128 replies to this topic

[Roaxis Stalomainis]

Exactly, I don't know why they don't just counter the ravens like that! If a team dropped with both a Raven and Jenner they would have a fearsome recon combo.

[DemonRaziel]

Roaxis Stalomainis, on 04 April 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

Exactly, I don't know why they don't just counter the ravens like that! If a team dropped with both a Raven and Jenner they would have a fearsome recon combo.

That is not a counter, that is a 'Mech... that might have a fighting chance against the 3L. But while the Jenner has to actually aim with all his lasers (that generate heat much quicker, btw), the Raven probably auto-hits with 4 missiles every 3.5 seconds.

Besides there are PUG games, which is (I believe, no official date here) the majority of games. There you can hardly choose what 'Mechs you drop with.

Though it should be said, that I do not agree with the anti-3L crusade, it is arguably the best outfitted light 'Mech. And the current state of SSRMs only makes the gap larger. I guess that is the major gripe most people have with the 3L.

[blinkin]

DemonRaziel, on 05 April 2013 - 01:56 AM, said:

Though it should be said, that I do not agree with the anti-3L crusade, it is arguably the best outfitted light 'Mech. And the current state of SSRMs only makes the gap larger. I guess that is the major gripe most people have with the 3L.

the 3L is the scapegoat for all of the problems associated with light mechs, streaks, and ECM. it is OP because all of the bugs, exploits, and imbalances have coalesced into this one variant.

if we fix the real problems then the 3L will be brought back in line with the rest of the light mechs. trying to fix the 3L directly is like trying to dry your cloths while you are standing out in the middle of a rainstorm.

[Target Rich]

Yet another SERIOUS balance issue....here we have lights ruling city maps.....ecm plus streaks plus limited turn radius equals SURE KILL on assaults...

Totally completely OPPOSITE of Battletech...and mickey mouse bad play balance...

Hell...your's truely is dumping his missile Awesome...and leaving assault mechs entirely...now we have a twitchy twitchy light mech game and long range erppc and gauss rifle matches with absolutely no LRM's whatsoever...

Neutered Battletech....

Needs some SERIOUS developer attention....

When streak/ecm ravens/commandoes rule city maps...we have a SERIOUS problem here Houston...

[Mypa333]

Target Rich, on 05 April 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

Yet another SERIOUS balance issue....here we have lights ruling city maps.....ecm plus streaks plus limited turn radius equals SURE KILL on assaults...

Totally completely OPPOSITE of Battletech...and mickey mouse bad play balance...

Hell...your's truely is dumping his missile Awesome...and leaving assault mechs entirely...now we have a twitchy twitchy light mech game and long range erppc and gauss rifle matches with absolutely no LRM's whatsoever...

Neutered Battletech....

Needs some SERIOUS developer attention....

When streak/ecm ravens/commandoes rule city maps...we have a SERIOUS problem here Houston...

The Ravens 3L are the ones that need some attention. Commandos 2D are well balanced because in order to have one lousy laser and 3 streaks they have to decrease the engine size and the armor on different components. They are really fragile.


But with the Ravens 3L, it's another story, being able to run at high speed, with big engines, enough HS or DHS and with 2 lasers slots extra and still have a lot of armor.

Edited by Mypa333, 05 April 2013 - 07:33 AM.

[Target Rich]

Sorry grasshopper...the concept of allowing ecm/streaks on these two mechs combined with the slow turning radius and the inability to equip ANY countermeasures for those streaks....equals light mech swarms taking out all non atlas assaults at will...they simply play the slow turn radius and pump their streaks and medium lasers intothe assault back....

The assault is helpless....and that is NOT battletech...and has never been seen in MW play for twenty years or so...

Frankly...like I said...I love to play the lrm missile boats...and I have played streak boats before...because of the graphic engine not working with my laptop.

My game is now vanished....My missile boat does no significant damage to these lights...NOT EVEN KNOCKDOWN WITH a 4 LRM 15 direct hit...nor any damage whatsoever....Totally screwed up ....

