221 replies to this topic

[Rebas Kradd]

DJO Maverick, on 04 March 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

Coolant Flush?

That is incredibly disappointing, and really shakes my faith in the team here. As others have quoted, that's a complete betrayal of the previous explicit, unequivocal statements that there would never be coolant flush, no way, no how.

It's difficult to see it as anything other than a cash grab at the expense of game balance. You're creating a scenario when any truly competitive player, playing competitive 8-mans, with any kind of heat-intensive build, MUST shell out for a steady supply of coolant flushes to remain competitive. Don't kid yourself; if you're running an energy boat, if you aren't packing a large coolant flush, you're at a disadvantage against the guy on the other team with the same loadout who has one and can drop an extra alpha on you without shutting down.

Not to mention the 6x PPC Stalker observations already hinted at; this could, indeed, conceivably allow for a double-tap without them overheating. Anyone that is a halfway decent shot could then drop 120 points of completely focused damage on a target in the span of three seconds without overheating or shutting down. You've just killed anything short of an Atlas from clean and are mobile to run back into cover to cool down, thanks to the wonders of contrived no-drawback coolant flushing.

I'd really ask the devs to reconsider this one; I know you're looking for a new revenue stream, but come up with a consumable with less far-reaching implications, and one that doesn't violate the trust with the member base for seemingly no good in-game reason.

I am forced to see the merit of this argument. No matter what the dissipation rates are, I now see coolant flushes as basically creating ultra-alpha-strikes.

[Deathlike]

I believe the coolant may be instant, but a delayed application over time would make more sense (like, if you overheat in the 6 PPC Stalker, getting you out of overheat heck would not be so easy). I don't think it would be allowed to be used MW4 style (press for as much coolant as you need) as it makes more sense to use it like a modern mechanic (cooling over time, like 5 seconds worth).

Personally, 35% is too high a flush. Something like 25% would make more sense (10 and 15 for the two module versions).

Yes.. I'm already suggesting a nerf before release. I think we're all doomed.

[Rebas Kradd]

Deathlike, on 04 March 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

Personally, 35% is too high a flush. Something like 25% would make more sense (10 and 15 for the two module versions).

Perhaps, but wouldn't it still create too many ultra-alphas and instant kills? Nerf it too much and there's no point.

I opposed the initial outburst mostly out of repulsion to all the self-important whiners, but I'm finding it harder and harder to see any benefit to coolant flushes.

[VoodooLou Kerensky]

How about introducing the Long Tom Mech Mortar I can place in a Light mech and use a Balistic Trajectory to act as a 'behind the lines' Artillery? Bet theres a few of ya out there shakin yur heads at the thought of Lou bringin out his KitFox/Uller stripped to the bone with a Long Tom and 1 Ton of Ammo droppin 8 rounds on unsuspecting mechs heads and causing a Fusion Core Breach

[Deathlike]

Rebas Kradd, on 04 March 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

Perhaps, but wouldn't it still create too many ultra-alphas and instant kills? Nerf it too much and there's no point.

I opposed the initial outburst mostly out of repulsion to all the self-important whiners, but I'm finding it harder and harder to see any benefit to coolant flushes.

It has a lot to do with the rate of cooling, which is only temporary. If it were instant, you would then create the "PPC crack" for the game.. which I doubt the majority would want. Most 6 PPC stalkers take a relative eternity to cool off despite having as many DHS as physically possible. The idea of coolant is to improve your rate of fire.. if the cooling was instant, the rate of fire increases dramatically. When the cooling is only accelerated for a short period, the rate of fire doesn't scale as quickly.

Edit: Even a nerf to 20% might work... 7.5 (like coolrun) + 12.5. But whatever I guess...

Edited by Deathlike, 04 March 2013 - 06:57 PM.

[Dogan]

I wouldn't mind lag shielding so much if Light mechs actually had to have skill to move around a battlefield.... Bring Back Collisions!

Dogan
Those who Dance with Giants best avoid getting caught underfoot.

[Comrade Waifu]

Well, it's about damn time you guys implemented the testing grounds. ^^

[Bladerider]

come on guys coolant wont be a game breaker, twice at most you can lower your heat during a fire fight an by 35 %. not that big a deal, I am disappointed on not staying true to coolant pods etc. but game breaker no way, id be more worried about the arty strikes....

[Delas Ting Usee]

Great News! Can't wait!

Um...about the coolant flush - shouldn't we wait until it's implemented and then make an intelligent dignosis about its use RATHER than to gues/speculate about how its broken etc. etc.
I mean, isn't that what 'Beta' is? Our input will change the way something is used or nerf?

Edited by Delas Ting Usee, 04 March 2013 - 07:43 PM.

