30 replies to this topic

[Cebi]

What advantages does the Cicada have?

Max engine - Jenner goes 1.2 kph faster
Cicada can take more armour, but only 274 vs 238...
...and if you do that then the weight forces you to take one less heatsink so the Jenner is more heat efficient.
...and if you take the same armour as the Jenner to keep that heat efficiency the same then you end up with a mech that goes 1.2 kph slower and is bigger, thus an easier target, than the light.
The Jenner also has the option of adding JJs.

Cicada fans; what am I missing??!

[Shismar]

You missing nothing, the Jenner is better in all situations I have encountered. Especially since you get matched against mediums such as Cent or Hunchy that will eat a Cicada with ease. Jenners not so much, they are quicker. Before the ECM Raven, Jenners were the most obnoxious mechs around (and very popular too).

[Orzorn]

I never had a problem with overheating with a Cicada wiht 6 MLAS, but I'd imagine a Jenner K may very well have an issue, although I haven't quite played enough Jenners to know. I do know that Even 4 MLAS and 2 SRM 4 is pretty hot running.

Also, Shismar, the new ELO system gets rid of weight based matchmaking, so picking a Cicada won't guarantee another medium on the enemy team.

[Tuonela]

Essentially its potential maneuverability/speed vs potentially more armor/heat dissapation

[Cebi]

Orzorn, on 04 March 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

I never had a problem with overheating with a Cicada wiht 6 MLAS, but I'd imagine a Jenner K may very well have an issue, although I haven't quite played enough Jenners to know. I do know that Even 4 MLAS and 2 SRM 4 is pretty hot running.

Also, Shismar, the new ELO system gets rid of weight based matchmaking, so picking a Cicada won't guarantee another medium on the enemy team.

Comparing 6ML Jenner vs 6ML Cicada. With max armour the Cicada has 1 less heatsink, so is less heat efficient. Lower the armour to that of a Jenner and you gain the same heat efficiency, but you are now a bigger target with seemingly no advantages.

Tuonela, on 04 March 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

Essentially its potential maneuverability/speed vs potentially more armor/heat dissapation

Cicada has no extra heat dissipation, in fact it has less if you run that extra armour.

[Commander Kobold]

cicada has more staying power? and choosing a cicada deprives the enemy team of a potential craven

[Orzorn]

Cebi, on 04 March 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

Comparing 6ML Jenner vs 6ML Cicada. With max armour the Cicada has 1 less heatsink, so is less heat efficient. Lower the armour to that of a Jenner and you gain the same heat efficiency, but you are now a bigger target with seemingly no advantages.

Then its simply an issue of heat dissipation versus armor.

If you're good at controlling your heat, the armor is nice, although the Jenner has claim to jump jets.

Omni 13, on 04 March 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

cicada has more staying power? and choosing a cicada deprives the enemy team of a potential craven

Once again, the new ELO system doesn't work that way. It no longer matches by type.

[The Mech behind you]

I have mastered Jenners and just unlocked Master oin Cicadas. And the diffrerence between the both is the Cicada is bigger and can take more of a beating. The Jenner is smaller and has a better manoeuerability. And it's easier to run 6 ML on the Cicada regarding the heat

[operator0]

Cebi, on 04 March 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

Comparing 6ML Jenner vs 6ML Cicada. With max armour the Cicada has 1 less heatsink, so is less heat efficient. Lower the armour to that of a Jenner and you gain the same heat efficiency, but you are now a bigger target with seemingly no advantages.

The difference is that the Cicada has the option, of which the Jenner does not, of having more armor. Additionally, when you compare the CDA-2A against the JR7-F you'll notice that the Jenner has all of it's weapons in the arms. While this can be an advantage in in some cases, it can be argued that having all the weapons in an appendage that can only armor out to 24 is a liability. There's a significant armor difference between the two mechs,

Also, there's a crit space problem for the Jenner. The max heat sinks it can carry is 15, while the CDA-2A can carry 16 if you reduce engine size to XL325 (144 kph) and Armor down to 250 (arms don't carry any weapons). So, what you end up with is a mech that can take more punishment and have better heat efficiency at the cost of 8 kph less speed. If you throw JJs on the Jenner, then you decrease heat efficiency and/or armor.

Those five tons do make a difference.


CDA-2A: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cd2edf2566cb290

JR7-F: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9ca8899f52f5a86

Quote

Cicada has no extra heat dissipation, in fact it has less if you run that extra armour.

Cicada can have more heat dissipation and still carry more armor than the Jenner.

[Corwin Vickers]

You don't HAVE to take the largest engine possible. Larger engines are less efficient. Therefore larger mechs are less efficient if your goal is speed.

Take a smaller engine on the cicada making it go slower than the mechs lighter than it and all of a sudden you've got more tonnage to play with.

[Vite Ramen]

I'll take jumpjets, thanks.

[BladeSplint]

Is...Is this thread NOT complaining about consumables???

seriously though I've loved the jenner since MW2, but this hero cicada certainly has my interest. Missile hardpoints and an extra 5 tons could be interesting.

