87 replies to this topic

[Rayah]

semalferuzA, on 06 March 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

Shouldn't it be less than 20 damage, not more?

Now that you say it again... wtf...

EDIT: My AC/20 stat has this as well... 20.26 damage per hit...

Psikez, on 06 March 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

I'd place my guess it calculates ammo explosion damage for the gun that set it off

Could be...

Edited by Rayzor, 06 March 2013 - 04:05 PM.

[semalferuzA]

Rayzor, on 06 March 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

Now that you say it again... wtf...

Maybe it's counting crit damage as well.

If it was counting ammo explosions the numbers would be hugely off. Ammo explosions frequently do 100+ damage.

Edited by semalferuzA, 06 March 2013 - 04:07 PM.

[Rayah]

semalferuzA, on 06 March 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

Maybe it's counting crit damage as well.

If it was counting ammo explosions the numbers would be hugely off. Ammo explosions frequently do 100+ damage.

True, I'm going to assume this is the case until further notice.

[Bren McGuire the 2nd]

Teralitha, on 06 March 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

Very interesting I decided to to do some number crunching on my stats... only on the weapons that shouldnt have varied damage numbers.... AC20 - 19.1 damage per shot( a bit strange considering this is an all or nothing weapon... shouldnt it be 20 damage per shot? LRM20 - 1.33333 damage per missle hit(I thought it was spose to be 1.7? Odd considering this is an artemis LRM20) Guass Rifle - 16 damage per hit(I thought it was 15?) LRM15 - 1.77 damage per missle.... wow the LRM15 is way better than LRM20, time to dump LRM20's.... ERPPC - 9.86 damage per hit. Hmmm similar to the AC20... a little less than it should.

AC20 will kill mechs without doing all 20 points of damage.
Gauss; 15 points is right in the zone where you might not get an outright kill with a direct hit on a section but might get some critical hits that will wipe out that section and possibly the mech (almost all trial mechs don't have C.A.S.E. ) hence increased damage.

I can't explain the LRM difference with logic. It has to be a playstyle thing.

[Sifright]

semalferuzA, on 06 March 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

Maybe it's counting crit damage as well.

If it was counting ammo explosions the numbers would be hugely off. Ammo explosions frequently do 100+ damage.

how much are you shooting at mechs beyond your effective range?

a rare ammo explosion amortized over tens to hundreds of beyond range shots would certainly drop the amount that it looks like you doing more than normal.

Also if you are exploding machine gun ammo or nearly empty ammo packs you wouldn't see huge spikes either.

[Grizley]

I think the greater than expected damage for fixed damage weapons is likely from shots that penetrate armor and get the random crit damage on the internals. It shouldn't have a huge impact, since the ratio of armor to internal is something like 4 to 1 in MWO and it's only a chance in the case where it does breach armor.

Ammo explosions is another thought, yeah it can add 100 damage or more, but if you set off one ammo explosion a night with a weapon you did 2-4k damage with that will end up being fairly insignificant statistically speaking. Rather more significant for the mech that suffered the ammo explosion.

[Teralitha]

MustrumRidcully, on 06 March 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:

Range may be a factor here. If you fire at a target beyond 270, you will do less than full damage, but you keep doing damage up to a range of triple that.


That is more interesting indeed. It should be 15 per hit. Somehow, you deal more damage than you should. Maybe weird stuff happens when the Gauss projectile hitbox covers more than one enemy hit box?



It could very well be that the factors of range and weird hit box behavior could raise and lower the average damage per hit, diverging from the expected damage.

Yes of course, I forgot about range damage reduction.

[Skyscream Sapphire]

Grizley, on 06 March 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

For lasers your accuracy stat is really your damage/shot stat.

This isn't even true. I've been playing the last couple of days in a Trebuchet whose longest range weapon is a medium laser. I shoot these past their 270 range all the time. With 5 of them, it still does mean damage at 400 meters and can even pop a mech with damaged internals at 500m. The Treb actually excels at this, using its speed and jump jets to get the angle to finish off the guy that retreated behind his teammates, but is still sniping/LRMing us. In other words, these long range reduced damage shots can be just as valuable as the full damage bursts (and happen to require even greater accuracy).

Unfortunately because of the combination of hit scan and range based damage reduction, there is no great way to measure laser accuracy. Though we can probably all agree that if you are doing 1 damage per hit, you are either badly missing or consistently engaging at the wrong range.

[Joseph Mallan]

WEAPON STATISTICS

Weapon Matches Fired Hit Accuracy Time Equip. Damage
MEDIUM LASER 3 127 115 90.55% 00:15:59 286
ER PPC 15 288 149 51.74% 01:13:19 1,488
GAUSS RIFLE 14 243 127 52.26% 01:05:05 2,022
LRM 15 1 1,050 183 17.43% 00:04:23 270
SRM 6 14 2,872 1,223 42.58% 01:08:48 2,689
STREAK SRM 2 2 86 62 72.09% 00:11:36 143[/color]


I'm surprised how good a shot I am with medium lasers!

