239 replies to this topic

[Max Power]

Well, if someone is able to get off an extra shot because of the coolant flush that kills an enemy that otherwise would have killed them, then that would be p2w.

That shot doesn't happen without the coolant flush. The coolant flush was purchased with $. Hence the pay-to-win moniker.

"1 mile over or 100 miles over" doesn't matter. The total effect really isn't the issue. It's the fact that the scenario exists at all.

[GrimlockONE]

Look at it like this, they have to come out with a way to make some revenue to generate more content. We cannot all sit here playing a triple A, it is not quite that but for arguements sake it will work, without having them getting financial support to develop the game.

THEY have given multiple options on coolant flush, it will not be the ultimate game changer, smart players will not rely on it, and the extra bonus for the MC verision is not so superior as to decree p2w.

[War Steiner]

Livewyr, on 06 March 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

They said that with the Hero Mechs.. who are clearly running about the battlefield owning everyone in their unique MC mech.
YLW: Fast, XL, AC20
(Don't have the Dragons, but I assume they have some unique trait)
Ilya: 3 UAC5s.
PBaby: Fastest Assault yet.

These mechs have clear advantages.. why aren't they mudstomping with their "numbers" P2W?

I don't think the Hero mechs are any advantage other than the C-Bill boost and the usually fugly paint job (that you can't change). Sure they are just a bit different but when I look at the build, I usually don't want the different hard point anyway.

I agree though. The game should not have "bought" advantages that you can't eventually accumulate. Fuzzy dice, added colors, things that don't matter are fine. Additional range, more damage, invisibility cloaks, should not be for purchase only.

[Yokaiko]

GrimlockONE, on 06 March 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

Look at it like this, they have to come out with a way to make some revenue to generate more content. We cannot all sit here playing a triple A, it is not quite that but for arguements sake it will work, without having them getting financial support to develop the game.

THEY have given multiple options on coolant flush, it will not be the ultimate game changer, smart players will not rely on it, and the extra bonus for the MC verision is not so superior as to decree p2w.

I've spent more on this game in beta than I would have in two years of subscription based AAA title.

.....because I wanted to, I'm NOT going to pay to remain competitive.

[Livewyr]

GrimlockONE, on 06 March 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

Look at it like this, they have to come out with a way to make some revenue to generate more content. We cannot all sit here playing a triple A, it is not quite that but for arguements sake it will work, without having them getting financial support to develop the game.

THEY have given multiple options on coolant flush, it will not be the ultimate game changer, smart players will not rely on it, and the extra bonus for the MC verision is not so superior as to decree p2w.

This, wholly this:

Is the MC version better? Yes. Is it a P2W worthy Advantage? hardly.

[Budor]

BS. Theres no respawns. A kill is a massive step forward to victory. 35% heat is a major advantage.

[The Legendary Samurai]

Deleted.

Edited by The Legendary Samurai, 06 March 2013 - 06:22 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Livewyr, on 06 March 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

This, wholly this:

Is the MC version better? Yes. Is it a P2W worthy Advantage? hardly.

If its better, and its used in combat, that by definition is pay to win. The hero mechs are different all with pluses and minuses.

This is different, this is exactly the argument I used when I said the hero mechs were not P2W.

[Livewyr]

Yokaiko, on 06 March 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

LOL

If you need us to tell you, your goldvision is deeper than most.

If 15% more heat dissipated once in a battle is game breaking to you..then you have hypochondria.

[Budor]

The Legendary Samurai, on 06 March 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

Okay, I'll explain:

You cannot equip 2 tier3 coolants. The p2w comes with 35% + module of your desire vs. 15% + 20% (this is on mechs with 2 module slots).

Livewyr, on 06 March 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

If 15% more heat dissipated once in a battle is game breaking to you..then you have hypochondria.

Its either 15% more or +1 free module slot and its only available with real money. If this is not p2w i dont know what is.

I would be completely fine if tier3 would be obtainable for 100,000cbills, thats still p2w but at least you have the option to obtain it without shelling out real money.

Edited by Budor, 06 March 2013 - 06:21 AM.

[Livewyr]

Yokaiko, on 06 March 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

If its better, and its used in combat, that by definition is pay to win. The hero mechs are different all with pluses and minuses.

This is different, this is exactly the argument I used when I said the hero mechs were not P2W.

I tend to add a little context to my numbers before making a decision about them. (otherwise going 67mph on a 65mph road could "reasonably" earn you Jail time...)

[Padic]

I am mostly seeing slippery-slope arguments, which I struggle to buy into. "If people can buy a better coolant, soon people will be able to buy REALLY P2W stuff".