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

The Cicada is clearly better, being a much larger target you can more effectively block shots that might hurt a tree or damage a building.

[operator0]

Corwin Vickers, on 04 March 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

You don't HAVE to take the largest engine possible. Larger engines are less efficient. Therefore larger mechs are less efficient if your goal is speed.

Take a smaller engine on the cicada making it go slower than the mechs lighter than it and all of a sudden you've got more tonnage to play with.

On the CDA-2A it makes no sense to have less than an XL325. Why you ask? Crit slots and the in-engine heat sinks. If you drop below a XL 325, you lose the ability to mount a DBL heat sink because you only have 2 crit spots left. In order to add more heat sinks than 16, you have to use standard armor, which nerf's your speed quite a bit from the XL 325.

These same reasons are why you don't want to go under the max engine (XL 300) for a JR7-F.

[Symber]

Cicada has an ECM option. I also have a fun AC20 build and dual UAC5 build. Agree about durability but the Jenner has balances for that like the slightly smaller size, etc.

[Trauglodyte]

operator0, on 04 March 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

On the CDA-2A it makes no sense to have less than an XL325. Why you ask? Crit slots and the in-engine heat sinks. If you drop below a XL 325, you lose the ability to mount a DBL heat sink because you only have 2 crit spots left. In order to add more heat sinks than 16, you have to use standard armor, which nerf's your speed quite a bit from the XL 325.

These same reasons are why you don't want to go under the max engine (XL 300) for a JR7-F.

I would argue with this for a couple of reasons:

• buying engines outside of multiples of 25 is a bad idea because you're spending more cbills (may not be an issue) for not enough speed to worry with while spending more weight then you benefit from with the new engine
  
• heat sinks, beyond the initial 10, inside the engine provide you with no real benefit unless you're lacking for critical space
  
• dropping heat sinks into open criticals is also a nice way of padding your internal structure once your armor is gone

Basically, if you're going to argue a 300xl vs a 325xl, you're spending $408,333 cbills and 3.5 more tons for 11.1 kph or 3.06 m/s. That extra 3.5 tons is 2 double heat sinks and ECM, ECM+BAP+Sm Laser, 3 Md Lasers + 1 Sm Laser, etc. With Endo Steel and Ferro Fibrous, the Cicada weighs in a 9.5 tons which gives you 30.5 tons to utilize. Why cut that down to 27 tons when you don't need to?

[Traigus]

You can paint the Cicidia like the Starsky and Hutch car.... yes you can. Red, red and a white stripe.

Jenners... nope. No awesome Sttarsky and Hutch Action cruising River City at night for you!

When Collisions are back in, I can crash into Commandos so they roll over the hood of the Mech... in true Starsky and Hutch Chase style!

[Owlfeathers]

Can't fit ballistics on a Jenner, nor can you do the Noisy Cricket Cicada 5 ERPPC build. Other than that, they're pretty similar.

[operator0]

Trauglodyte, on 04 March 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

I would argue with this for a couple of reasons:

• buying engines outside of multiples of 25 is a bad idea because you're spending more cbills (may not be an issue) for not enough speed to worry with while spending more weight then you benefit from with the new engine

That was my point.

Quote

heat sinks, beyond the initial 10, inside the engine provide you with no real benefit unless you're lacking for critical space

I explained precisely the lack of crit space in the post you are directly quoting from. Did you not read my post? If you did read it, why are you arguing with me?

Quote

dropping heat sinks into open criticals is also a nice way of padding your internal structure once your armor is gone

Not enough crits.

Quote

Basically, if you're going to argue a 300xl vs a 325xl,

I'm not arguing in favor of a XL 300.

Quote

You gain very little in the way of any sort of mech performance with the 300 vs the 325.

Wait a minute, are you saying you prefer the 300 over the 325 or vice-verse?

Quote

And, that gain comes at a severe cost to speed.

Oh, you prefer the 325. Then we have no argument.

Quote

you're spending $408,333 cbills and 3.5 more tons for 11.1 kph or 3.06 m/s.

Ok, now I'm confused again. Is the speed advantage of the 325 better, or is the 3.5 tons and Cbills saved an advantage? Which one do you prefer again?

Quote

That extra 3.5 tons is 2 double heat sinks and ECM, ECM+BAP+Sm Laser, 3 Md Lasers + 1 Sm Laser, etc

Oh, you prefer the 300. We have an argument then.

Quote

With Endo Steel and Ferro Fibrous, the Cicada weighs in a 9.5 tons which gives you 30.5 tons to utilize. Why cut that down to 27 tons when you don't need to?

Wait....what?


What I'd like for you to do is re-write that post so I know where you stand. Also, it would be nice if you read my two posts in this thread bearing in mind that the OP and I were comparing the 6 laser version of the CDA against the 6 laser version of the JR7 (CDA-2A vs JR7-F).

[Volume]

Five tons, hitbox, ECM, etc.

Edited by Volume, 04 March 2013 - 09:14 PM.