So since the dev's have other visions...yours truely is grinding to earn that raven super mech...

Sad...but that's reality with MWO...

[Target Rich]

Since I am on this thread...one more question...what is the mickey mouse with the LRM missile locks...even with BAP I am seeing missile locks last for about 5 to 10 seconds at best....

Never seen this in 20 years also...

I know this is a different game...but I kind of expecting something to carry over from 20 years of Mecha game play here.....

[Demoned]

can't beat them join them, i just did lol
and as a vet jenner driver why shouldn't i

but i agree with a fair few, its not the 3L as such but the ECM,
without it, its loadout would be sub par compared, to say a jenner D

[Mypa333]

Demoned, on 05 April 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

can't beat them join them, i just did lol
and as a vet jenner driver why shouldn't i

but i agree with a fair few, its not the 3L as such but the ECM,
without it, its loadout would be sub par compared, to say a jenner D

The jenner D was the best light mech before ECM. Now, it's an ok machine, at least it can kill spiders and commandos.

[Demoned]

Mypa333, on 05 April 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

The jenner D was the best light mech before ECM. Now, it's an ok machine, at least it can kill spiders and commandos.

i use the D to hunt down most lone mechs and, kill them.
it takes skill to take down a 3L with the 2x srm4s, but damn you get some nods from the enemy
when you play it well, (jenner D that is)
while the 3L just gets raged at lol

[Mypa333]

Demoned, on 05 April 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

i use the D to hunt down most lone mechs and, kill them.
it takes skill to take down a 3L with the 2x srm4s, but damn you get some nods from the enemy
when you play it well, (jenner D that is)
while the 3L just gets raged at lol

I have much respect for skilled people playing SRMs instead of SSRMs.

[DemonRaziel]

Demoned, on 05 April 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

can't beat them join them, i just did lol
and as a vet jenner driver why shouldn't i

Because that only spawns more OP 3Ls with the cheesy SSRMs loadout. Unless you joint them by taking a 3L, but equipped it with the standard SRMs, which is a good thing as it helps to promote an alternate and much more widely accepted loadout for the 3L...

[Roaxis Stalomainis]

Demoned, on 05 April 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

can't beat them join them, i just did lol
and as a vet jenner driver why shouldn't i

but i agree with a fair few, its not the 3L as such but the ECM,
without it, its loadout would be sub par compared, to say a jenner D

Thank you! I really think that PGI needs to sit down at the table and say "how bad did we nerf the various weapons?" so that they can then dish out a whole new update that has improved damage ratings and maybe some critical bug fixes so that we can get the netcode just a little bit more stable. The Jenner was fearsome before the Lasers got nerfed shortly after LRM's got hit. Then LRM's got a big boost from the upgrades and everyone began screaming that LRM's are too powerful. As it stands to me now, the weapons are far too imbalanced as it is and cannot properly perform their intended purpose.

Also, the 3L that I run has a lot more room for upgrading and tweaking if I dish out the money for another XL engine. The heaviest engine, weighing 11 tons, is currently installed in mine, with speed tweak I don't need it anymore and can make it lighter, allowing for BAP and another med laser. Consider yourselves lucky that I don't run true OP builds to give others a fighting chance, for you shall never see me fire a third laser... However, my 14 Double Heat Sinks may not save you.

---Edit---
They should also take mech mastery levels and upgrades into consideration for match making, that would keep the overpowered missile boats from coming into frequent contact with newbies. Just an additional thought, but we still need to ease them into the fray so they don't get curbstomped in the next tier... maybe we should begin implementing "Ranks" into the game so that we can spend GXP on Trainee, Green, Regular, Veteran, Elite, and Assassin level titles that not only show in the fourms, but allow for a balanced mix of players in a match based on what rank they have obtianed specifically (that is until an Assassin drops with a Trainee, then grouped balancing should be taken into account by some type of point system in match making).

Edited by Roaxis Stalomainis, 05 April 2013 - 05:22 PM.

