244 replies to this topic

[Cheetokun]

hammerreborn, on 05 March 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

Ya, two kill steals/kills instead of assists. It's not like the guy I was fighting wasn't about to die. It's stat padding, nothing more, nothing less. And instead of instantly being able to fire I'd have to wait a whole whopping 2-3 seconds to finish him off instead, or as I said, fire and slam p for instant shutdown, hit it again to pop right back up, and only temporarily stop moving before I move on to the next victim.

Did you purchase the hero cicada? Because it appears you are going 90 Kmph in reverse.

[Bilbo]

Cheetokun, on 05 March 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

You said it yourself. With the Cbill version, that's potentially two kills you might not have gotten without coolant flush. That means a lot in matches this size.

How can you be certain you wouldn't have gotten the kills without the flush? It doesn't take that long to bleed off 15-20% heat normally.

[Fut]

Super Mono, on 05 March 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

So it's cheap enough that it's now a mandatory upgrade, despite many posts from the staff about how coolant flush is a bad

How is it a mandatory upgrade?
My current 'Mech builds aren't heat-neutral, but I've learned how to use them to limit any overheating issues. I cannot see myself using any of the coolant flushes at all, as there are way better things to use module slots on...

It's only "mandatory" if you're running an Alpha-Strike:Online 'Mech....

[Elwood Blues]

hammerreborn, on 05 March 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

One salvo in an 8 minute match? Cry me a ******** river.

One extra salvo means a lot in this game. Especially for big alpha strike mechs. If I use a coolant flush to speed kill your mech, I have taken you out of the game and I don't need another flush because your team is now a mech down. Burst damage is very important. Coolant allows for heavy hitters to have even higher burst damage. That can result in you having far less time to respond before you're down.

[Yokaiko]

Fut, on 05 March 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

How is it a mandatory upgrade?
My current 'Mech builds aren't heat-neutral, but I've learned how to use them to limit any overheating issues. I cannot see myself using any of the coolant flushes at all, as there are way better things to use module slots on...

It's only "mandatory" if you're running an Alpha-Strike:Online 'Mech....

Neither here, nor there.

The precedent is being set and it (almost always) only goes down hill.

[hammerreborn]

Elwood Blues, on 05 March 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

One extra salvo means a lot in this game. Especially for big alpha strike mechs. If I use a coolant flush to speed kill your mech, I have taken you out of the game and I don't need another flush because your team is now a mech down. Burst damage is very important. Coolant allows for heavy hitters to have even higher burst damage. That can result in you having far less time to respond before you're down.

Coolant doesn't make your mech fire faster, so you can't "speed" kill anything using it. At best you avoid one shutdown in an entire match. And if someone's stupid enough to allow you to hit them 3 times in a row they deserve the death.

Coolant also doesn't allow heavy hitters to have even higher burst damage because it doesn't add anything to the burst! Jesus, get real arguments people. Higher sustained dps, sure, it'll have a slight boost, but it's not like this thing is allowing you to ultra ac/5 your ppcs.

Also, if you normally do 20 shots in a 5 minute match for 60 damage (6 ppc stalker), and with coolant you upped it to 21, guess what, you increased your total dps by a whopping .2 dps (assuming you are a perfect shot and that people live long enough to do that much damage.

There's also the entire argument that if you miss that magic bullet coolant salvo, you just basically threw away real money...so you have that going for you.

Edited by hammerreborn, 05 March 2013 - 12:28 PM.

[Liquidx]

Bryan Ekman, on 05 March 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

We may review this at a later date. We like to do everything in small bite sized steps, to minimize the impact of new mechanics.

You are forcing the frogs to be more vigilant and mindful of the water's temperature.

[Monky]

Bilbo, on 05 March 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

If my Atlas allows you to alpha strike me 3 times in ten seconds, I have issues that can't be fixed by removing coolant modules.

Right, in your 64 kph maximum atlas, you'll be expected to stick to cover 100% of the time. Keep making excuses for poor game design. If simple math based on known mechanics (current heat scale and damage output of existing workable designs) plus a minimum of 35% cooling on one or two cooldowns doesn't make sense as a bad idea at this juncture, I can't help ya.

Edited by Monky, 05 March 2013 - 12:28 PM.

[Bilbo]

Monky, on 05 March 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

Right, in your 64 kph maximum atlas, you'll be expected to stick to cover 100% of the time. Keep making excuses for poor game design.

I don't nee to maintain cover 100% of the time. I just need to stay out of your firing arc long enough to kill you myself or allow my team mates to do it.

[Fut]

Yokaiko, on 05 March 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

Neither here, nor there.

The precedent is being set and it (almost always) only goes down hill.