[Onyx]

I really, really hate a couple things in this update. First, just to get it out of the way, Tourmaline Desert. I already hate alpine. Not because the map isn't pretty, not because I like brawling mechs and this map is a snipe/LRM fest, but because this map is too friggen large (nevermind biased in favor of the NE base getting the high ground, always). But then you decide to add a larger map? No. Just no. Do not want. Having to spend 5 minutes just walking to the battle is painful enough as is. Making the maps ridiculously light-biased and easy to cheese a cap victory as such? No. Just no.

And now onto the elephant in the room. Oh boy. Consumables. Let me preface that, I don't mind one-shot per match items being added to the game. This doesn't bother me. What does bother me is the blatant addition of pay to win here, nevermind coolant flush which apparently was stated as not coming to the game, in addition to adding a money sink. This is a trifecta of stupid right here.

First point, pay to win. It's blatantly stated. two are CB-purchased, one's MC-purchased. They drain "35%" heat total in 2 shots (CB) or one shot (MC). It's so hideously pay to win that the MC only takes 1 mod slot but CB takes 2 to get the same benefit that this is just complete idiocy. I don't even care that CB can equal MC, this is pay to win since modules give powerful advantages and this eats up an extra slot if you don't pony up.

Second point that I'm making, money sinks. One of the absolute best things about this game presently is that it doesn't have money sinks. I don't want consumable items that cost money per match. It's one of the things I absolutely detest about WoT. I don't want a one-hit wonder ability that gives you a spike advantage. These don't make the game better, it just makes it more frustrating since your income at the end of the game isn't net profit, but you're damned-near required to run these consumables because you're at a considerable disadvantage without them.

If you're going to make limited use items for MWO, make them permanent unlock, single purchase items that can only be used a limited amount of time. That's it. I don't want money sinks in this game, the fact that the game doesn't have them as of just right now is actually to the benefit of this game and improves overall enjoyment of it.

In summation, don't add money sinks, and don't add pay to win! Nevermind coolant flush that I'll let others talk about. Also, larger maps aren't more interesting, they're just more boring and tactically inflexible, stop it!

Edited by Onyx, 04 March 2013 - 07:50 PM.

[ExAstris]

No changes for ECM.

Sweet, two weeks of Sim City without even the slightest urge to get distracted.

Edited by ExAstris, 04 March 2013 - 08:07 PM.

[Sprouticus]

Bladerider, on 04 March 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

come on guys coolant wont be a game breaker, twice at most you can lower your heat during a fire fight an by 35 %. not that big a deal, I am disappointed on not staying true to coolant pods etc. but game breaker no way, id be more worried about the arty strikes....

Im not disagreeing with you on its effects, you may very well be right.

However, I do (and will) have a few issues

1) I hated coolant flush in MW4, and I will hate it in MWO. In ANY form. Even coolant pods annoy the **** out of me. They introduce some serious balance issues, favoring energy weapons heavily. And if you make them so they DONT skew towards energy weapons, they would be useless

2) Having to 'rearm' after every match would be ulta annoying.

3) MC vs C-Bills. This goes beyond coolant flush. Any consumables that gives even a perceived advantage to MC bought items will be considered P2W.


I have been a big supporter of PGI's efforts. I have almost always seen the long view of theri efforts. Until ECM I thought they made the right move 100% of the time. ECM is iffy, but in the end I can accept a difference in opinions. But this truly has shaken my faith in their long term goals.

Im not going to rant and rave. I simply will wait to see what they do. And until my faith is restored I won't purchase more MC. I dont mean that in a whining crybaby way, just a simple decision based upon my faith in the long term viability of the game. Ive purchased a new rig & spent $350 in MC so far. About $1100 in the last 9 months. (although my old rig was OLD, so take that with a grain of salt)

I have my fingers crossed that the violent and prompt negative reaction to the consumables model gets reviewed.

As for Coolant, it is annoying as ****, but like ECM I can live with it if they insist on such an implementation. Holding my nose the entire time.

[JEB8753]

Hamm3r, on 04 March 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

Much welcomed change! Though I anticipate a bunch of Jenner/Commando Ect. pilots crying foul now that they can reliably be hit.

dont forget the raven 3l pilots too

[Thorqemada]

Do Not Like Coolant Flush!

(Though i like most of the other stuff / look forward to see how its balanced)

[Vercinix]

Ok so I don’t post...ever. But this is one patch that just instantly stopped me from logging on the game and said "wha?!" What I’m looking at is coolant and the loads of people talking about it. Tons arguing over the idea of it, is it a benefit or not, MC vs. c-bill and so on. Im not here to argue if it should be in the game PGI made that idea already. My problem is balancing. So I read http://mwomercs.com/...10-consumables/ to make sure that I understood what the Devs were saying (gasp he did research!) and was stuck on the modules part. You can have the same thing in either case (ok good so far) and most likely it will be at fair cost (we hope, still good so far) but the c-bills will cost you two slots where the MC is only 1...Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.

