128 replies to this topic

[RoboPatton]

I was mainly a Raven 3L pilot since they were introduced. I never really realized just how OP they can be until I went head to head with a few in my Cicada. It's such a big target compared to the the raven, and has similar armament, the ct is huge on the Cica and the one on the raven is tiny. It gets pretty decent armor too, if you max it out.

I'm always leary about crying "nerf!" but if you have ECM, and a small profile you already have a huge advantage. Even as a 3-L pilot myself, I agree it has one too many weapons slots or too high a potential speed. It needs a SMALL nerfing.

[Anderl]

easier to kill since last patch, but raven 3L is still too op.

(didnt read all posts, but additionaly to the arguments i saw it has an amazing ammount of module slots btw)

maybe think about making more mechs able to use ecm and
boost weapon speed,Range, the time it works AND the ammount of ammo of Narc-Beacon
which is completly useless at the moment.

[Featherwood]

I think we need some Dev post here on the matter of broken RVN-3L. After Bryan's promise to consider ECM revamp and Paul's post on broken S-SRM/SRM damage, it's time for PGI to acknowledge the problem of unbalanced Raven RVN-3L as well. I still can't handle myself after being killed by *** in auto-hitting invisible ****. My view on fix for it:

• Remove 'invisibility' effect from ECM bonuses
  
• Implement more logical Hardpoints allocation and restrictions - limit number of Streak SRMs RVN-3L could carry
  
• Streak SRMs must have more realistic missile fligth trajectories and missile targeting homers restrictions/limits
  
• Limit max engine by XL250

Edited by Featherwood, 17 March 2013 - 04:00 AM.

[Jabilo]

Leg damage bug and streak splash damage both being sorted in the next 2 patches.

It might be this issue resolves itself to some degree.

[Darokin Korin]

I'm also in agreement that the Raven needs adjustment. My most recent game had a 3L overheat right in front of my Muromets. I lined up my 3 LLs and 2 AC/5 right on it's center torso. I was able to fire the lasers and 1 AC/5 before it powered up and ran off. WTF? And this was after it had already taken damage from other mechs.

[Jack Lowe]

sorry didn't read every post so if this has been said apologies in advance. From the first page or two I did read there's theories about ECM, armorment and hit box issues making the mech OP well to a point all are correct. From another thread that can be found pinned in the latest patch thread we've been dicussing the same thing from a different angle. If u go there you'll see that splash damage is broken and also with some digging find that paul has announced it will be removed on the 2nd of April. What this means is that the raven's srm and ssrm's are doing sometimes as much as 2 or 3 times the intended damage. Some chassis are more prone that others. Any one that disputes or is curious can do a simple test. Go to the test ground with a srm6 go up to between 20 and 30 meters of the commado and shoot it once dead CT. It will either die instantly or have nothing left but red internals CT. Same is true with SSRM's and all weapons that use splash damage. Therefore due to a broken mechanic the raven is offensively stronger than intended.

Second the shooting the beak idea and spreading over three torso's is valid but only part of the story. Again due to how splash damage is broken the raven and some other mechs DO NOT recieve damage as intended. Using the same SRM test using a 2 this time for better control it was discovered that shooting the raven in the beak face on was only doing on avg. about .6 damage per missle not the 2.5 intended. Theories as to why this is happening abound however it seems to affect other mechs with the same pointed snout to the same or a lesser degree. My theory is the splash is going outward in a liner circle not in a sphere and therefore since it touches no other components when u hit the snout the damage get's wasted. Now we have an unintended defensive advantage as again most missle and ballistic weapons use splash damage in their hit profiles.

Finally u give the mech ECM making basically an invisibility shield that prevents the use of most guided missle weapons against it unless certain specifice criteria are met and yes the mech is OP as hell. People are quick to point the finger at ECM because it seems to be the most obvious problem and annoying at times. However it's only these three items together that create a perfect storm so to speak.

