50 replies to this topic

[Wildstreak]

LRM lock on has existed since MW1. In the very first MW, Energy and Ballistic got the ability to aim unlike TT, what did LRMs get? Lock-on for balance. So people should stop saying Lock-on is skilless, it is skill based AND balance.

That said, LRMs in an actual fight, yes things like moving, cover provide some advantages BUT to be honest, there are disadvantages that must also be accounted for. One big one is if the LRM unit is not the only enemy engaging you. After watching some videos of MWO LRM users, I have seen plenty of times where a target of LRMs is also getting attacked by non LRM users so dogpiling helps the LRM boat get hits. One of many videos that I see this in, an Atlas-DC using 3LRM launchers just last month, no Artemis or at times LOS:

[Oni Ralas]

Stealthsfury, on 05 March 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

I thought ECM was OP? I guess everything is OP now. Oh wait, that would mean it was balanced...

ECM isn't OP, ECM+Stealth is OP. There is no reason it shrouds entire marching armies in total blackout while also jamming IFF.

[Commander Kobold]

StainlessSR, on 05 March 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

I have noticed that LRM's with the new pathing tend to not spread damage. I have watched 2 stalkers getting center cored by LRM's. They need to fix this as we are back at LRM Warrior online.

it's only if you're using artemis and as such only if you have direct line of sight.

edit: And on top of that it's only if you're standing still that it does a lot of dmg, 2 lrm15s+A will one shot most lights if they're standing still, but if they're running around most of the missles will crash into the ground.

Edited by Omni 13, 07 March 2013 - 02:34 PM.

[Commander Kobold]

Oni Ralas, on 06 March 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

ECM isn't OP, ECM+Stealth is OP. There is no reason it shrouds entire marching armies in total blackout while also jamming IFF.

the only op thing about ecm is the complete lock immunity, if they're going to keep their ecm hybrid that they made they should remove the lock immunity but keep the lock delay+remove target sharring so people with direct LoS can still get a lock.

[StainlessSR]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 06 March 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

Jesus too many posts about this crap.

LRM's are fine.

Go play for a while and check out your hit% with them.

And i'm sorry, if you stand out in the open and I'm shooting LRM's at you from 500m, I should be able to kill you.

It wouldn't be any different if I was doing it with Gauss Rifles or PPCs...actually it would be faster if I did because the damage is even more pinpoint.

It is not the hit percentage that is making lrm's so op right now, it isn't even indirect fire that is doing it, it is direct lrmboat artimis fire. This change to artimis has made them into streaks with a short range limit. 120 lrm's (2 voleys from 4 lrm15) cored a stalker on Alpine. I played a match where I dropped engine size and lasers to add a 5th launcher. 3 kills with 444 damage in a straight lrm mech. Direct artimis fire has the grouping too tight for the damage amount per missile. All the complaints about Streaks that got them nerfed now apply to LRM+Artimis. It would be better if the spread for direct fire was like LRM+Artimis is now for indirect fire while indirect fire was spread out a little more rather than nerfing damage per missile that way there is still a bonus for equipping Artimis.

[Khobai]

Quote

And i'm sorry, if you stand out in the open and I'm shooting LRM's at you from 500m, I should be able to kill you.

But not in one volley. Not even in two volleys. That is stupid. Period.

[Baltasar]

Khobai, on 06 March 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

But not in one volley. Not one even in two volleys. That is stupid. Period.

Again how many LRMs are you considering one volley. I assure you my 2 LRM 15s are not going to core you in a match unless maybe you are a light that is not moving.

[Praehotec8]

Look on the bright-side...maybe there will be fewer splatcats running around...

[Buffalo Six]

Prosperity Park, on 05 March 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

According to BattleTech, the Artemis Guidance System uses a microwave-band laser to assist with targeting, so the effect of Artemis is only active while you have direct Line of Sight on your target (i.e. if a hill gets in the way, your missiles will cluster as if you didn't have Artemis installed until you regain LOS, then your missiles will cluster back-up to their Artemis-enhanced state).