People are arguing on the forums saying "but you can use it twice" (I know this, it’s in the staff post) but it always totals out to 35% they are equal in cooling plain and simple, The only argument that can be made in this case is that you went from hot enough to use one coolant (let’s say 99%) all the way to below 15% then all the way back to a point where you would need to use the 2^nd, otherwise you always had heat you could have flushed without waste and it would have been equal to the MC version. But if one takes 2 slots and the other takes only 1...that is an unfair advantage... I accept everything in MWO until now... you CANNOT tell me that in a fight where all variables are equal (mech, skill, location etc.) and you place this in the mix numbers will not possibly favor MC. C-bills will be using an extra module for the exact same coolant percent but a MC will have it and an “extra” module. This translates to you being able to Pay to have an advantage (I know it will probably be slight) even if it makes a player .01% more effective in a fair fight (50/50 becomes 49.99/50.01 which would you rather be?) that in all its essence is an unfair advantage (I will not say those three words everyone is thinking, I will not do it.)

With this said I was raised to never complain about something unless you had a proposal to fix it.

C-bills have 2 Coolants:
C-bill Coolant A: 17.5% cooling of TOTAL heat on your mech.
C-bill Coolant B: 35% cooling of TOTAL heat on your mech.

MC have 1 Coolant:
MC Coolant: 35% cooling of TOTAL heat on your mech.

1 and only 1 coolant may be placed into a mech, in a module slot.

This would replicate a near model that they have given us before on our non-hero mechs. MC or C-bills your choice, it only can save you time. Feel free to adjust the % how you will as long as the spirit of the idea is kept…equally. If you really want to argue 2 uses, allow 2 modules of the 17.5% coolant but you need to make it available to both C-bills and MC at that point (because we are trying to avoid an unfair advantage right?)

With this said, only it being implemented will really show us if our fears are or are not reality and until then I’ll trust PGI (if nothing else it’s still beta right? Right?!?)

My rant is done, and proposal is made, be kind and creative if you don't like something (like my post for example ).

Edit for font size (my bad)...and some typos

Edited by Vercinix, 04 March 2013 - 09:36 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

I'm extremely unhappy with this move to MC consumable pay items.

I will continue to support PGI with MC towards stuff I support (like 1 time paint), but these items will not be among them. I think this is a terrible move, especially in the current global economic climate.

imho this feels like a big time money grab and something that rewards the rich vs the poor. I will never buy a hero mech because it is MC only, and I feel the same about these new ideas on consumables.

[FromHell2k]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 04 March 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

I'm extremely unhappy with this move to MC consumable pay items.

I will continue to support PGI with MC towards stuff I support (like 1 time paint), but these items will not be among them. I think this is a terrible move, especially in the current global economic climate.

imho this feels like a big time money grab and something that rewards the rich vs the poor. I will never buy a hero mech because it is MC only, and I feel the same about these new ideas on consumables.

They can be thankful for have ppl. like you. For my part, quitting is the only way to avoid a certain coronary thrombosis.. And yeah, I've spent a pretty amount of cash and was willing to do so in future. Like I said, I was. Even if they drop this plan, I can't tell for sure if I ever would invest one more cent. My trust in PGI just went down the road.

[Elder Thorn]

InnerSphereNews, on 04 March 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

OP

Testing Grounds

HELL YEAH!

Consumables

Well.. the air strikes and stuff like that were kind of known for some time.
Cooland flush however was actively denied by PGI in the past, as far as i remember for balancing reasons.
What comes to my mind is, we removed RnR and many said it was Pay2Win, what will the coolant flush be in their eyes? Pay2dominate?

Desert Map

Well... we shall see how all that works out, looking forward to it though.

Mech Lab UI
the screenshots look good for now, however i hoped for a total rework anytime soon, probably not gonna happen.
Give that social button some love and REMOVE it pretty please. I made a suggestion on this ages ago, the thread died though

Design a Trial

very nice, that's the way to go IMO. Community participation means a happy community, usually.

Performance
looking forward to it, hope it works, i am sure you guys put a lot of work into it, thanks for that.

[Eddrick]

I would prefer to use my own equiped Artillery Weapon. But, a modual to call an Artillery Strike is better then nothing.

JagerMech!

New Map!

Host State Rewind! Lagshield disappears!

Edited by Eddrick, 04 March 2013 - 10:56 PM.

[Vraxx]

I'll be honest rarely have I looked at a feature proposed for MWO and just said it will be pandered but the two consumable options I think are going to be the ones that tip it.

I can reasonably understand that there is a desire to find a sustainable revenue stream for MWO but given the types of advantages that these two consumable features bring to the game are going to turn a lot of players off. On one level it feels like the repair/re-arm way of controlling C-Bills which was dropped is now offset by a consumable refill for a marginal gain in combat.

I hope that player feedback once the consumables goes live provides better options and directions for PGI to look at.