174 replies to this topic

[CrushLibs]

MischiefSC, on 08 March 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

I have a drastically better idea. Less damage, faster speed, less maneuverability, no missile warning. ECM slows but doesn't block locks. TAG and NARC become information warfare tools (making TAGed or NARCed mechs show up different in all allied huds for a period of time and increasing missile hit percentage and location) and suddenly....

TAG should last 5 seconds. NARC should last 30 seconds. ECM shouldn't work as team stealth shield but block TAG, NARC, BAP which should be buffed to be useful. It should slow missile locks and break up the tight cluster of Artemis and make SSRMs dumbfire. Maybe have some spendy modules and pilot unlocks for ECM that hide paperdolls.... how about even have it scatter accuracy of artillery/airstrike targeting within its radius?

ECM/missile balance is broken.

Please fix it. Please.

WELL SAID

[jackal40]

Frankly, LRMs are ruining the game for me.

1-They are too accurate
2-They can make rediculous turns around buildings and terrain.
3-The damage is way out of porportion for the amount of fire

You can say what you want about canon, LRMs need to be balanced against the other weapons in game. Right now they are not. I've quit playing more nights because of LRM spam than any other issue.

[Obnoxious1]

LRM's are not OP.
If anything, they are a little under powered to some degree. At this current time, we have missiles that could go 100's of miles & knock the nads off a flea with the targeting systems they carry. In game we are 1000+ years into the future, anyone with common sense would acknowledge that they have improved on the guidance systems to make them more effective, the rate of missiles not hitting target should be far less than 10%.
Now I will agree that the tracking is a little off. A missile ( even in the future) should not be able to make a 90 degree turn on a dime to hit a target.
Another thing I notice a lot, when using my missile boat, most of the targets I find ( when they are not cloaked by an ECM ) & fire at, do not have AMS. It's 1.5 tons for protection.. Consider using it, it is effective. When playing in a group with my squad, EVERYONE has AMS & stays in groups. Missiles come in, combined AMS shoots them down, end of problem. A mere 2% might get through & do minor damage that gets shrugged off & we send a Raven out to kill the boat. Also, when missiles are targeting you, at the top of your HUD is big red letters & Ms.Betty telling you there are missiles coming at you. DON'T JUST STAND THERE LIKE A BONEHEAD.. MOVE!! If someone was throwing a rock at your head would you just stand there & let it hit you??
But I do see a few issues that I could agree with that do make the LRM's a tad of a nightmare for the rest of the pilots that use common sense, so I have a few suggestions I have to make the LRM's a little more balanced in game..

1. Decrease the percentage of missiles missing the target. Should be no more than 5% missing it's mark
2. Increase the reload time per salvo.
3. Increase the heat generated from firing a salvo
4. Give missiles more of a "javelin" type flight path
5. Seeing Ultra AC5's can jam, why not have a random missile pod jam that takes 5 seconds to clear?
6. Make it to were the flight path can not deviate more than 75 degrees over a 1000 meter path

I think that would help balance things to be more "fair"

Anyway, my 2 cents..

[Bloody Moon]

Gotta admit i find it hilarious that people defend a weapon with zero skill-dependence so much.

The whole implementation of lock-on missiles is questionable and should be reworked completely.

[Jakob Knight]

TheFlyingScotsman, on 06 March 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

WHAT I FEEL THE PROBLEM IS
LRMs are currently able to lock, track and land regardless of LOS if an ally is there to target your LRM target for you.

Everyone is free to feel whatever they want. That's your free will. However, what you think is a problem is, in fact, a core ability of LRMs, and has always been so from TT all the way through the various MW incarnations (some of which didn't even require a spotter for this). Indeed, indirect fire is a primary reason LRMs exist. To say that this is a problem that needs to be removed is the same as saying autocannons should not have reloads...the weapon is designed to do this, even if someone thinks it is bad for the game.

