244 replies to this topic

[Bryan Ekman]

benth, on 05 March 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

This needs to be addressed.

This is slightly inaccurate. See above post and my comments on strategy.

[Yokaiko]

Bryan Ekman, on 05 March 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

Yes.

So why not bring the prices down? Say no more than 10mc/25,000 C-Bills for the single slot. That way free players at least have the option. Allow a stockpile if you would so if you do spend an evening doing 8s once in two weeks, you don't have to buy MC to be on par.

That is the crux, once its there it will be the standard in 8man play, so if you don't have it you are placing yourself at a disadvantage.

The variance between slots on the mechs to start with is potentially punishing i.e. the Stalkers that are single slotters unmastered. So your dedicated LRM boater NEEDS the two slots mastered for adv sensor range and target decay, at the price of an Atlas in C-bills + what 12,000 GXP ...potentially bought with MC anyway (a lot of mine were)...that he now may need for......Coolant Flushes.

-K2s, -4Ps -2As Jenner -F Awesome -8R....all have the same issue.

Now we have otherwise weaker mechs like Yen Lo Wang that have four slots are now artillery gods?

I'm having a rough time understanding the logic, beyond cynicism.

Edited by Yokaiko, 05 March 2013 - 11:01 AM.

[Super Mono]

So it's cheap enough that it's now a mandatory upgrade, despite many posts from the staff about how coolant flush is a bad idea:

Garth Erlam, on 24 September 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

Q: Have you guys considered adding Coolant Pods to increase heat dissipation of a mech's heatsinks when used? [vayne]

A: Yes, we considered and then dropped the idea. We found it more of a crutch and lead to more issues than it helped with. If you're in a long, multi-targetted single player game, it makes sense. In a player vs. player environment you get a MASSIVE increase in firepower for no cost, or it wouldn't be enough to make a difference (IE. the match would never last long enough for you running out of coolant to matter, because you've already killed two people. Or, it doesn't even last a single fight, then why even have it?) Does that make sense? [Garth]

Additionally, when more premium modules are included the space efficiencies of them will lead to a greater advantage as more of them can be loaded into mechs, while the cbill versions take up more slots to get the same result.

[General Taskeen]

Devs. Why not just have Coolant Pod equipable Tech if you guys are going the CF route? Obviously its not "available" by your implementation of time line standards, but it seems you guys were influenced by it and tried to find a way to include it. Combined with all of its build rules in and out of combat: 1 crit, 1 Ton. Can explode when critted, can't be mounted on Omni-Mechs, only one Active/Used at a time. Those disadvantages seem more logical to balance around including a Coolant.

I like the aspect of MWO's Mechlab and the various BT Tech you can weigh in on putting on your Mech with available crit space and tonnage. It just seems like a lost opportunity with that level of customization and the build rules already implemented thus far.

Edited by General Taskeen, 05 March 2013 - 11:01 AM.

[Rina Fujimoto]

I love how everyone suddenly changed their stance upon seeing the cheap prices without considering any of the implications behind it.

We Mechwarrior 4 now.

[Tabrias07]

There's no point in even attaching a cbill cost to them when it's that cheap. These will be even more of a mandatory upgrade than double heatsinks. Every mech will carry this, every game.

[Seanamal]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Bryan is being nice enough to explain how this stuff is supposed to work in some detail. Let's please not be abusive, so he will want to continue to do so!

[Broceratops]

do you guys realize that having two smaller flushes is often better than having 1 big flush, as you can ration it out as needed? and 15-20% reduction in heat is enough to get that final alpha in most of the time, so 35% in one shot is overkill.

[Bilbo]

Super Mono, on 05 March 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

So it's cheap enough that it's now a mandatory upgrade, despite many posts from the staff about how coolant flush is a bad idea:



Additionally, when more premium modules are included the space efficiencies of them will lead to a greater advantage as more of them can be loaded into mechs, while the cbill versions take up more slots to get the same result.

How, exactly, is it mandatory. I, personally, would rather keep my modules as equipped. I don't see myself dropping any of them for these 1 or 2 off heat reductions.