When the pull splash damage it should do a good bit to balance out the mech again on the other hand SRM's will probably also become less en vogue, but that's how it goes. After that is done then the dev's can truely look at the mech and ECM and see if and by how much either one is really imbalanced.

Before someone mentions it they discovered the problem after the last patch thru independent player testing. They only confirmed the problem exists in house over the weekend it was two soon to patch time to do it this go around is the reasoning they seem to be giving and they want more time to ensure the feature comes out completely and properly with no unintended ill effects.

Hope this helps with some questions and adds some info to the discussion.

The thread is SSRM's doing more damage than intended. It is in the patch forum and is pinned. There is a second thread not yet pinned that confirms the problem thru SRM's similarly labeled. It was important because it showed the entire splash damage mechanic was the issue not one weapon type. Enjoy

*Think I'm wrong about ballastics using splash damage with the possible exception of the LB-X please ignore that part of the post.

Edited by Jack Lowe, 18 March 2013 - 06:51 AM.

[Mawai]

Bump ...

Two patches since this topic was originally posted - thought I would bump it so that the community moderators could tell that it is still an issue ...

... despite the changes to SSRM splash damage ... the advantage offered by ECM on top of its other capabilities still makes the Raven-3L outperform all other light mechs

... it still is not balanced

[DEMAX51]

Yup - I feel like it's actually been made worse post missile hotfix, because now streaks hit the CT pretty much exclusively.

[Mypa333]

DEMAX51, on 04 April 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

Yup - I feel like it's actually been made worse post missile hotfix, because now streaks hit the CT pretty much exclusively.

Streaks hit CT exclusively on other Lights.

[EvangelionUnit]

Mypa333, on 04 April 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

Streaks hit CT exclusively on other Lights.

not just on lights, and here is the problem
wasn't this fixed a few patches befor so that missiles didn't hit the CT only ??? where is this fix now ? did someone miss it in one of the hotfixes ???! srysly

but well since i'm not playing befor the next 'patch' ... (was an hard evening with just animes ...)

[Roaxis Stalomainis]

well, seeing how I use the Raven 3L as my brawling mech for now... I'll say that it's really not OP aside from the ECM, it was designed to be a Recon Mech with ECM and BAP in unison. My loadout is 2 Med. Lasers and 2x SSRM with ECM. I've had players of all kinds scream that the Raven is OP, however, I noticed that they failed to notice what really happened. This is a true story to boot.

My allies from TRiAD and I were hot dropping on maps and having a blast with others until it was down to the wire in a match. We had divided into 3 lances, one main pushing lance, a 2nd line of fire lance, and a light recon lance. We caught a light mech moving in to start caputring, so we set chase in our Ravens and attacked the lonely commando, finishing him off with the emerald green beams from our arms. As I turn around I hear the loud Twang/Thud of a slug hitting my mech, bringing my armor from yellow to orange on the left torso. I quickly spun around and took a hit on the other arm before reaching cover. Low and behold a Dragon and an Atlas were making their way over. My teammate and I branch off, I started taking the blunt of the blow by taking several AC2 rounds from the dragon as I set him up for the flank. As my teammate got a clean shot on his back I got my lockon and hit the same area, shredding away his armor and hitting his internals. As the dragon began tracking my teammate he got caught in some crossfire and took massive damage to the left torso and arm, allowing me to get one more shot in on his back and critting his engine with an alpha. As I turned around from that my teammate was already working the atlas, who managed to cripple him with a shot from the gauss rifle in his torso. He turned his sights on me as I closed in and strafed him, taking some major hits from his lasers. At this point his armor was Orange and Yellow all over except for the head, so I proceeded to take him out from the back, successfully focusing my damage on his left back and center torso while trying to keep him from turning on me. He managed to clip the front end of my raven, opening a hole in the armor and leaving my XL engine exposed for the finishing blow. I alpha striked his rear torso again three times, dealing the finishing blow as he began yelling about how cheap and dishonorable the Raven 3L was, seeing that I had gotten 2 kills thanks to the hard work of my teammate who softened them up for me.

