239 replies to this topic

[ssm]

Yokaiko, on 06 March 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

Quote

I'm pretty sure that if developers cave to the Great Coolant Outrage of '13 and restrict their revenue-making to fuzzy dice, colours and mechbays there is a significant risk of this game being killed. Sorry guys, it's business, money needs to keep flowing.

Its dead to me either way.

Can I ask you then, kindly, what are you still doing here?

Edited by ssm, 06 March 2013 - 06:40 AM.

[Budor]

Detrick Frost, on 06 March 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

It doesn't matter how much "P2W" items they put into a game, any game. If a player sucks, they just suck and no amount of consumable is going to save their six from the enemy they face. "P2W" is a useless argument in most cases as the good players, even the average player, isnt going to waste the money to buy something they don't need. It will always be those players that are inept at playing the game that pay out the money for these "needful things".

How about 2 "good" players and only 1 of those is stacked with p2w stuff.

[Team Leader]

Padic, on 06 March 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

That is a gross over-simplification. Wow.

Olivia Maybach, on 06 March 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

Did you... did... did he... did you just... you wouldn't... nobody would... did... did you just try to illustrate the current potential P2W issue by comparing it to the appeasement of ? You did? No... seriously? You DID? You realize that when you this you lose all the things, right?

Lol. While I admit its extreme, it really is the same general concept. I'm not saying this is the same as Adolf occupying Europe. It's more like the frog in a pot of boiling water thing. Raise the temperature slowly and it doesn't complain. And then it dies. Just like this game might if they don't stop here.

Edited by Team Leader, 06 March 2013 - 06:42 AM.

[Noobzorz]

Livewyr, on 06 March 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

You think the possibility of that happening is going to make that one-time use module worth even it's space? Over an Airstrike? (or any other useful module out there? )


And yes, World of Tanks started off Pay to Win...Gold rounds.

You get one more alpha. That is huge. Moreover, if it's like the coolant pods, I expect that the arty and airstrikes will be "different and balanced" the way machine guns and SRMs are.

As for your primadonna attention seeking signature that came from the same attitude that caused you to post this topic so you could engage people in a "discussion" about this: one time use coolant pods are THE DEFINITION of P2W. Quit being dramatic yourself, and get over yourself. What you are exhibiting is like stockhold syndrome. "Ok, it's clearly bad in every way, but it could be worse!"

[Yokaiko]

ssm, on 06 March 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

Can I ask you then, kindly, what are you still doing here?

Waiting for a phone call at work actually, and hoping someone at PGI gets their head above their waist.

[Sifright]

Detrick Frost, on 06 March 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

It doesn't matter how much "P2W" items they put into a game, any game. If a player sucks, they just suck and no amount of consumable is going to save their six from the enemy they face. "P2W" is a useless argument in most cases as the good players, even the average player, isnt going to waste the money to buy something they don't need. It will always be those players that are inept at playing the game that pay out the money for these "needful things".

and yet when two people of equal skill play the person with numerical superiority due to an advantage that can only be bought with real money wins.
I'd rather not suffer through that thank you.

and i've been invited to participate in high level e-sports for games like Cstrike and I'd rather not have to get sponsored to afford to pay the in game costs of competing in a tournament never mind the costs of flights and such.

[FrDrake]

Livewyr, on 06 March 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

.....

It wouldn't bug me if they hadn't explicitly told me when I first started reading about this game nearly a year ago that this is the kind of thing they WOULD NOT do. I have defended every move in the past, even the fact that Hero mechs didn't have cbill alternatives, even though it's always irked me.

1. You keep tossing around the number 15% like that's the difference in cooling. No one runs 10 standard heat sinks, anyone who will be considering buying these will have at least doubles and probably even a few more than that. So now we're automatically at 30% cooling differential as a baseline. In your analogy that puts us at 5mph over speed limit, which IS where you start to get a ticket. And when it comes down to it, how is going 2mph over the limit any less breaking the law than going 20mph over the speed limit. It's still breaking the law, and you can't deny it.

2. The slippery slope argument holds more weight because this is really phase 2 of p2win. Hero mechs who didn't have a cbill version with a different name but same hardpoints was phase 1. They slipped that over the whole community and convinced most of you that wasn't really pay2win when it really was, so now this is where we're headed. This isn't the first step, it's the second.

I will continue to play, because I've waited for a long time for this game, but this leaves a horrible taste in my mouth about what they're willing to go back on, and what they feel should be in the game, I would prefer no coolant flush to begin with like they also said about 1000 times.....

[Noobzorz]

ssm, on 06 March 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

Can I ask you then, kindly, what are you still doing here?

The answer should be obvious. He is a legendary founder who has spent a ton of money on this game with the assurance it would never be P2W, and now not only is all that trust (which came in a direct pecuniary form, no less) being betrayed, but now the game he really likes is changing in a hugely negative way that the devs assured it would not (both the P2W and the coolant thing).

[GrimlockONE]

I am not too concerned about P2W in it could simply be excluded from use. Look at MLG and how they standardize weapon loadouts for drops.

For MWO, RHOD could simply stipulate for competitive fairness no teams will be allowed to run coolant pods since it requires cash for full benefits.