[Bryan Ekman]

Gihzmo, on 05 March 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Bryan, while I am not entirely convinced that this is a good thing. I really appreciate you getting on the forums and talking to us. I think that is more then we get from most developers. So, thank you.

You're welcome! I think most players will enjoy the added tactics and things to do within game. The arty/air strikes play into the scouting role, since they require line of sight targeting until the battlegrid control module comes online.

[para]

First, thanks for explaining, Bryan.

But why did you feel it was necessary to introduce coolant flush?
Weren't you concerned over PPC-boating Stalkers before the heat adjustments? With coolant flush, they'll be buffed significantly.

[hammerreborn]

haruko, on 05 March 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

I love how everyone suddenly changed their stance upon seeing the cheap prices without considering any of the implications behind it.

We Mechwarrior 4 now.

No, more like If I was a free player my (lets say 3 module) loadout would be sensor range, medium coolant/target decay (if it was a hot mech), and airstrike/artillery strike in the last slot (since you can't have both)

[Monkey Bone]

Bryan Ekman, on 05 March 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

This is slightly inaccurate. See above post and my comments on strategy.

Or just scrap the ******* idea.

[Monky]

Broceratops, on 05 March 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

do you guys realize that having two smaller flushes is often better than having 1 big flush, as you can ration it out as needed? and 15-20% reduction in heat is enough to get that final alpha in most of the time, so 35% in one shot is overkill.

20% will get you from 100% to 80%, so you're still in cookoff/alpha overheat range.

What situation are you running through your head where shaving off 15% or 20% heat is better than 35% in any practical combat?

Edited by Monky, 05 March 2013 - 11:05 AM.

[Budor]

Bryan Ekman, on 05 March 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

This is slightly inaccurate. See above post and my comments on strategy.

I fail to see in which way this is inaccurate. You get to fit more different modules with MC and you are actively restricting those to paying customers.

Moduels are endgame and now endgame is p2w.

Why is there no option to aquire tier3 for a high cbill cost if you are so concerned about not punishing the Free player?

Edited by Budor, 05 March 2013 - 11:08 AM.

[PropagandaWar]

Bryan Ekman, on 05 March 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

No. Arty and Air Strikes work differently.

Paul is going to post the details shortly.

Here's some highlights.

• There are cooldown timers. Cooldown timers make sure there is a space between shots and prevents a team coordinating a single massive strike.
  
• CB Version does more damage but is slower to target. 10,000 CB
  
• Version does less damage but is faster to target. 25
  
• Only one of each can be equipped.
  
• Only one user per match.
  
• Consumed when used.

Cool thanks. Test it out. I know you guys are good on the refund part if its bonkers. Still think bundles for MC and giving everyone access to tier 3 is a better option and will keep the PTW outta the equation (Even if it ins't exactly, the illusion of it is) but we'll see.

[benth]

Bryan Ekman, on 05 March 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

This is slightly inaccurate. See above post and my comments on strategy.

Clearly your colleague believes that coolant flush invalidates strategy.

[Yokaiko]

para, on 05 March 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

First, thanks for explaining, Bryan.

But why did you feel it was necessary to introduce coolant flush?
Weren't you concerned over PPC-boating Stalkers before the heat adjustments? With coolant flush, they'll be buffed significantly.

Not really a 6PPC stalker and 4 ER-PPC to a lesser extent cook off every three shots, and the 35% mod won't prevent that.

However, you bread and butter brawler D-DC get a LARGE boost because there is a lot fo time you can run it just under shutdown. This carriers for a lot of the heavier big hitters, -3Ds, most short range cats, a number of common Phracts etc.

[Bryan Ekman]

para, on 05 March 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

First, thanks for explaining, Bryan. But why did you feel it was necessary to introduce coolant flush? Weren't you concerned over PPC-boating Stalkers before the heat adjustments? With coolant flush, they'll be buffed significantly.

We are always concerned. The final numbers are being tested against some popular builds. If we find a major issue, expect some tweaks.

[Bilbo]

Monky, on 05 March 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

20% will get you from 100% to 80%, so you're still in cookoff/alpha overheat range.

What situation are you running through your head where shaving off 15% or 20% heat is better than 35% in any practical combat?

The situation where you use it before you reach 100 percent?