41 replies to this topic

[LarkinOmega]

Since it's obvious that as long as MC is involved, heat shouldn't be an issue, let's talk about getting actual Double heatsinks implemented.

So far we've got True Doubles for mechs that only use 10 (Jenners, Cicada etc). With all the rest at 1.4 most mechs that need (read, bigger mechs that actually fit the larger weapons) missing out until they get to Elite Status for that specific mech.

This is a problem, since the oft quoted 3sec Jenner also benefits from this. With the recent announcement, we need to revisit the numbers. As I did not actually work them out, I'm not going to claim them, so please feel free to share your findings in light of the new numbers.

Note: This is not a Consumable thread, but the discussion needs to be reopened due to the announcement of the Consumables. If they get mentioned in this context to provide contrast, it still does not make it a Consumable thread. Please do not discuss the consumables past that specific context, so that the thread will retain some semblance of coherency.

[Stoicblitzer]

i think it's fine as is currently.

[EmCeeMendez]

This horse is dead. Large energy weapons were just patched and reduced in heat to address this problem. DHS at 1.4 issue resolved.

[Aethon]

Better not give the players real double heat sinks...then they might not spend as much money on the coolant pods that do not exist in the current timeline.

[Lootee]

Simple solution: make true 2.0 DHS consumables that cost MC.

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

With true DHS, I could easily run 3xERPPCs on an Awesome and still have space left over for a few mlas and AMS. If I want those things now, I have to drop heatsinks to get them.

Do you want me running around heat-stable on any map with 3xERPPCs and no compromises in my build? I'm just sayin'.

[WolvesX]

PanchoTortilla, on 04 March 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

Simple solution: make true 2.0 DHS consumables that cost MC.

Yup!

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

We do have "True" double heat sinks, you tard.

Well, unless you have more than 18 DHS, which I doubt. If you have the 15% cooling, your DHS are actually better than 2.0 sinks until you get the the 18 DHS threshold.

10 x(2.0x1.15) = 23 base heat per 10 just from the engine. Then add 1.61 hpt with every additional heat sink out side the engine.

10dhs = 23 hpt
11 dhs = 24.61 (11 x 2 = 22, just incase you're as dumb as I think you are)
12 dhs = 26.22 hpt (still 2 1/5 better hpt than 2.0 heat sinks...)

up until you get 18 dhs where...

18dhs = 35.88 (where oh noes, you are 0.12 heat per ten worse than 2.0 sinks. who cares)

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

mwhighlander, on 04 March 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

We do have "True" double heat sinks, you tard.

Well, unless you have more than 18 DHS, which I doubt. If you have the 15% cooling, your DHS are actually better than 2.0 sinks until you get the the 18 DHS threshold.

10 x(2.0x1.15) = 23 base heat per 10 just from the engine. Then add 1.61 hpt with every additional heat sink out side the engine.

10dhs = 23 hpt
11 dhs = 24.61 (11 x 2 = 22, just incase you're as dumb as I think you are)
12 dhs = 26.22 hpt (still 2 1/5 better hpt than 2.0 heat sinks...)

up until you get 18 dhs where...

18dhs = 35.88 (where oh noes, you are 0.12 heat per ten worse than 2.0 sinks. who cares)

I run 20-22 in energy-focused Awesomes. So I was right up above, it would just be me that got imba if we had "true" DHS

I wasn't in favor of the OP's idea before, but I am now. Warrax the Chaos Warrior is UP and needs a buff.

Edited by Warrax the Chaos Warrior, 04 March 2013 - 07:05 PM.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Warrax the Chaos Warrior, on 04 March 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

I run 20-22 in energy-focused Awesomes. So I was right up above, it would just be me that got imba if we had "true" DHS

Even then, you're losing .9 - 1.5 heat per ten. which is absolutely negligible when you're in the near 40 heat per 10 zone.

[Grease Monkey]

True doubles already exist, they must be earned, my K2 has better than true doubles btw. Get all your basic efficiencies then all elite which will double your basic. Among those basic efficiencies are coolrun and cooling threshold double those (15% and 20% after doubling) apply the increase to all your heatsinks, that includes the already base true doubles in the engine, and you have true doubles. Sometimes they will even wind up slightly better than true doubles. I might be wrong but I dont think it's possible to put so many 1.4s on that you pull it down below 2 average after the efficiencies increase. I dont know why more people dont know/understand this...Edit: dang it, ninjaed my mwhighlander. I'm too slow at typing on my phone.

Edited by Grease Monkey, 04 March 2013 - 07:08 PM.

[Stoicblitzer]

PanchoTortilla, on 04 March 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

Simple solution: make true 2.0 DHS consumables that cost MC.

you made me laugh.

[FiveDigits]

EmCeeMendez, on 04 March 2013 - 06:54 PM, said:

This horse is dead. Large energy weapons were just patched and reduced in heat to address this problem. DHS at 1.4 issue resolved.

There's nothing "resolved" about it. It is still an unbalanced (light favoring) and intransparent (many players don't know how it really works) mechanic.

Warrax the Chaos Warrior, on 04 March 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

With true DHS, I could easily run 3xERPPCs on an Awesome and still have space left over for a few mlas and AMS. If I want those things now, I have to drop heatsinks to get them.

Do you want me running around heat-stable on any map with 3xERPPCs and no compromises in my build? I'm just sayin'.

I do not know what you define as "heat-stable", but 3 ERPPCs generate 11 HPS (heat per second). 20 true DHS would dissipate a mere 4 HPS - as opposed to the 10 * 2.0 + 10 * 1.4 = 3.4 HPS now.
Heat efficiency would just increase from 31% to 36%.

[Stoicblitzer]

please not mathwarrior again!

[Viper69]

mwhighlander, on 04 March 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

We do have "True" double heat sinks, you tard.

Everything you wrote after this remark is nullified by your own ignorant jab.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

So you're telling me you want people who run min-maxers who run 4-6 ERPPC mechs to benefit from having obscene amounts of heat sinks? In your own words

Viper69, on 04 March 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

Everything you wrote after this remark is nullified by your own ignorant jab.

Edited by mwhighlander, 04 March 2013 - 07:12 PM.

[Viper69]

mwhighlander, on 04 March 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

So you're telling me you want people who run min-maxers who run 4-6 ERPPC mechs to benefit from having obscene amounts of heat sinks? In your own words

My point was your well intended post and good math points were nullified by you insulting him from the outset. that was my point.

If we had accurate armor values, weapon damage was dropped to tabletop values/number of shots per 10 seconds then double heat sinks armor and weapon damage would be in line with tabletop at real time speeds. Its not rocket science.

[FiveDigits]

Stoicblitzer, on 04 March 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

please not mathwarrior again!

Yeah, god forbid we have a discussion based on facts. Otherwise we wouldn't be able to utter baseless statements like this:

mwhighlander, on 04 March 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

So you're telling me you want people who run min-maxers who run 4-6 ERPPC mechs to benefit from having obscene amounts of heat sinks?

[LarkinOmega]

Thank you Viper. I accounted for that very fact in my Post Highlander, the fact is that mechs who don't need to fit as many DHS benefit MORE from the efficencies than Mechs who DO need them. And yes, I do run mechs that use more than 18 DHS.

[Little Nemo]

They tried true doubles. They even tried 1.5 and a Cicada was able to fire medium lasers for 2 minutes without overheating. (Via the NGNG podcast.)

It can't be done.