[ConstableKevin]

Raven 3L is primarily considered the only decent raven lightmec right now. I don't feel raven is op nor should it be nerfed, I personally feel other lichmechs are weaker and need buffed.

Pros:
ECM
Fast/Scouting


Cons:
Can get killed easily if hit (one shot)
Legs are susceptible (once dead, you are dead)
Poor damage in general
Poor sustained damage due to moving 24.7 or else be killed


ECM is a supporty class option, a raven can scout and use it to to counter other support classes.

Your suggestions to remove ECM are silly, that is like telling a healer in world of warcraft/BF3 and other games to stop healing and supporting the team, if you want to consider premade games and battles then ask your friends to play a support type mech.

By removing ECM you are just dumming the game down and destroying a niche role that all teams should have.

Good Raven pilots should be difficult to kill, they are a support class and not meant to do primary damage for the team (infact there damage is quite low to begin with, and due to having to move around alot their sustained damage is low.

Edited by ConstableKevin, 07 April 2013 - 12:09 PM.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

$tfu already!

Edited by Funkadelic Mayhem, 07 April 2013 - 11:45 AM.

[DemonRaziel]

ConstableKevin, on 07 April 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Raven 3L is primarily considered the only decent raven lightmec right now. I don't feel raven is op nor should it be nerfed, I personally feel other lichmechs are weaker and need buffed.

In my opinion the other light 'Mechs are exactly where they should be - when you look at the 2D and 5D, they offer the same potential in the scouting/utility department (arguably, the Spider even has the added advantage of Jump Jets).

ConstableKevin, on 07 April 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Pros:
ECM
Fast/Scouting


Cons:
Can get killed easily if hit (one shot)
Legs are susceptible (once dead, you are dead)
Poor damage in general
Poor sustained damage due to moving 24.7 or else be killed

The above listed Cons are, and should be, true for each and every light 'Mech in game, not just the 3L.
And as a matter of fact, both Ravens and Jenners have more armor and more hp compared to the other lights.

Also, because we usually "pim our rides", most Lights out there pack a significant punch for their weight, so the damage complaint is, in my experience, moot.

It happens more often than not, that the 3L ends the game in the top half of the scoreboards - the speed gives it survivability and ability to outrun and flank slower targets and the streaks/ECM combo and better armor than other 'Mechs in its class give it an upper hand in Light vs. Light combat.

In an imaginary MWO food chain, the 3L does not have a natural predator, other than another 3L (where it's a stalemate situation unless a skill difference is present) or a higher number of Lights/medium Light hunters on the other side.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Each class med, heavy and assault has a variant that has more armor then the others. Your point about the 3L is moot.
If you dont like the streek/ecm combo equip more than lockable weapons.
The 3L was easy to kill if you could aim be4 the last 2 patches, its even more easy to kill and you dont need to aim as well now.

Stop calling for nerfs because you cant adapt and overcome.

[DemonRaziel]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 08 April 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

Each class med, heavy and assault has a variant that has more armor then the others. Your point about the 3L is moot.
If you dont like the streek/ecm combo equip more than lockable weapons.
The 3L was easy to kill if you could aim be4 the last 2 patches, its even more easy to kill and you dont need to aim as well now.

Stop calling for nerfs because you cant adapt and overcome.

Read my post and the post I was quoting again, please. Your response to it is out of place. If you were not responding directly to my post, then sorry and feel free to disregard this one.

[blinkin]

DemonRaziel, on 08 April 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

Read my post and the post I was quoting again, please. Your response to it is out of place. If you were not responding directly to my post, then sorry and feel free to disregard this one.

read his signature. he doesn't want to be knocked off his throne by being asked to use some basic aiming skills.

HOW DARE WE DEMAND HE ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE TARGET HE IS FIRING AT!!!!11!!!!11!!!!!!1!!!!!!!111

[RoboPatton]

Well, 5 pages and 4+ "3L's are OP" threads should tell you something...