Well that didn't make any sense.
Duder was claiming that Coolant Flushes will be "mandatory" now. I can only assume he thinks this because of how "awesome" coolant flushes will. I'm contesting this by saying that not everybody plays this game as Alpha-Strike:Online, so not everybody will be in desperate need of this new module....

So explain how this isn't relevant to what duder said above, and explain how the precedent is being set to somehow make it so everybody uses Coolant Flushes..

Thanks.

[Seanamal]

Can we at least wait until we've actually got a chance to pay with this stuff before we decide that it's broken, over powered, or pay to win?

[Yokaiko]

Fut, on 05 March 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

So explain how this isn't relevant to what duder said above, and explain how the precedent is being set to somehow make it so everybody uses Coolant Flushes..

MC only consumables.

I could honestly give a **** about coolant flushes, the precedent is that there are going to be money only items that consumed in game.

Right now they are relatively weak, this is testing the water, soon they WON'T be weak, and if you want to play at the upper end of the totem pole, you will have to pay.

I'm not doing it, I'm not paying and I'm not playing....and I have already spent more on this game than I did in a couple years of normal subscription based games.

Edited by Yokaiko, 05 March 2013 - 12:33 PM.

[Wispsy]

I would prefer to have tier 3 available for 500 000 cbills just so that the option is there for serious games. On my Jenner I have 2 module slots. I would never use both on coolant flush it would be a waste (being a light without 350 is just asking to die), one however could come in very handy. So in all situations I would have coolant flush I have 15% less then somebody who has more money irl then me.

[Yokaiko]

Wispsy, on 05 March 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

I would prefer to have tier 3 available for 500 000 cbills just so that the option is there for serious games. On my Jenner I have 2 module slots. I would never use both on coolant flush it would be a waste (being a light without 350 is just asking to die), one however could come in very handy. So in all situations I would have coolant flush I have 15% less then somebody who has more money irl then me.

I probably can when I'm not just out screwing around.

But I'm not going to.

[General Cheese]

What is "heat sink efficiency" ?

Is it 35% of our Total Heat? Total Heat being that scale that shuts you down at 100%

Or it is how much our heat sinks are capable of cooling?

[Bubba Wilkins]

With Bryan's comments in thread, we now know that the modules are reasonably priced and that the MC versions are not necessarily clearly superior. Sure the coolant flush one is superior to the other coolant flushes available, BUT is it clearly superior to all other modules available? If the answer is no, then there is a compelling argument that it is not indeed P2W.

Above is the list of modules from shamelessly stolen from Ohm's guide thread (which should be restickied POST HASTE).

Given the known and anticipated modules and the limited number of slots available on each chassis, I for one will never be choosing a coolant flush as there will always be other modules that benefit my builds and playstyle more.

Edited by Bubba Wilkins, 05 March 2013 - 12:38 PM.

[Yokaiko]

General Cheese, on 05 March 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

What is "heat sink efficiency" ?

Is it 35% of our Total Heat? Total Heat being that scale that shuts you down at 100%

Or it is how much our heat sinks are capable of cooling?

Yes, Paul posted on it last night.

[Groumph]

At least they are honest: They want to make the MC route attractive...

And just for that i 'll keep playing till it will be a real deal breaker.

[Yokaiko]

Bubba Wilkins, on 05 March 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

With Bryan's comments in thread, we now know that the modules are reasonably priced and that the MC versions are not necessarily clearly superior. Sure the coolant flush one is superior to the other coolant flushes available, BUT is it clearly superior to all other modules available? If the answer is no, then there is a compelling argument that it is not indeed P2W.

Above is the list of modules from shamelessly stolen from Ohm's guide thread (which should be restickied POST HASTE).

Given the known and anticipated modules and the limited number of slots available on each chassis, I for one will never be choosing a coolant flush as there will always be other modules that benefit my builds and playstyle more.

Alright so where are the consumables on that list?

[Comassion]

Bryan, I think you guys might alleviate many concerns by simply having a C-Bill price for the Tier 3 consumables.

Now, it doesn't have to be on par with the Tier 1 and 2 guys. It could be 50k, 100K, or even more. If people value it that much, they can still work to grab it - they just won't be able to use it every match (but really, guys who pay MC for it can't use it every match either, as you'll end up paying quite a bit over time). Make the price differential sufficient that someone who wants one is tempted to spend the MC instead, but give the free players the chance to obtain these things, however hard they have to work for them.

Incidentally, I think you should do the same thing with the Hero 'mechs, just give them at obscene C-bill prices (100 Million or so) and leave the MC-cost as is (or lower, I do think the heroes are a bit overpriced myself - got my only one when it went on sale).