And shouldn't SSRMs be 100% hit as everyone is saying???

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 March 2013 - 07:23 AM.

[Wintersdark]

MLas at 94% hit rate, 2.9 damage average; LLas at 90% hit rate and 5.8 damage average.

These numbers are pretty much exactly what I'd expect. I generally always hit, but often miss with a tick or two.

Missiles count per missile, not per triggering of the launcher, and this is a good design feature - it better accounts for partial hits (of which LRM volleys nearly always consist).

Between the various LRM launcher types (fortunately for me, I run different sizes on different mechs, so I can easily see my LRM performance per mech) I average roughly 30% hit rate. This is also as was expected, as I don't boat LRM's but use them as a secondary weapon in most cases. In that role, I'll use them for suppression fire, to push people into cover rather than to actually do damage. Add in AMS losses, misses due to cover... Yeah, it works out pretty well.

SSRM hit rate: Mine's 80%. This works as well - if anyone expected 100%, they're deluded. AMS is far less effective vs. SSRM's, but still possible at 200+m. The missiles still can still hit cover, and explode if they hit water too. It's unlikely to hold a 100% hit rate with anything.

SRM6's - 50% hit rate. Lower than expected, but unsurprising as my battles since the patch have been chock full of speedy Cicadas and Ravens.

[Calem]

Looking at my current UAC/5 hits to damage ratio (> 5; 286 damage with 38 hits = 7,53) I can confirm it must count ammo explosions triggered by a weapon towards that weapon’s stats. It should become clear once the statistics sample grows and be most noticeable for ballistics.

Of note, however, is the same ratio for my LRM20s (pair of ‘em on a Stalker 3H):

Weap/Matches/Fired/Hit/Hit%/Time used/Damage:
LRM 20
23
16,140
5,550
34.39%
02:05:10
8,997

Those were 4-man lane only as I pretty much cannot sanely bring more than a token launcher on an Atlas to the 8-man queue ("no SRM6s omg noob").

LRM20 Damage done divided by hits yields 1.62 - and it’s reasonable to assume above 8,997 damage include ammo explosions, too. This means the average real damage of a single impacting LRM missile is closer to 1.4 than to 1.8. Interesting.

LRM damage and current game implementation, to me, “feel right” though independant of accuracy and numbers, and it's on the same level as pre-patch - just prettier now. If anything, I’ve dealt slightly less damage in those 23 post-patch matches, but that might be a side-effect of the state-rewind for lasers (a godsend!), which went in at the same time. With lasers more deadly, there’s just less metal for LRMs to chew on.

[Wintersdark]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 March 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

And shouldn't SSRMs be 100% hit as everyone is saying???

No. As I noted above, there are lots of reasons SSRM's can fail to hit. Impacting cover or water, or running out of range.

Remember, even if you fire them within barely within range, if the enemy mech is running away from you the missiles may run out of range before hitting.

[Joseph Mallan]

Wintersdark, on 07 March 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

No. As I noted above, there are lots of reasons SSRM's can fail to hit. Impacting cover or water, or running out of range.

Remember, even if you fire them within barely within range, if the enemy mech is running away from you the missiles may run out of range before hitting.

Thank you sir, I actually knew this. I was more aiming for those who say SSRMs are 100% accurate. I do appreciate you confirming what I have said a few times too.

[Ilwrath]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 March 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

Weapon Matches Fired Hit Accuracy Time Equip. Damage
MEDIUM LASER 3 127 115 90.55% 00:15:59 286
LRM 15 1 1,050 183 17.43% 00:04:23 270

Nice med las accuracy there but what is up with the LRM?

I probably fire to often with low odds of hitting and still I ended up with this so far:


MEDIUM LASER 83.93%
LRM 15 36.14%

Edit; holy crap how this forum mangles pasted text.

Edited by Ilwrath, 07 March 2013 - 08:35 AM.

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

WTF tag.

[StalaggtIKE]

What, I found interesting was how low LRM accuracy were. For something that people claim to be fire and forget weapon, it sure seems to be a bit forgetful.

Astroniomix, on 07 March 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

WTF tag.

I believe that has to do with the targeting delay.

[Ilwrath]

Astroniomix, on 07 March 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

WTF tag.

Do you run the always tag on modification?

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

Ilwrath, on 07 March 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

Do you run the always tag on modification?

I use a paperweight.

[MustrumRidcully]

Astroniomix, on 07 March 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

WTF tag.

Statistics are funny.
But it seems only to track its existence, not what it does.
Maybe if you keep the TAG fire function pressed, it won't count every new instance of the TAG firing? Or are you possible tagging multiple targets with one TAG? Weird weird...

Interesting to see the Anti-Missile system being listed in the statistic.

[Calem]

I wonder how accuracy / hits are calculated for LRMs: Do they include hits within minrange? If they did, it'd explain the low damage per single LRM some of the quotes yielded.

If they did, it should prob'ly be changed to miss as it's not a hit with an active LRM but a passive missile dummy.

Wonder if anyone tested in a live match.