning-circle allowed it to score a hit.


I'll keep on saying as long as there's a playerbase to say it to - the "fixing" of Streaks just as Closed beta ended was the most screwed-up breaking of them that was possible - Everything people decry about Streaks, Ravens, Streakboat Catapults - All of it was entirely caused by PGI's carelessness, a totally self-caused problem that is still waiting to be fixed.

[Asmosis]

Monky, on 02 March 2013 - 08:36 PM, said:

I'm starting to think 'streaks are garaunteed to hit' is something from tabletop that needs to go the way of the dinosaur. replace it with 'streaks are highly likely to hit' and you're good.

ssrms were deemed too weak when they could (and often did) miss light mechs. been there, done that in closed beta.

[Gaan Cathal]

Asmosis, on 03 March 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

ssrms were deemed too weak when they could (and often did) miss light mechs. been there, done that in closed beta.

This was nothing to do with them being SSRM2s, it was them being SSRM2s. No-one uses SRM2s either. Under current mechanics SSRM4/6 will be grade A tardated.

[Mavairo]

Since people think streaks are ''ridiculous''.

[F lan Ker]

S!

Using AIM-9X trials as reference is not that good as those situations are heavily setup for testing purposes and no way reflect actual combat. Sure the 9X has phenomenal performance compared to the older 9M, but still. And the more missile has to maneuver the faster it loses it's energy reducing the effective range drastically. The rocket motor does not burn for long, a few seconds only.

Edited by F lan Ker, 03 March 2013 - 07:53 AM.

[Mavairo]

The streak only has a 270 meter range.

I'm sure that in the 31st century a guided weapon with that short of a range could be quite capable of some eerie maneuvers.

The most current sidewinder by the way, can completely flip around as soon as it's fired without engaging the engine.

Also that ''short range'' you're talking about is still five miles

Edited by Mavairo, 03 March 2013 - 08:18 AM.

[Doc Holliday]

ChrisOrange, on 03 March 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

I just think some people in the thread were getting the wrong idea and I wanted to squash that.

Current range on streaks is 270 right? If it goes something like 50-100m dumbfire and THEN starts tracking then we have a problem. If it goes for just a few FRAMES of dumbfire where it "looks better," then sure let's have it.

You're leaving out the other part of the fix, which is that the turning radius of streaks would also be nerfed. If this were fully implemented you couldn't shoot streaks around a corner like that because they couldn't turn that sharply. They'd fly off and do nothing if you tried to shoot them at someone who is around the corner of a building.

Edited by Doc Holliday, 03 March 2013 - 08:20 AM.

[Thuzel]

Gaan Cathal, on 03 March 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

This was nothing to do with them being SSRM2s, it was them being SSRM2s. No-one uses SRM2s either. Under current mechanics SSRM4/6 will be grade A tardated.

Nailed it.

I've never heard anyone use a srm2 and then complain that it's weak, because they're supposed to be weak. Somehow though, when you add that extra s in front of the name, people get unrealistic expectations.

Edited by Thuzel, 03 March 2013 - 08:24 AM.

[CancR]

Thuzel, on 03 March 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

Nailed it.

I've never heard anyone use a srm2 and then complain that it's weak, because they're supposed to be weak. Somehow though, when you add that extra s in front of the name, people get unrealistic expectations.

A SSRM isn't nearly as weak as it should be considering if you have 3 streak missiles mounted, there would be very little chance for any missile to strike the same location.

This must be to hard to program since none of the games in the series do it this way.

If they would bring damage from 2.5 to 2, make you lose target each time you fire, and made the lock on time longer it would at least take a little more skill.

[Byk]

Yes. Giving streaks a minimum range before turning and a maximum radius at which the missiles themselves can turn is a great idea. Then just remove the automatic 100% chance to hit and streaks are completely, fairly, and logically balanced. Excellent solution.

[CancR]

Monky, on 02 March 2013 - 08:36 PM, said:

I'm starting to think 'streaks are garaunteed to hit' is something from tabletop that needs to go the way of the dinosaur. replace it with 'streaks are highly likely to hit' and you're good.

It really irks me when people post about BT rules with out knowing what the BT rules actually means.


Streaks DO NOT guaranteed hits, they instead only fire once a lock is gained. The difference being that streaks are just as hard to deal damage with as a medium laser but the risk/reward is that you are doing less damage and splitting up the damage, but if you don't hit its no heat and if you do its still less heat then a ML.\

Streaks now have no risk and all the reward.

[Darwins Dog]

I pretty much agree with OP. They shouldn't instantly take sharp turns right out of the tube. I would like to see something like a 120 degree arc in front of you that they can actually hit, otherwise they don't fire.

[Tarman]

Mavairo, on 03 March 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

The streak only has a 270 meter range.

I'm sure that in the 31st century a guided weapon with that short of a range could be quite capable of some eerie maneuvers.

The most current sidewinder by the way, can completely flip around as soon as it's fired without engaging the engine.

Also that ''short range'' you're talking about is still five miles

Oboy, another "well it happens in current IRL" post. People really need to understand that the passage of time alone is not any kind of guarantee that the stuff we have in the future is automatically still there but better than the stuff we have now. REAL history doesn't even work like that, let alone the "let's bomb ourselves almost to extinction with all the wars ever" future of Battletech. Though they do have you beat by using metric instead of caveman measurements.

And really, do you want a missile that's even better by orders of magnitude than what we have now? Try to keep your balancing ideas within the parameters set by the ingame world, not the outgame world. Almost every modern weapon in existence would wipe the floor with Battlemechs. Earth-current could totally hold its own against even quite a large invasion of mechs. It is not a place we can go to get balance for this game.

[GRIMM11]

I totally agree with the OP. It could go a long way for giving a non streak mech a fighting chance with a streaked mech.

[buttmonkey]

i think i need to see some more diagrams, not to be convinced but just for a laugh

[redlance]

i just wish they had a bigger spread and that they could miss.