If anything, the requirement for the firing unit to maintain lock throughout the missile flight time and the ability of ECM to completely lock out LRMs are incorrect problems that should be corrected, as neither one was ever part of the system.

Bloody Moon, on 08 March 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

Gotta admit i find it hilarious that people defend a weapon with zero skill-dependence so much.

The whole implementation of lock-on missiles is questionable and should be reworked completely.

Yeah. It's hard to understand how people think pulling the trigger when something happens to be in front of you takes skill. But, we keep trying to educate the direct-fire FPS Counterstrike crowd. Just have to keep plugging away.

[Suki]

IrrelevantFish, on 07 March 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

I'll agree that removing indirect fire is a terrible idea. That's kind of the whole point of LRM's in the first place.

However, I'd still like to see their damage reduced significantly (~1.4dmg/missile seems a reasonable figure to me). People talk about "playing smart," but it doesn't work like that. If you're out-boated, this is what happens:

• Any lights sent to harass boats are almost guaranteed to die, as they'll be completely unsupported and facing off against most of the enemy team, leaving you not only outnumbered but extremely vulnerable to being capped and poorly equipped to deal with enemy lights playing spotter.
  
• So long as boats are operating, you can't leave cover, severely curtailing your maneuverability and leaving you vulnerable to being focused down by enemy non-boats when you have to pass through choke points, such as cave mouths.
  
• Once you are close, even if you've managed to get this far with pristine armor, you still have to get within that minimum range, and since a single salvo from two or three boats can take out a fresh assault, your team will still take losses making it those last few meters.
  
• If the enemy is smart, the boats will be set up such that they can provide fire support for each other. While you're taking out one boat, the others will be raining on you. That means even more losses.
  
• While you're focusing down the boats, the enemy team's non-boats can shoot you in the back.

The only times I've seen missile-boating successfully defeated, it's been because the boats were stupid or at least 50% of the opposite team consisted of one or both of the most irritating mechs in the game: the RVN-3L or the 6xPPC Stalker.

Rename LRMs to Snipers and there'll be double danger.

[Suki]

IrrelevantFish, on 07 March 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

Rule of Cool, dude. Real life is boring.

After all, in real life, mechs would sink up to their knees in dirt and be annihilated by missiles with shaped-charge warheads fired from twenty miles away ... assuming, that is, that all the spacecraft in orbit ran out of stuff to drop on them.

Seriously, dude, regardless of their realism, LRMs aren't fun right now, and that's what matters.

Seriuosly, dude, Snipers aren't fun for me also and that's what matters ONLY for me, NOT for OTHER players.
You're in the open - You're dead in 5-7 seconds even before any missile can reach You.

[Suki]

MaddMaxx, on 08 March 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

I have no idea what has caused their renewed potency, but LRM's are back with a vengeance and there has only ever been one reason they were used. They will Kill stuff quick. When they didn't do that you never saw them. Only the Forums whines about how UP they were at that time.

The correlation is crystal clear.

The idea is rahter simple - the more posot you make about LRMs being OP - more people will use it. we all seen it before:
more qq about streak cats - more streak cats on the battle field.
more qq about splat cats - more aplat cats on the battlefield.
more qq about LRMs - the same.

It happens in every MMO, when new players are looking what's OP and try to use it straight away.
By opening more qq hreads about LRM all the LRM haters are doing worse only to themself.

[DaPwnageMachine]

Hills > LRMs

Buildings > LRMs
Teamwork > LRMs

[Suki]

Bloody Moon, on 08 March 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

Gotta admit i find it hilarious that people defend a weapon with zero skill-dependence so much.

The whole implementation of lock-on missiles is questionable and should be reworked completely.

Yep, getting close to the enemy mech and alfastriking it's huge *** take so much skill, even my 5 yo niece is capable to do.