It just seems like a way of dismissing an idea as "these people are obviously too stupid to know when enough is enough".

I hope I am never obligated to use consumables. They do not appeal to me at all. If other pilots want to pay for mana potions, I'm not passionate enough about it to campaign to stop them.

[Yokaiko]

Livewyr, on 06 March 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

If 15% more heat dissipated once in a battle is game breaking to you..then you have hypochondria.

No but I can think back to all of the times I've overheated with an atlas in my face and got destroyed because I couldn't avoid his friends in shutdown.

Its not actually coolant flush being added that irks me. Its the premise, this is testing the waters, if they can quell the outrage, there will be more, and there is NO assurance that they will keep it "slight" or even that there will be 5-6 more MC only consumables that you WILL need if you want to be competitive.

I've spent just shy of $500 on this game thus far, and again I'm NOT paying to be comnpetitive. So either the MC only crap goes away or I do.

Period.

Edited by Yokaiko, 06 March 2013 - 06:22 AM.

[GrimlockONE]

Yokaiko, on 06 March 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

I've spent more on this game in beta than I would have in two years of subscription based AAA title.

.....because I wanted to, I'm NOT going to pay to remain competitive.

That is your perogitive, but the only person you will be hurting is yourself. Also, you do not have to PAY TO REMAIN COMPETITIVE.

Coolant Flush does not = OMGERD I CAN FIRE ALLZ MY LAZURZZZZZ ALLLZZZZ ZEEE TIMEEEE NAOOOOOZZZZ

[Livewyr]

Budor, on 06 March 2013 - 06:19 AM, said:

Its 15% more and only available with real money. If this is not p2w i dont know what is.

Just like above: if going 67mph on a 65mph road isn't a felony, I don't know what is.



I'm trying to figure out how to express to the numbers gang that the context is just as important as the numbers when making a P2W argument... I've tried road speeds thus far.. anyone have any ideas?

[The Legendary Samurai]

Budor, on 06 March 2013 - 06:19 AM, said:

You cannot equip 2 tier3 coolants. The p2w comes with 35% + module of your desire vs. 15% + 20% (this is on mechs with 2 module slots).

You're right. Thanks for correcting my mistake.

[Yokaiko]

GrimlockONE, on 06 March 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

That is your perogitive, but the only person you will be hurting is yourself. Also, you do not have to PAY TO REMAIN COMPETITIVE.

Not yet, and I won't be around to see if it gets to that point. One step is too far.

[Livewyr]

Yokaiko, on 06 March 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

Its not actually coolant flush being added that irks me. Its the premise, this is testing the waters, if they can quell the outrage, there will be more, and there is NO assurance that they will keep it "slight" or even that there will be 5-6 more MC only consumables that you WILL need if you want to be competitive.

Someone went 67mph in a 65mph speed zone!

Clearly the next step for them is 90mph.. (that is what we call the doom prophecy.. and it gets old.. just like this speed analogy will, until the doom prophecy is brought back contextual thought.)

Padic, on 06 March 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

I am mostly seeing slippery-slope arguments, which I struggle to buy into. "If people can buy a better coolant, soon people will be able to buy REALLY P2W stuff".

It just seems like a way of dismissing an idea as "these people are obviously too stupid to know when enough is enough".

I hope I am never obligated to use consumables. They do not appeal to me at all. If other pilots want to pay for mana potions, I'm not passionate enough about it to campaign to stop them.

I'll be buying 10K Cbill Airstrikes all day long.. you could sleep through a match and earn 2 more...

Edited by Livewyr, 06 March 2013 - 06:25 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

It's not even about the Coolant to me.

It's about the standard it is setting.

When is it too much?

If 15% extra cooling doesn't bug you, what if they release a consumable that ups your damage by 30% for 30 seconds? Or a consumable that disables an enemy mech for 5 seconds?

Where does it stop?

Once you start adding items that are better due to using cash to purchase, it opens up a door you can't close.

[Yokaiko]

Livewyr, on 06 March 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

Someone went 67mph in a 65mph speed zone!

Clearly the next step for them is 90mph.. (that is what we call the doom prophecy.. and it gets old.. just like this speed analogy will, until the doom prophecy is brought back contextual thought.)



I'll be buying 10K Cbill Airstrikes all day long.. you could sleep through a match and earn 2 more...

Fine you pay it. I haven't even logged in since they announced it. The $50 I was going to spend on the X-5 and more bays remains unspent, and a $1000 a year (at the rate I've been going) vanishes.

...and I'm willing to bet I'm not alone.