242 replies to this topic

[vonWeber]

Yokaiko, on 06 March 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

I've spent right around $500 bucks on paint bays and hero mechs.

I HAVE support MWO, but I refuse to give them a red cent if MC only consumables exist.




yeah so what are the next MC onlys going to be. Because if this flies I assure you there will be more.

im sure they know its a thin red line they are walking here. in general doing it a little less intrusive than World of Tanks should work and be acceptable. noone in their right mind will use this stuff in random games. thats the majority of games played for the majority of players (hope u agree with me here). cw's may be different. but even in WoT u could earn the gold needed by winning cws and defending territory. so lets just see where we are heading.

[Yokaiko]

vonWeber, on 06 March 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

im sure they know its a thin red line they are walking here. in general doing it a little less intrusive than World of Tanks should work and be acceptable. noone in their right mind will use this stuff in random games. thats the majority of games played for the majority of players (hope u agree with me here). cw's may be different. but even in WoT u could earn the gold needed by winning cws and defending territory. so lets just see where we are heading.

I may keep an eye on it. I'm not paying for it though, or playing.

[ferranis]

vonWeber, on 06 March 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

im sure they know its a thin red line they are walking here. in general doing it a little less intrusive than World of Tanks should work and be acceptable. noone in their right mind will use this stuff in random games. thats the majority of games played for the majority of players (hope u agree with me here). cw's may be different. but even in WoT u could earn the gold needed by winning cws and defending territory. so lets just see where we are heading.

Most people are not in their right mind. Everything which gets them an advantage will be used even in pug games, real money cost or not.

[Team Leader]

Ok ok ok. Guys. Stop. This is in defense of Paul Inouye, not a discussion about the modules. Please discuss that somewhere else.

[vonWeber]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 06 March 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

Some people will though. I've done 1200 matches, that's 270 dollars if I'm buying consumables.

And someone is going to be paying that.

And I'm assuming the more coordinated corps will have 8 people do that.

it's rediculous.

you did 1200 competitive 8vs8 drops? you would use consumables in random games? you care, if someone (who has a crappy, hot running build that absolutely cant fit better modules) does?
cw is a point. but 10 bucks a month could go a long way here.

[Havyek]

Yokaiko, on 06 March 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

I've spent right around $500 bucks on paint bays and hero mechs.

I HAVE support MWO, but I refuse to give them a red cent if MC only consumables exist.

Didn't mean the "you" specifically. I can see you're a Legendary Founder (same as me). So the least we've spent on MWO is $120.

I've also spent a bit more on extra MC, though I'm probably still under the $200 mark. Some people feel the need to spend $$ on things to stay (or feel) competitive.

Personally, I'm sure I'll buy artillery and air strikes just to see what they do. After that (depending on how effective they are) I likely won't bother to use them because when I'm focused on target I'm shooting it or retreating from cover, or running like mad trying not to get destroyed in my light. I guess their use will depend on their usability (i.e. how long they take to set, how long they take to strike etc).

[Lyrik]

Is it pay to win when I move closer to the server?


PGI could always create leaderboards where the P2W stuff isn't allowed. And as long as the advantage are as miniscule as the coolant fluid ... yeah I can live with it.

It would be even when you could buy ALL the consumables with CB. Just up the costs.

[vonWeber]

ferranis, on 06 March 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

Most people are not in their right mind. Everything which gets them an advantage will be used even in pug games, real money cost or not.

no, it wont. gold ammunition wasnt obviously often used in WoT, otherwise they would not allow to pay for it with ingame credits. they somehow must have figured out, that ingame cash sinks motivate people into buying premium without feeling cheated and thus generating more money.

in cw everything that gives an advantage will be used. no point arguing against this. but as i said, if u are seriously into cw u will spend money on this game. and with 10 bucks a month u will be able to buy all the consumables u will need.

[Team Leader]

Team Leader, on 06 March 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

Ok ok ok. Guys. Stop. This is in defense of Paul Inouye, not a discussion about the modules. Please discuss that somewhere else.

[Atheus]

vonWeber, on 06 March 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

correct math. false assumptions. (hint: you wont need to spent $1000+/yr to fight on a level playing field).

False assumptions? Apparently your assumption is that you won't be facing anyone with a full set of MC consumables, and therefore your playing field is level? Whose assumption is false, do you think?

BDU Havoc, on 06 March 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

Your numbers are wrong right off the bat, since you can't mount 2 of the consumables that you can buy with MC. The only ones you can mount 2 of both cost c-bills, so are essentially free.


Unless you're talking about using a MC-bought coolant flush and a MC-bought Arty strike.
In that case, I think you're pretty dopey, but good on ya for supporting MWO.

Why would you assume I don't know what I'm talking about? Clearly I'm talking about the 3 different consumables that have been announced, not the 3 coolant flushes that can't be mounted simultaneously. Are you just here to make useless, distracting noise?

[Helmer]

Team Leader, on 06 March 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

Ok ok ok. Guys. Stop. This is in defense of Paul Inouye, not a discussion about the modules. Please discuss that somewhere else.

Agreed. Thanks Team Leader.


Please respect the OP and let's keep this particular thread focused on its intent. Modules do tangentially have to do with the topic, so some talk and mentions of them are only natural. However, let's try not to stray too far.


That being said. I personally am not a big fan of coolant in general (for various reasons) however,I implore people to wait and see. It's not nearly the issue some think it is. I do understand, and agree with the angst raised about "pandoras box" being open.

Glad to see some forum members have gotten past the bashing phase and into rational discussion. Things are not always as they appear on the surface, and bashing Garth and Paul was not constructive, and misplaced.






