497 replies to this topic

[Ryvucz]

I wish people would read everything prior to assuming that they are getting a stick up their ***.

[Woska]

This just isn't as dire as you're making it sound.

If you play a lot and have C-bills, you can use those. And you get two uses per match. While if you don't play much you can get the MC one which, while a larger single bonus, can only be used once per match.

Also, this is only going to be beneficial if you run a super hot build. In which case you're still going to have to pick and choose when to use it because you're likely going to be shutting down later in the match as well.

[Protection]

Woska, on 04 March 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

This just isn't as dire as you're making it sound.

If you play a lot and have C-bills, you can use those. And you get two uses per match. While if you don't play much you can get the MC one which, while a larger single bonus, can only be used once per match.

Also, this is only going to be beneficial if you run a super hot build. In which case you're still going to have to pick and choose when to use it because you're likely going to be shutting down later in the match as well.

Going to be pretty damn useful in, say, a competition. And if my team is composed of free players who only have tier 2 airstrikes, and the enemy team is a group of founders with tier 3 airstrikes - they have a huge advantage going into the competition.

[tecnorobo]

I can assure you, if things of this sort happen in this game, you won't get a nickel from me... or my playtime.

[QuantumButler]

Woska, on 04 March 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

This just isn't as dire as you're making it sound.

If you play a lot and have C-bills, you can use those. And you get two uses per match. While if you don't play much you can get the MC one which, while a larger single bonus, can only be used once per match.

Also, this is only going to be beneficial if you run a super hot build. In which case you're still going to have to pick and choose when to use it because you're likely going to be shutting down later in the match as well.

Yes it is.

And this is a slippery slope precedent, if we let this pass they will try to gouge our wallets harder with more blatant p2w examples in the future.

PGI [or maybe IGP] is testing the waters in a very boneheaded way, seeing if we will stand for this p2w nonsense, if we don't draw a firm line in the sand they will push push push until the game is dominated by 50 wallet warriors and everyone else has given up in disgust.

Edited by QuantumButler, 04 March 2013 - 11:16 PM.

[Budor]

Not gonna buy ANYTHING with real money again if they implement it that way. Simple.

[Airwind]

so america goes to war with china. then american soldiers decided to use their pocket money to buy some scopes for their rifles. China soldiers were enraged and started to flood the NATO forums and cries P2W P2W...

[Protection]

Terror Teddy, on 04 March 2013 - 09:59 PM, said:

I'll wait for patch and then playtest and then judge.

If you allow it to come into existence, then the tiered module/consumable system becomes established and entrenched and allowed to happen. it becomes the system. It becomes the norm.

The problem isn't limited to this one set of modules. The problem is the whole system being implemented. This system must be opposed and destroyed and destroyed now.

[Mackman]

Woska, on 04 March 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

This just isn't as dire as you're making it sound.

If you play a lot and have C-bills, you can use those. And you get two uses per match. While if you don't play much you can get the MC one which, while a larger single bonus, can only be used once per match.

Also, this is only going to be beneficial if you run a super hot build. In which case you're still going to have to pick and choose when to use it because you're likely going to be shutting down later in the match as well.

So, let's take a look at a hypothetical tournament match.

One team uses real money and fills up their avg. of 3 module slots per mech with Tier 3 Coolant, Tier 3 Airstrikes, and a different module of their choice.

The other team is dedicated to not using real money, and each of their mechs can choose to have good cooling and another module, good airstrikes and another module, or crappy cooling, crappy airstrikes, and another module./.. you get my point.

Looking at it, can you honestly say that you don't feel that the paying team would have a distinct, noticeable advantage over the non-paying team?

[Noobzorz]

Woska, on 04 March 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

This just isn't as dire as you're making it sound.

If you play a lot and have C-bills, you can use those. And you get two uses per match. While if you don't play much you can get the MC one which, while a larger single bonus, can only be used once per match.