This is more less a question for TheMagician regarding RHOD but competitive leagues I have played in stipulate many aspects of the game to offer balance and this is something we can do with MWO,

[Yokaiko]

Noobzorz, on 06 March 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

The answer should be obvious. He is a legendary founder who has spent a ton of money on this game with the assurance it would never be P2W, and now not only is all that trust (which came in a direct pecuniary form, no less) being betrayed, but now the game he really likes is changing in a hugely negative way that the devs assured it would not (both the P2W and the coolant thing).

Pretty much.

[Whompity]

Sifright, on 06 March 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

in fairness to him shutting up and taking being defecated on never leads to the person defecating in your face going on my goodness I'm terrible sorry I didn't realise you didn't enjoy that.

Better, but hyperbole quotient still dangerously high there.

[GrimlockONE]

I give this thread 2-5 more pages before closure.

[Team Leader]

GrimlockONE, on 06 March 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

I give this thread 2-5 more pages before closure.

I think it needs more references to dictators

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

Maybe we all should wait and see how it works in game? Right now that's just speculations. Maybe it will work well actually, like hero mechs?
Anyway, I have my pitchfork ready just in case.

Edited by Krzysztof z Bagien, 06 March 2013 - 06:48 AM.

[Michael Costanza]

Thorqemada, on 06 March 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

Well, its common knowledge that teams that have a disconnect early in the game have a significant lower chance of winning.
Its an example to show how fragile the balance of the teams is - how easy it is to get on the losing track.

In a coordinated team environment being able to dish out 8x1 or 8x2 more alphas is game deciding and it will be done bcs people can do it - that means the p2w armsrace starts!

If there is an early disconnect in a public game, that's even more reason _not_ to use a consumable since you get more xp and cbills when you win. The consumables should be helping you snowball c-bill and xp when you're close to winning or already winning.

[Noobzorz]

GrimlockONE, on 06 March 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

I give this thread 2-5 more pages before closure.

I hope so. I haven't been here a ton, but it seems to me like at least one of the mods is not taking a balanced approach to this issue. If this idiotic thread gets locked down, it would go a long way to proving me wrong.

[Viper69]

Let me ask you this...

Atheletes do a lot more for a lot less of an advantage so any advantage is still an advantage. Ask lance Armstrong, Carl Lewis, Barry Bonds and Mark Mcguire. You think they would have not done what they did if it did not offer an advantage even a small percentage?

In competitions of high level sometimes 1% can make the difference in winning or not. So yes people will use any advantage they can legally use.

Edited by Viper69, 06 March 2013 - 06:52 AM.

[Yokaiko]

http://mwomercs.com/...o-be-freetoplay

Quote

Now let’s talk about Pay-To-Win, the red-headed step child (no offense to all the red heads, we really do love you).
There are those who will rumble about Pay-2-Win, which equates to the person with the biggest wallet winning. I’m not going to lie, some things can and will allow you to acquire items faster, or even instantly with real cash.
Foul! Foul! You said you can’t buy a tactical advantage! That’s a stick! That guy with the wallet is going to be able to buy the biggest, bad assed items in the game! He’s going to kick my butt with his wallet
Well here’s some food for thought, maybe the biggest isn’t always the best! To take a quote from an early MechWarrior® presentation – This is not your father’s MechWarrior®! One of our core pillars is Role Warfare and is designed to, well – level the playing field – another concept from our original design. We're doing away with the arms race and making BattleMechs of all shapes and sizes have a purpose and role on the battlefield. If you love scouting, grab that light mech, train and gear it up. Be that sneaky guy who relays critical information back to the rest of your lance. Maybe you’re a commander type, who loves to multitask, directing fire support, air strikes, and multiple lances in a mech suitable to that role. If you play any of these roles well, and with skill, you will be rewarded.

All Carrot no Stick, remember that ********?

[DarkBazerker]

Thorqemada, on 06 March 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

Well, its common knowledge that teams that have a disconnect early in the game have a significant lower chance of winning.
Its an example to show how fragile the balance of the teams is - how easy it is to get on the losing track.

In a coordinated team environment being able to dish out 8x1 or 8x2 more alphas is game deciding and it will be done bcs people can do it - that means the p2w armsrace starts!

Doesn't matter how many alphas they do if they miss.

[Padic]

Team Leader, on 06 March 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

Lol. While I admit its extreme, it really is the same general concept. I'm not saying this is the same as Adolf occupying Europe. It's more like the frog in a pot of boiling water thing. Raise the temperature slowly and it doesn't complain.

I mean, as a historical reference, appeasement is easy to laugh at now, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a reasonable philosophy.

Remember, they were just coming off from World War 1 - the very worst thing humanity had ever seen. Plotting a course that doesn't force you straight into WW2 is sane at worst. And, besides, it costs nothing to try because ...

When appeasement was popular, Germany was annexing countries that were on the wrong side of WW1. It's not like he was invading France or England (Or even Poland) yet. The Stalwart good guys. No one cared about Austria.

Obviously, what came next didn't turn out well for anyone.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that the historical subtleties of appeasement make this a terrible analogy.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Appeasement