Which isnt a real problem with TT unless your playing by terrain rules and things get a bit wonky at that point..........

[Fut]

StainlessSR, on 06 March 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

Yes, but you should not be able to center core an atlas or stalker with one LRM shot due to this. The damage with this grouping is wrong, it has turned LRM's into long range Streaks with the type of damage spread that they(streaks) had before they got nerfed(spread damage).

StainlessSR, on 06 March 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

Yes, but you should not be able to center core an atlas or stalker with one LRM shot due to this. The damage with this grouping is wrong, it has turned LRM's into long range Streaks with the type of damage spread that they(streaks) had before they got nerfed(spread damage).

Even in the Testing Grounds, where the Atlai stay still, it takes multiple shots from an LRM15+TAG+Artemis @ 200m range to destroy one. So I have no idea what you're talking about.

Besides, if you're in a 'Mech and you're eating a full volley of LRMs at close range - you should feel the impact of it. It shouldn't just bounce off, or lightly scratch your paint job.

Khobai, on 06 March 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

Yes but its fine if they do 80% more damage provided the damage gets spread out. The problem is with artemis they now all go into the center torso. I have killed undamaged Atlases in one volley.

You can even try it out in the testing ground... build a five LRM15 Stalker, and go attack the Atlas-D with stock armor. You can kill it in a single volley... I mean how is that even remotely balanced?

Umm... It's balanced because you're shooting at it with 5 LRM15s!! That's 75 Missiles!
It's not that missiles aren't balanced properly, it's that boating them is quite powerful. The reason why I don't think it's a big deal is because your 5 LRM15 Stalker is a specialized build, and as soon as something comes withing 180m of you, you won't be hitting quite so hard. Or if you're trying to fire off without LOS(meaning no Artemis and no TAG [unless somebody else is TAG'n for you]) your LRM grouping will be spread out quite a bit and the damage won't be so bad.

The same **** can be said about some Ballistics or Laser.... 5 x LLs hits really hard, you know?

StainlessSR, on 06 March 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

It is not the hit percentage that is making lrm's so op right now, it isn't even indirect fire that is doing it, it is direct lrmboat artimis fire. This change to artimis has made them into streaks with a short range limit. 120 lrm's (2 voleys from 4 lrm15) cored a stalker on Alpine. I played a match where I dropped engine size and lasers to add a 5th launcher. 3 kills with 444 damage in a straight lrm mech. Direct artimis fire has the grouping too tight for the damage amount per missile. All the complaints about Streaks that got them nerfed now apply to LRM+Artimis. It would be better if the spread for direct fire was like LRM+Artimis is now for indirect fire while indirect fire was spread out a little more rather than nerfing damage per missile that way there is still a bonus for equipping Artimis.

Again, you were in a very specialized 'Mech here. With all those missiles firing off at a single enemy you should be able to destroy them. Especially because your target could have used Cover, AMS, or ECM to help avoid your missiles. OR they could have tried to flank you...etc.

Baltasar, on 06 March 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

Again how many LRMs are you considering one volley. I assure you my 2 LRM 15s are not going to core you in a match unless maybe you are a light that is not moving.

Exactly. These people are talking about a "volley" of ~70+ Missiles. It's crazy.
With that many missiles flying you should be able to do tremendous amounts of damage. The "balance" comes from the fact that they're putting all their eggs into one basket. 5 LRM launchers means less mid or close range weaponry, which means that a brawler would mop the floor with them if they can close range.

Edited by Fut, 07 March 2013 - 06:45 AM.

[Harmin]

My experience has been different to the OP.

Playing a STK 5M missile boat, engaged in a 1v1 slug fest with another missile boat.

I ended up blowing up with both side torsos blown (yes, XL engine) and NO damage to the center torso. Perhaps it has to do with the flight pattern, but it sure wasn't centered on one spot, more it seemed to be hitting in a circle pattern.

-Armin