My question is why are the players lacking so much sportsmanship, it's like the moral integrity of the current generation of youth has lost all nearly all sense of moral integrity... (can't confirm it's youth, but it doesn't help that they were yelling yollo and swag in mid match)

Edit: I forgot to mention that I do support that ECM needs to be nerf'd, while it's wonderful it's the ONLY overpowered part on the Raven 3L and should be modified hopefully within the next two patches. Elaborate on how you would like to see it nerf'd.

Edited by Roaxis Stalomainis, 04 April 2013 - 02:52 PM.

[Cest7]

1v1 Light vs 3L,
3L wins 99% of the time.

[Roaxis Stalomainis]

Cest7, on 04 April 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

1v1 Light vs 3L,
3L wins 99% of the time.

Show me the stats on that, because the Jenner can easily kill the Raven 3L in a 1v1 match. I've piloted all lights but the spider in this game, only advantage the 3L really has is Speed and Strong ECM + Role Bonus (which all light mechs get). I can remember the same exact thing happening with the Jenner in CB. :/

[Mypa333]

Roaxis Stalomainis, on 04 April 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

well, seeing how I use the Raven 3L as my brawling mech for now... I'll say that it's really not OP aside from the ECM, it was designed to be a Recon Mech with ECM and BAP in unison. My loadout is 2 Med. Lasers and 2x SSRM with ECM. I've had players of all kinds scream that the Raven is OP, however, I noticed that they failed to notice what really happened. This is a true story to boot.

My allies from TRiAD and I were hot dropping on maps and having a blast with others until it was down to the wire in a match. We had divided into 3 lances, one main pushing lance, a 2nd line of fire lance, and a light recon lance. We caught a light mech moving in to start caputring, so we set chase in our Ravens and attacked the lonely commando, finishing him off with the emerald green beams from our arms. As I turn around I hear the loud Twang/Thud of a slug hitting my mech, bringing my armor from yellow to orange on the left torso. I quickly spun around and took a hit on the other arm before reaching cover. Low and behold a Dragon and an Atlas were making their way over. My teammate and I branch off, I started taking the blunt of the blow by taking several AC2 rounds from the dragon as I set him up for the flank. As my teammate got a clean shot on his back I got my lockon and hit the same area, shredding away his armor and hitting his internals. As the dragon began tracking my teammate he got caught in some crossfire and took massive damage to the left torso and arm, allowing me to get one more shot in on his back and critting his engine with an alpha. As I turned around from that my teammate was already working the atlas, who managed to cripple him with a shot from the gauss rifle in his torso. He turned his sights on me as I closed in and strafed him, taking some major hits from his lasers. At this point his armor was Orange and Yellow all over except for the head, so I proceeded to take him out from the back, successfully focusing my damage on his left back and center torso while trying to keep him from turning on me. He managed to clip the front end of my raven, opening a hole in the armor and leaving my XL engine exposed for the finishing blow. I alpha striked his rear torso again three times, dealing the finishing blow as he began yelling about how cheap and dishonorable the Raven 3L was, seeing that I had gotten 2 kills thanks to the hard work of my teammate who softened them up for me.

My question is why are the players lacking so much sportsmanship, it's like the moral integrity of the current generation of youth has lost all nearly all sense of moral integrity... (can't confirm it's youth, but it doesn't help that they were yelling yollo and swag in mid match)

Edit: I forgot to mention that I do support that ECM needs to be nerf'd, while it's wonderful it's the ONLY overpowered part on the Raven 3L and should be modified hopefully within the next two patches. Elaborate on how you would like to see it nerf'd.

So...your story comes to this..you got in a brawl with an ATLAS, the biggest, baddest mech in MWO(only considering the firepower and tonnage) and you won ? Wow, good way to build a case: a light taking on an assault mech and winning. You also say that this was a team effort using the exact expression "OUR RAVENS". What is better that one Raven 3L? More Ravens 3L.

