239 replies to this topic

[Team Leader]

DarkBazerker, on 06 March 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

Doesn't matter how many alphas they do if they miss.

That's completely irrelevant

[Thirdstar]

I like how the OP asks people to prove him wrong and then discounts everyone's arguments. This thread was made with a preconceived notion and nothing anyone can say will change the OP's mind.

The entire thread is a Red Herring.

[Viper69]

DarkBazerker, on 06 March 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

Doesn't matter how many alphas they do if they miss.

Its not the people missing doing alphas you need to worry about I think.

Me thinks the devs are making their 3 second jenner/cicada anyway regardless of heatsinks.

[Team Leader]

Thirdstar, on 06 March 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

I like how the OP asks people to prove him wrong and then discounts everyone's arguments. This thread was made with a preconceived notion and nothing anyone can say will change the OP's mind.

The entire thread is a Red Herring.

SHUTUP thirdstar YOUR ARGUEMENT DOESN'T COUNT

[Viper69]

Thirdstar, on 06 March 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

I like how the OP asks people to prove him wrong and then discounts everyone's arguments. This thread was made with a preconceived notion and nothing anyone can say will change the OP's mind.

The entire thread is a Red Herring.

No doubt jettison this *****

Team Leader, on 06 March 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

SHUTUP thirdstar YOUR ARGUEMENT DOESN'T COUNT

Shut up team leader who made you leader anyway

haha everyone is wrong!!!!

J/k for the jokingly dense among us.

[Thirdstar]

I greatly dislike thread made in bad faith, like this one.



Mods won't do jack **** though, they know which side their bread is buttered.

Edited by Thirdstar, 06 March 2013 - 06:58 AM.

[GrimlockONE]

General theme I am gathering about the thread we are in now...






People claiming P2W ^^^^^^

Edited by GrimlockONE, 06 March 2013 - 07:02 AM.

[Sayyid]

Aphoticus, on 06 March 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

Two, I say, 2 hexppc blast instead of one!!!! Pull out the plug, game over, man. Why don't you put her in charge!

Maybe we could build a fire, sing a couple of songs?! Why dont we try that?

[Thirdstar]

GrimlockONE, on 06 March 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

snip

If you don't have anything worthwhile to post you could have just said so, and spared everyone your inept attempts at humour.

[Lyrik]

Sifright, on 06 March 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

and yet when two people of equal skill play the person with numerical superiority due to an advantage that can only be bought with real money wins.
I'd rather not suffer through that thank you.

and i've been invited to participate in high level e-sports for games like Cstrike and I'd rather not have to get sponsored to afford to pay the in game costs of competing in a tournament never mind the costs of flights and such.

Hightech sports like F1 racing/Tpur de France are always pay to win. Every serious sportler need sponsoring. Even a lot of "Amateur" athletes need sponsoring. . .

[MonkeyCheese]

It may not seem like a problem now, but further down the road when real modules are actually a thing and can change the tide of the battle having that extra module slot while still having the 35% coolant can be called pay to win.

Why would an extra module be important you may ask?

If modules off this POSSIBLE list make it into the game


Vision – Vision Mode Disruptor
Support – Artillery Accuracy
Sensor – Hide Damage
Sensor – Adv. Sensor Range
Support – Friendly Defense
Sensor – Target Info Gathering
Target – Multi Target
Vision – Vision Mode Enhancement
Target – Multi Target Rank 2
Sensor – Seismic Sensor
Target – Targeting Delay
Sensor – Adv Seismic Sensor
Sensor – Instant Signal Loss
Sensor – Megnetometer
Target – Disrupt HUD
Target – Control Link
Target – Disable Comms Support – Control Link
Sensor – Orbital Scan Support – Drone
Target – Target Decay Support – Adv Drone
Target – Target Decay Rank 2
Support – Unit Vision Modes
Support – Airstrike Accuracy


taken from here http://mwomercs.com/...s-excel-inside/

these are placeholders from the gamefiles yes but my point is real. I can see plenty in this list that would be an advantage if you can carry one more compared to your enemy.


Edit; a clear example, both mechs have 3 module slots, you have mc 35% coolant, artillery strike and artillery accuracy and your enemy has 2 coolant modules and artillery strike. I think I know where I would rather be,

I tell ya its pandoras box

Edited by MonkeyCheese, 06 March 2013 - 07:17 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Livewyr, on 06 March 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

I have a little more faith in PGI than that.. think about it.. they could've just released an MC cooling pod and MC airstrike without Cbill alternatives.. nobody's putting a gun to their head. Clearly they thought ahead

"while we want to give MC purchase an incentive, there should be a Cbill alternative within the concept."

I don't think they're stupid, or trying to kill their game with P2W...

See this quote is funny considering how much you've been railing on ECM.

Have they acknowledged any of that? With all this going on do you really think they are going to fix it now?

What in their track record makes you believe in them so much?

[Belorion]

Depending on how the item scales with heat sinks, the cb version may allow two extra alphas during the course of the fight. With a 6xPPC Awesome that could be a potential damage of 60 over the MC version.

[Yokaiko]

Belorion, on 06 March 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

Depending on how the item scales with heat sinks, the cb version may allow two extra alphas during the course of the fight. With a 6xPPC Awesome that could be a potential damage of 60 over the MC version.

It scales off of your max heat capacity according to Paul, so yes, more heatsinks = more effective in absolute numbers.

