132 replies to this topic

[Hastega]

Lock base caps for 5 minutes. Was that so hard?

[Brilig]

I'd prefer a mechanic that made a base uncap back to neutral unless there was a mech standing on it. Have it so you can't win by cap unless bot bases are fully captured. That could ensure that people will have to fight each other at some point.

[Hastega]

Brilig, on 26 February 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

I'd prefer a mechanic that made a base uncap back to neutral unless there was a mech standing on it. Have it so you can't win by cap unless bot bases are fully captured. That could ensure that people will have to fight each other at some point.

Won't work, the point behind base capping and the time limit is to offer a means to expedite the game should some troll come along and decide to drag it out as much as possible. If you can't find that last ECM Raven who refuses to show himself, simply go to his base and capture it. If both teams refuse to come out of hiding, the timer acts as a final safeguard against games lasting longer than a Dota match. So basecapping needs to exist, but it shouldn't be possible to end the game in the first minute without a shot being fired by either team.

[Critical Fumble]

Better idea - increase the effectiveness and value of recon.

Because if they say, "no caps for 5 minutes." Those who want to sneak cap still would sneak cap, and wait. Then when you figure out that all eight of them are there and they've got a campfire, s'mores, and ghost stories going; your team would trickle back, getting picked apart by all of them while half or more of your firepower was still waddling back. Either that or you then camp their base and it becomes a draw - dragging out the non-fight into more than five minutes.

[Mystere]

I have something even better and does not require any changes by PGI:

Defend your base.

Edited by Mystere, 26 February 2013 - 11:28 PM.

[Merrik Starchaser]

Hastega, on 26 February 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

, but it shouldn't be possible to end the game in the first minute without a shot being fired by either team.

it should be possible actually, that only happens when one team does nothing to defend. its called tactics. I always cap if the enemy gets stupid and tied up and doesn't watch their backs as they should be. I love when people cry over it.

there should be AT LEAST 2 conditions to victory for every map and game type, we don't haave a TDM/DM gametype which would be the only exception I can think of.

[DegeneratePervert]

better idea would be to implement a TDM mode. Or allow friendly mechs to "regen" the base by standing on it if no enemies are on it.

[Hastega]

Critical Fumble, on 26 February 2013 - 11:26 PM, said:

Because if they say, "no caps for 5 minutes." Those who want to sneak cap still would sneak cap, and wait.

Difference is that even the slowest mech in the game can reach the other base in the first five minutes. If both teams deliberately go out of their way to avoid fighting each other, then it ends in a draw as deserved as opposed to which team has the most Light mechs with the fastest engines. When destroying even one enemy mech results in a more likely win for your team, the team is encouraged to seek out and destroy the enemy to avoid that draw prior to the five minute unlock. Essentially, both teams will no longer make a beeline straight for the enemy base because they know they need to find SOMEONE to kill first.

[ShadowDarter]

DEFEND YOUR BASE!!!!

its simple, easy and will improve your health...

[Hastega]

Mystere, on 26 February 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

Defend your base.

Merrik Starchaser, on 26 February 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

it should be possible actually, that only happens when one team does nothing to defend.

Missing a point here. The only time both teams completely miss each other is when they head towards the enemy base along opposite paths. Leaving 1 or 2 mechs behind to take on the 8 mech zerg coming your way isn't going to help "defend your base", and then it becomes 8 mechs capping vs 6 mechs doing the same.

[Merrik Starchaser]

Hastega, on 26 February 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

Missing a point here. The only time both teams completely miss each other is when they head towards the enemy base along opposite paths. Leaving 1 or 2 mechs behind to take on the 8 mech zerg coming your way isn't going to help "defend your base", and then it becomes 8 mechs capping vs 6 mechs doing the same.

that's what light scout is for, not to fight 8 mechs but to tell the rest of the team where they are, if you have a blob but no feelers ...

You are doing it wrong.

[Mystere]

Hastega, on 26 February 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

Missing a point here. The only time both teams completely miss each other is when they head towards the enemy base along opposite paths. Leaving 1 or 2 mechs behind to take on the 8 mech zerg coming your way isn't going to help "defend your base", and then it becomes 8 mechs capping vs 6 mechs doing the same.

Who said anything about leaving 2 behind while the rest try to go cap the enemy base?

, , and triple

[Hastega]

ShadowDarter, on 26 February 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

DEFEND YOUR BASE!!!!

its simple, easy and will improve your health...

Know what we do to base defenders? We kill them. Then take their base. While having superior numbers to what they still have alive on their team. It's simple, easy, and will improve your win ratio.

Merrik Starchaser, on 26 February 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

that's what light scout is for, not to fight 8 mechs but to tell the rest of the team where they are, if you have a blob but no feelers ...
You are doing it wrong.

Light scouts have missed the enemy team as well many times, and Lights don't always actually exist on a team in the first place. Again, this issue only crops up when both teams have completely missed each other and are now closer to the enemy base than they are to their own. As soon as the capping begins, it's a race to get all your mechs on the control zone.