And also, you complain about taking a lucky shot from a gauss? Really? How about all the lucky, skilled shots from your streaks??? Why don't you play with SRMS ? Too difficult to aim, right?

I really don't believe people that say their main weapon on the Raven 3L is the ML. I simply can't believe something that is completely fake!

Get some skills. I'm sick of SSRMS and I don't have them on any of my mechs anymore. I feel like CHEATING when using them.

*Forgot to add my signature

_______________
DAMN RAVENS 3L .

Edited by Mypa333, 04 April 2013 - 03:07 PM.

[Ens]

Sedant, on 07 March 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

The Raven is simply a heavier platform then the other lights so it has better hard points and can fit more equipment on it. I wouldn't call that imbalanced.

well, it´s just not the "electronic warfare platform" it should be.... it´s a main agressor and thats just dumb :|

[Mypa333]

Ens, on 04 April 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

well, it´s just not the "electronic warfare platform" it should be.... it´s a main agressor and thats just dumb :|

The problem doesn't come from ECM, the problem comes from Streaks. I've read most of the topics about Lights, ECMs and Streaks. They all come down to one mech that f***s the game for everyone : The Raven 3L.

It's the mech designed for lazy people that want easy kills and damage, no skill required. Can't you see this game is more than kills ?!?!?!

___________________________________
DAMN RAVENS 3L

[ShinVector]

I find this thread absolutely pointless.
Once collisions is back like in closed beta. ALL lights are nerfed across the board.
I want to see who dares pilot a light then. I will I since, I had already played the game in lights with collisions + all the other bugs.


Someone mentioned brawling with Atlas with Ravens ?
Lol.. At this point of time as long as there is no collosion, a light can brawl with any Assault depending on their loadout.
Generally brawling an assault with Streaks is a bad idea. I guess the raven shut that down if he has ecm.

I believe many light pilot revel in the 1v1 lgiht vs assault challenge.
My most memorable battle so, far was Stalker (LRMs + medium lasers) vs Spider K (Me with 1 large pulse laser.)
Heck it took me 3-4mins burn through his back armour to core him out.

Edited by ShinVector, 04 April 2013 - 05:44 PM.

[Roaxis Stalomainis]

Mypa333, on 04 April 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

The problem doesn't come from ECM, the problem comes from Streaks. I've read most of the topics about Lights, ECMs and Streaks. They all come down to one mech that f***s the game for everyone : The Raven 3L.

It's the mech designed for lazy people that want easy kills and damage, no skill required. Can't you see this game is more than kills ?!?!?!

___________________________________
DAMN RAVENS 3L

REALLY?! You say this after they nerf'd SSRM's twice in both damage and tracking? Wow, get real, they need to limit the engines, not nerf the weapons. I'm sure if they moved slower, about 138km/h you wouldn't be complaining.

[Roaxis Stalomainis]

Also, it's not often I get to core anything over medium in my Raven, most of my large mech kills have been with assist from a raven build that tear away at assault mechs armor, which is hard to do with a XL245 installed in your mech, so that's why my teammate was slower than me. My Raven is designed for Anti-Light, me getting the kills was pure luck, I'm typically around our assault mechs providing ECM cover or flanking so they can get good shots when the enemy turns on me. If you look at my K/D rate I have a 0.74 K/D, most of my deaths being in the Raven 3L because of assault and heavy mechs. So your arguement is somewhat invalid from my view point and experience. Yes, I know it's a poor K/D rate, but considering I've opt'd up to do more than the other light scouts and tackle those guys as a distraction so my team could get a good shot I would say it's for a good cause. Sure, I could go without the repair bill, but what's a match without a few scratches? Most players are just disturbed that the Raven can pull this off, but the Jenner is much more of a threat, being able to move as fast as the Raven 3L and carry 4x Med. Lasers and SSRM's. Before the Raven came to be a popular mech the Jenner got the exact same treatment in Closed Beta and look at what happened to lasers. :/

[Magicbullet141]

a jenner outfitted with lots of lasers can gun down ravens all day long