Also, this is only going to be beneficial if you run a super hot build. In which case you're still going to have to pick and choose when to use it because you're likely going to be shutting down later in the match as well.

For starters, it's playing for power, which is an appalling no no in any competitive game. This will swing marginal cases. If I could start every StarCraft match with an additional 50 minerals, I wouldn't be able to beat a grandmaster player, and I wouldn't necessarily even be able to beat people of my own skill level much more often than I already do, but I guarantee you there would be a few other master leaguers who would be very confused about how I got lings into their mineral line so early every third match or so. I mean, we are literally making the game unfair when we do this.

Second, and possibly even more dire, this escalates. ALWAYS. And I've seen it happen so often now that I know it is an absolute truism of P2W, and that there are zero exceptions, and that it is foolhardy to imagine that this time is different. If we start down this road, by the end of the calendar year someone will solo three mechs with a hero Madcat Mk. II rocking five ER lasers that never stop firing while he is jump jetting over their heads to cover.

Edit: Typography

Edited by Noobzorz, 04 March 2013 - 11:19 PM.

[Protection]

Airwind, on 04 March 2013 - 11:16 PM, said:

so america goes to war with china. then american soldiers decided to use their pocket money to buy some scopes for their rifles. China soldiers were enraged and started to flood the NATO forums and cries P2W P2W...

Well, that's war. This is a game.

If the New England Patriots were allowed to play with Brass Knuckles and the Washington Redskins weren't allowed to use helmets unless they paid out of their own pocket, then that isn't proper competition. That isn't a game- it's a cash grab.

[armyof1]

Frankly I'm not surprised the devs are trying to pull this kind of stuff off, because you know what? It often succeeds because the majority will take too long to finally understand how this is wrong to keep the game competitive without being a question of who can afford to buy most MC. And when it's been around for a while people might not like it but still start to get used to it. So unless there is a big reaction against it now, these P2W items are here to stay. But I won't be though, I'll look for another game that still has competitive gameplay in focus, instead of pure moneygrabbing acts.

[QuantumButler]

Airwind, on 04 March 2013 - 11:16 PM, said:

so america goes to war with china. then american soldiers decided to use their pocket money to buy some scopes for their rifles. China soldiers were enraged and started to flood the NATO forums and cries P2W P2W...

Hahaha oh wow.

[Levon K]

Why is there so much whining going on here?

The C-Bill coolant flush has a distinct advantage of having 2 separate uses. The MC version has a distinct advantage of being able to drop more heat in a single shot. So I see two viable options each with their own advantages. How can this be P2W?

In fact, I would rather have the C-Bill version.

Not only that, I'm a fan of variety and choices. Making a boring straight linear equivalent consumables model is just plain boring. Now there are decisions to be made.

Also I would like for you to prove to me how you think a normal player can pay to win simply by equipping a Tier 3 coolant flush. You can scream P2W all you want, but I don't think it's gonna make people win. It's like saying a hero mech is P2W. There is always a better alternative chassis that you will win more matches in.

[Headlessnewt]

Play to Win is self-defeating.

Why whine about it? (I guess 'cause they gave us a forum what else will we do here but whine?)

The Devs are as aware that they are making something pay to win-ish as you are, if not even more so, since they did make the damn thing. They've probably considered the possible advantages it could bring and don't consider it an unbalancer. If it starts ruining their playerbase, they will probably change something.

If that doesn't work, the game dies. But why would you care? You'll already have quit because it started sucking when the P2W started.

Unless you're just whining and will keep playing anyway, in which case you're just very discordant sheep.

Enjoy the game for what it is, quit when it's not fun for you any more. Whining about something that hasn't even begun to happen yet is a waste of breath rivaled only by trying to convince people on forums not to whine (silly me).

Edited by Headlessnewt, 04 March 2013 - 11:21 PM.