[Sifright]

Team Leader, on 06 March 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

I think it needs more references to dictators

You rang?

[GrimlockONE]

Thirdstar, on 06 March 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

If you don't have anything worthwhile to post you could have just said so, and spared everyone your inept attempts at humour.

Your internet bravado and machismo has probably earned you plenty of ***. Just making light of all the crybabies in here, and if you reflect back a few pages, which I am sure you have read all the posts, you would have seen my contribution.

I will simply amend that here though, so you dont have to work too hard.

GrimlockONE, on 06 March 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

Look at it like this, they have to come out with a way to make some revenue to generate more content. We cannot all sit here playing a triple A, it is not quite that but for arguements sake it will work, without having them getting financial support to develop the game.

THEY have given multiple options on coolant flush, it will not be the ultimate game changer, smart players will not rely on it, and the extra bonus for the MC verision is not so superior as to decree p2w.

GrimlockONE, on 06 March 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

I am not too concerned about P2W in it could simply be excluded from use. Look at MLG and how they standardize weapon loadouts for drops.

For MWO, RHOD could simply stipulate for competitive fairness no teams will be allowed to run coolant pods since it requires cash for full benefits.

This is more less a question for TheMagician regarding RHOD but competitive leagues I have played in stipulate many aspects of the game to offer balance and this is something we can do with MWO,

Edited by GrimlockONE, 06 March 2013 - 07:27 AM.

[Stoicblitzer]

Livewyr, on 06 March 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

I would like someone to explain to me the decisive advantage of dumping one's heat 35% as compared to 15% ONCE (I repeat, ONCE) in an entire match is some game breaking advantage worthy of the ***t-posting hot-button phrase: "Pay-to-Win."

You don't get to dump 35% every 30-60 seconds.. or even every 2 minutes.. so you don't get to run a new hotter build with any success.

If you're really finding yourself heat-inefficient and would rather purchase a module than fix your build, there is one for 15% (or if you're really desperate, there are two for combined 35%) that you may use to attempt to fight effectively for about 6 seconds.

(I imagine PGI didn't want to add them in the first place, as I agree that one-coolant flush isn't even worth the module space. It was probably from IGP, but regardless of that.. it's still practically useless.)
(I'd say momentary save with the most effective use.)

So other than the lame-duck "It's usable in game" argument, what advantage worthy of "P2W" does this 35% module give you?

I'm with you. Also, they say 35% cooling based on 10 HEAT SINKS therefore it's probably less effective with >10 HS. Same amount of coolant spread across 20 HS will likely be less effective than spread across only 10 HS is what I'm assuming. I don't think this is a big deal. I likely won't be using it because i'm lazy as it is with switching modules on mechs. Furthermore, I have a feeling the C-bill versions will be like 1,000,000+ each considering the current cost of modules. Lol I may only use them in competitive play at prices like that.

[TB Freelancer]

A Mastered 3L spending money can have (when we have that many) 4 MC modules, while someone just spending Cbills can only use 2 at full effect because they need to use the two lower tiers to equal the MC tier. Or they can use 4 modules at a substantially weaker effect.

MonkeyCheese, on 06 March 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

The problem is once we all walk down this MC only item road there is no going back, sure this coolant thing may seem small now but wait until the real paying for larger advantages comes.

I shall state it once again, pandoras box has been opened.

Yeah. Wide open....

....gold ammo is a hop, skip and a jump away.

Edited by TB Freelancer, 06 March 2013 - 07:31 AM.

[Livewyr]

Thirdstar, on 06 March 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

I like how the OP asks people to prove him wrong and then discounts everyone's arguments. This thread was made with a preconceived notion and nothing anyone can say will change the OP's mind.

The entire thread is a Red Herring.

It's like those countless other threads that are determined that it is P2W and any counter-argument is discounted.
Like they had some preconceived notion and nobody can change their mind..

At what value something becomes P2W is debatable, my argument here is that context matters just as much as numbers (if not more) and thus far the majority of responses I've gotten have been preconceived notions that any numbers advantage is P2W and therefore this is P2W without any reference to context. And I believe this line of thinking is false and dangerous when it comes to categorizing and balancing things in game.

[Yokaiko]

Stoicblitzer, on 06 March 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

I'm with you. Also, they say 35% cooling based on 10 HEAT SINKS therefore it's probably less effective with >10 HS. Same amount of coolant spread across 20 HS will likely be less effective than spread across only 10 HS is what I'm assuming. I don't think this is a big deal. I likely won't be using it because i'm lazy as it is with switching modules on mechs. Furthermore, I have a feeling the C-bill versions will be like 1,000,000+ each considering the current cost of modules. Lol I may only use them in competitive play at prices like that.

Read first, then try to prove someone wrong

Quote

]Eeesh. Saw some numbers people were throwing around and this needs clarification now...


CB Coolant Flush Tier 1 = 15% cooling of TOTAL heat on your Mech.
CB Coolant Flush Tier 2 = 20% cooling of TOTAL heat on your Mech.
TOTAL cooling of your Mech is 35%.[/color]

MC Coolant Flush = 35% cooling of TOTAL heat on your Mech.

Look at it this way, you get the SAME TOTAL heat dissipation on BOTH purchase methods. The C-bill one gives you the opportunity to dump twice in 1 match at the cost of a module slot

http://mwomercs.com/...10-consumables/

Oh and 68,000 according to Bryan.

Edited by Yokaiko, 06 March 2013 - 07:31 AM.