[Tesunie]

If have to say that the OP hasn't seen the hit rate on LRMs. Let me give a few points why this idea would be bad:
LRMs travel slowly. They don't always hit, and often times a smart pilot (or an stupid LRM user) will make the missiles hit terrain, or if they are really good, an enemy.
LRMs are locked at 1000m, no more. A lot of weapons out range this.
Most people don't know how to spot, or keep a lock on one foe. People either don't lock at all, or spam the R key and never settle on one target. Or they can't keep a steady lock on the one target they do have.
Unlike SSRMs, LRMs require you to maintain a lock on the target the whole time, otherwise your missiles stop tracking.

If your suggestion was implemented, this is what is most likely to happen:
LRMs vs Snipers
Each require line of sight now. LRMs shoot their missiles after getting a lock. Sniper shoots at LRMs. sniper causes damage while LRMs are still waiting for their missiles to hit.
Sniper ducks behind hill, taking no damage from LRMs.
Sniper stands back up over hill and continues shooting.
LRMs gets lock and shoots, still taking sniper fire.
Rinse and repeat till sniper has maybe some scratched paint and LRMs are a smoking crater.


As it is, I'm feeling that LRMs might need to go just a little faster, but then again they make a great midrange weapon or long range support/suppression weapon.

Edited by Tesunie, 08 March 2013 - 08:41 AM.

[Fut]

Jakob Knight, on 08 March 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

Yeah. It's hard to understand how people think pulling the trigger when something happens to be in front of you takes skill. But, we keep trying to educate the direct-fire FPS Counterstrike crowd. Just have to keep plugging away.

This actually made me laugh. Nicely said.

It's interesting that people seem to think that hovering your mouse over a target and clicking a button is any harder/requires more skill than hovering your mouse over a target, clicking a button, and keeping your mouse over the target during the entire flight-time.

Both take skill, they're just different skills.

Suki, on 08 March 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

Seriuosly, dude, Snipers aren't fun for me also and that's what matters ONLY for me, NOT for OTHER players.
You're in the open - You're dead in 5-7 seconds even before any missile can reach You.

Same here. I dread going up against snipers much more than LRM boats. At least with the LRM boats I get a nice multi-sensory warning and enough time to try and avoid the damage. With Snipers you know about it when you feel the impact on your 'Mech.

It baffles me that people think otherwise, but to each their own I suppose.

DaPwnageMachine, on 08 March 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

Hills > LRMs

Buildings > LRMs
Teamwork > LRMs

You forgot a couple of things

ECM > LRMs
AMS > LRMs

The fact remains that there are multiple ways to avoid LRMs, or decrease the amount of damage you're going to take from them - and there's only 1 way to do this for any other weapons in the game.

[Volthorne]

IrrelevantFish, on 07 March 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

Rule of Cool, dude. Real life is boring.

After all, in real life, mechs would sink up to their knees in dirt and be annihilated by missiles with shaped-charge warheads fired from twenty miles away ... assuming, that is, that all the spacecraft in orbit ran out of stuff to drop on them.

Seriously, dude, regardless of their realism, LRMs aren't fun right now, and that's what matters.

And this was a relevant response to my post, how? I was comparing two very similar weapons, and pointing out how asking for a damage nerf is completely bat-sh** crazy.

I'll grant you that they're not the most fun (on either end. Do you think I like losing my lock every three seconds to ECM?).

[Fut]

Volthorne, on 08 March 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

I'll grant you that they're not the most fun (on either end. Do you think I like losing my lock every three seconds to ECM?).

Never leave home without TAG.

[CrushLibs]

most people who are bitching so hard don't understand LRMs usage.

They keep people behind cover and kill noobs who can't.

If you get a lock and point and shoot you will loose lock 90% of the time. I do well with LRMs and only have a 35% hit ratio and I use tag + BAP + Adv sensor range + Adv target decay.

LRMs are OP when you stand still or out in the open. Send a ECM raven over and jam him while we close distance and mop up his team.