[Revorn]

If PGI needs some money, they should bring up another Founders Programm, plenty of Players would easily pay 100 Bucks for a good futher devellopment. but PGI shouldnt go this P2W way. imho

[drinniol]

Headlessnewt, on 04 March 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

Play to Win is self-defeating.

Why whine about it? (I guess 'cause they gave us a forum what else will we do here but whine?)

The Devs are as aware that they are making something pay to win-ish as you are, if not even more so, since they did make the damn thing. They've probably considered the possible advantages it could bring and don't consider it an unbalancer. If it starts ruining their playerbase, they will probably change something.

If that doesn't work, the game dies. But why would you care? You'll already have quit because it started sucking when the P2W started.

Unless you're just whining and will keep playing anyway, in which case you're just very discordant sheep.

Enjoy the game for what it is, quit when it's not fun for you any more. Whining about something that hasn't even begun to happen yet is a waste of breath rivaled only by trying to convince people on forums not to whine (silly me).

I was gonna write the same damn thing.

[benth]

Headlessnewt, on 04 March 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

Play to Win is self-defeating.

Why whine about it? (I guess 'cause they gave us a forum what else will we do here but whine?)

The Devs are as aware that they are making something pay to win-ish as you are, if not even more so, since they did make the damn thing. They've probably considered the possible advantages it could bring and don't consider it an unbalancer. If it starts ruining their playerbase, they will probably change something.

If that doesn't work, the game dies. But why would you care? You'll already have quit because it started sucking when the P2W started.

Unless you're just whining and will keep playing anyway, in which case you're just very discordant sheep.

Enjoy the game for what it is, quit when it's not fun for you any more. Whining about something that hasn't even begun to happen yet is a waste of breath rivaled only by trying to convince people on forums not to whine (silly me).

Some of us want the game to succeed, even if it means saving PGI from itself.

[armyof1]

Headlessnewt, on 04 March 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

Play to Win is self-defeating.

Why whine about it? (I guess 'cause they gave us a forum what else will we do here but whine?)

The Devs are as aware that they are making something pay to win-ish as you are, if not even more so, since they did make the damn thing. They've probably considered the possible advantages it could bring and don't consider it an unbalancer. If it starts ruining their playerbase, they will probably change something.

If that doesn't work, the game dies. But why would you care? You'll already have quit because it started sucking when the P2W started.

Unless you're just whining and will keep playing anyway, in which case you're just very discordant sheep.

Enjoy the game for what it is, quit when it's not fun for you any more. Whining about something that hasn't even begun to happen yet is a waste of breath rivaled only by trying to convince people on forums not to whine (silly me).

Because "bitching" before changes happen is the only way to try and change the devs mind if enough people are against it. To say nothing and just let the game start to die isn't what most of us against the new P2W direction but otherwise really like MWO want to do.

[Noobzorz]

Headlessnewt, on 04 March 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

Play to Win is self-defeating.

Why whine about it? (I guess 'cause they gave us a forum what else will we do here but whine?)

The Devs are as aware that they are making something pay to win-ish as you are, if not even more so, since they did make the damn thing. They've probably considered the possible advantages it could bring and don't consider it an unbalancer. If it starts ruining their playerbase, they will probably change something.

If that doesn't work, the game dies. But why would you care? You'll already have quit because it started sucking when the P2W started.

Unless you're just whining and will keep playing anyway, in which case you're just very discordant sheep.

Enjoy the game for what it is, quit when it's not fun for you any more. Whining about something that hasn't even begun to happen yet is a waste of breath rivaled only by trying to convince people on forums not to whine (silly me).

Because a lot of us like Mech Warrior. This is our train. We will not get another opportunity like this for a very long, long, long time. If they **** it up, who will pick up this license after yet another failure (assuming it does fail) and go to make a new game right away? I am a stakeholder in this project, and I want it to do well.

This goes double and thensome for the folks who bought founders packages, especially since they were explicitly told there would not be consumables, and now there are.