[Brilig]

Hastega, on 26 February 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

Won't work, the point behind base capping and the time limit is to offer a means to expedite the game should some troll come along and decide to drag it out as much as possible. If you can't find that last ECM Raven who refuses to show himself, simply go to his base and capture it. If both teams refuse to come out of hiding, the timer acts as a final safeguard against games lasting longer than a Dota match. So basecapping needs to exist, but it shouldn't be possible to end the game in the first minute without a shot being fired by either team.

You have the reasoning behind the mechanic down, but I think you might be confused about my idea.

My idea doesn't make base capping impossible. It does keep entire teams from running past each other to go stand on the enemy base. The idea being you cant win unless you physically own both bases. So capping is still viable.

Where as your idea just means if both teams miss each other they have 5 minutes to stack mechs on the enemy base. Then they wait till the timer expires and see who has the most cap accelerator modules

[drinniol]

I only seem to get this problem on River City where teams go upper & lower. Once the assaults get over 50% the way to the base there's no point stopping to turn around so may as well commit to a cap and get into another match.

[Critical Fumble]

Hastega, on 26 February 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

Difference is that even the slowest mech in the game can reach the other base in the first five minutes. If both teams deliberately go out of their way to avoid fighting each other, then it ends in a draw as deserved as opposed to which team has the most Light mechs with the fastest engines. When destroying even one enemy mech results in a more likely win for your team, the team is encouraged to seek out and destroy the enemy to avoid that draw prior to the five minute unlock. Essentially, both teams will no longer make a beeline straight for the enemy base because they know they need to find SOMEONE to kill first.

Or use a 3L or [ECM Commando] as bait. Or have more cap accelerators than they do. Or simply being the team that's going for the cap against a team that wants to fight. If the issue is with capping itself delaying when you can cap delays, rather than fixes, the issue.

More recon viability, more situational awareness, better capping mechanics, that would help. But everyone divides into the "Your capping is bad and you should feel bad" and "Your tactics are bad and you should feel bad" camps and can't be bothered to discuss how it could be better.

[Alvor]

Perhaps just unlock base capture when either team has One Player left of coarse every game already has a timer.

What I hate is the suicidal xgamer style alpha dumping players.


To curb suicidal xgamer style alpha dumping players there needs to be a penalty for losing a mech, repairs, & reloads.

This is a problem with most FPS/Sims is that there usually is little consequence for reckless actions and tactics.

In the MechWarrior universe it was common for mechs to retreat from the mission if it was too damaged.

To summarize if using Canon BT/MW:
Enforce the Dispossessed status/penalty & repair/reload costs.

All this information was taken from http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page which is one of the best resources for Battletech information.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Dispossessed

Dispossessed describes the state of having lost or otherwise not having a BattleMech at one's disposal in the BattleTech universe. It is typically used to contrast against the status of an active MechWarrior (pilot). The word carries a strong stigma. In the feudal societies that had formed after the fall of the Star League, especially in the lostech-ridden final years of the Third Succession War at the beginning of the 31st century, a BattleMech virtually guaranteed its owner wealth and status. In many respects it was the equivalent to a medieval knighthood, and at the same time the actual arms and armor of the MechWarrior. Serving as a MechWarrior could result in a noble title, land grants and fiefs. Often, families or whole fiefs were dependant on the income of a single MechWarrior.
Conversely, losing the 'Mech in battle or to a technical breakdown meant a sudden and drastic fall in social status, causing great grief. Many Dispossessed join conventional military branches (especially infantry or armor units), hoping that one day they can acquire a BattleMech through salvage.
Although typically meant in a permanent sense, the term can also be used to describe a temporary separation of a MechWarrior from his 'Mech, for example because a superior Lord denies the right to pilot a 'Mech (as it happened to Minobu Tetsuhara) or because the 'Mech and its pilot are shipped separately (the reason why Kai Allard-Liao piloted a borrowed 'Mech on Twycross).
The term has also been used to describe aerospace pilots who had lost their fighters.

[Hastega]

Brilig, on 26 February 2013 - 11:42 PM, said:

The idea being you cant win unless you physically own both bases. So capping is still viable.

I suppose what I dislike then is the idea that it requires two mechs to be effective, as you can be capturing one while the last remaining enemy is capturing the other and constantly base swapping. It also gives lights an advantage because they can capture one base then outrun you to the other one. Finally, in the event you actually camp a base to defend, there is no incentive to engaging unless the player is confident he can take your mech, resulting in a 15 minute thumb twiddling session as both teams are too scared to make a move.

[LordDante]

how about recon ???
if they rush ...
flank or attack their rear
just DO SOMETHING !

this game ( in the recent state ) doesent allow fancy taktics
so taking away the "what might happen if moments"
spoils the fun !

[Kobold]

I agree that I am not a fan of the current assault mechanic. I'd rather see it be "king of the hill" or straight "attack/defend" (perhaps with multiple points that need to be defended, to give some strategic decisions).

That being said, you all know how the current mechanic works. If you don't want to get capped, then defend or scout.