Cheers

Edited by Helmer, 06 March 2013 - 06:46 AM.

[ferranis]

vonWeber, on 06 March 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

no, it wont. gold ammunition wasnt obviously often used in WoT, otherwise they would not allow to pay for it with ingame credits. they somehow must have figured out, that ingame cash sinks motivate people into buying premium without feeling cheated and thus generating more money.

in cw everything that gives an advantage will be used. no point arguing against this. but as i said, if u are seriously into cw u will spend money on this game. and with 10 bucks a month u will be able to buy all the consumables u will need.

No one said the majority will, but some people will for sure.

[Bishop Steiner]

I just realized the secret meaning of P2W isn't "Pay to Win", but "Play to Whine".


I do love how readily people on these Forums starting shouting "FIRE!!!!" before they even smell smoke.

[Heeden]

I think the route they have taken is risky, but actually makes for interesting choices when (if) you want to spend real money.

Is a 35% flush you have to use in one go better than 20%+15% that can be used separately but take an extra module slot? It depends.

Is a faster, weaker airstrike better than a slower, stronger one? It depends.

Is a Centurion with an AC20 better than one with a smaller gun plus missiles? It depends.

MW:O has a pay-for-power system which some people find iffy, but it isn't pay-to-win without a distinct and definite advantage. I have yet to see a (non-cosmetic) MC item that does this over a C-bill alternative.

[vonWeber]

Atheus, on 06 March 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

False assumptions? Apparently your assumption is that you won't be facing anyone with a full set of MC consumables, and therefore your playing field is level? Whose assumption is false, do you think?


Why would you assume I don't know what I'm talking about? Clearly I'm talking about the 3 different consumables that have been announced, not the 3 coolant flushes that can't be mounted simultaneously. Are you just here to make useless, distracting noise?

your assumption, that in RANDOM games consumables (the premium ones) will be running wild and crazy and deciding every one of these matches is clearly false. my proofe would be world of tanks or just some common sense. like people want to waste money so they can earn a little more ingame credits and bragging rights vs randoms. yeah.

*edit* in my beloved ballistic builds that dont run hot i will probably have an advantage through better modules over someone who is using this flushstuff. its a onetime boost. situational at best. no good choice for many builds. its not like gold-ammo. so for now im pretty relaxed. arty and airstrike will probably only be usable by the commander. so one out of eight (twelve) who bought the mc stuff could have a marginal advantage over one out of eight (12) who only did buy the cb version.

Edited by vonWeber, 06 March 2013 - 06:53 AM.

[Mawai]

PANZERBUNNY, on 06 March 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

So some scrub can can 2 more alphas off in X amount of time...so what.

Have you team play a steady and disciplined game and it will have very little impact overall.



I do agree with this though.

If you can get this advantage with Mass C-Bills and whatever MC..I'm fine with it.

I don't think the issue is individuals using it ... the issue is the whole team.

If one mech on the team gets a couple of extra alpha strikes at the right time this will significantly increase their odds of destroying the target they are firing at ... assuming they use it against a vulnerable target.

However, multiply this by 8. Every mech on the opposing team gets 2 extra alpha attacks at the right time ... I think the odds are good it would affect the balance of the game. Does this then mean that to stay competitive with the "other" team you will have to have a coolant flush module?

I have the same concerns about artillery and airstrike modules. If they actually do enough damage to be worth taking ... then 8 of them could be devastating. Focused fire is the best approach to taking down enemy mechs ... focused use of consumable modules will likely function the same way.

[Atheus]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 March 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

I just realized the secret meaning of P2W isn't "Pay to Win", but "Play to Whine".


I do love how readily people on these Forums starting shouting "FIRE!!!!" before they even smell smoke.

If you aren't smelling smoke right now you need to get your nose checked.

[FupDup]

Team Leader, on 06 March 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

Everything is sub-par compared to a raven 3L

My Dakkaraven (4X with 2 AC/2 and 1 ML) disputes this claim!

[armyof1]

It always amazes me when some people can't see what is happening and can't think just a little bit ahead to how things will be in the near future. To start selling consumables that will give you a clear, not huge, advantage only for real money is of course only the beginning. You think those number crunchers at IGP when they see that money is starting to turn in from these tier 3 consumables (and the money will start to come in, because some people will always try to get an edge to win even for a small sum of money) won't escalate with even better consumables for MC that will maybe cost just a little bit more? Really, you can't see how this will progress? Unless the actual developers of this game can get free from the moneygrubbers in suits, the fate of MWO is already decided on the 19th this month when MC will start to help you win. No it's not a big step, but it's a beginning and it's a gentle way to get you used to the idea, that will slowly progress until you've lost track of how it could have become so bad in the first place.

OT: I don't think the guys actually working on the game like Paul and the other at PGI wanted this, so I don't blame them for it. But those damn publishers, they will ruin this game because to them it means absolutely nothing unlike the actual developers.

Edited by armyof1, 06 March 2013 - 06:55 AM.

[Atheus]

vonWeber, on 06 March 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

your assumption, that in RANDOM games consumables (the premium ones) will be running wild and crazy and deciding every one of these matches is clearly false. my proofe would be world of tanks or just some common sense. like people want to waste money so they can earn a little more ingame credits and bragging rights vs randoms. yeah.

The bottom line is in this PvP game, there WILL be a guy on the battlefield you are fighting on that has PURCHASED an item that gives him an advantage over you. You may lose the match as a result of this. When you lose because the other guy dumped some coin into a consumable, you will have been P2W'd. If you want to be sure you will never get beaten by larger wallet, you need to either pay to compete, find another game, or somehow get PGI to change their mind about superior MC-only equipment.