400 replies to this topic

[liku]

Op >If you fight against inexperienced player maybe..
After 500 games you r gonna change your mind i play lights heavy and assault and until the team is strong i only die to lrms due to my mistakes:
Staying in the open for too long
Being positioned to close to the lrm unig (the worst range ever is 280 320 meters) or not as far.
Letting other tag/targete without having some cover in between (water i. Forest Colony)
Taking the bait of duel lrm contest against a greater boat
Shutting down to break lock...

Lrm are nice affordable weapon, the better the enemy the deadliest it becomes. Against the usual foes i can almost always makes them waste tonS of ammo protecting my team while draining fire on me

[Urdnot Mau]

So many pages.. i looked into the first ones and didn't see any vid, so im gonna post this one i found on youtube


i ran into some lrm today and i can say that most of the time i got damaged pretty hard even against 2 lrm 15 (like loosing my arm and torso in 1 second)

[Jay Kerensky]

Jakob Knight, on 07 March 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

If a person is the target of one LRM volley from a single battlemech, LRMs are balanced. If a person is the target of two LRM salvoes from two different battlemechs, it's suddenly evidence that LRMs are OP and everyone is running nothing but LRM units.



Seriously. The players who never learned to fight beyond FPS will always feel the sky is falling because they can't understand LRMs (and don't want to). LRMs are fine, and that they might actually start being used again after a period where everyone was running ECM units (and a good number still are) is actually a good thing, not a bad. It means people are finally starting to use what was supposed to be a primary weapon in the game.

Remember, LRMs have the most counters of -any- system in the game, and is the only one that can be rendered absolutely useless by simply getting into typical combat ranges. If you expect a weapon system facing so many disadvantages to not pay for itself when it overcomes everything against it, then I'd say you need to reexamine your own standards for what is OP and what isn't.

Well said.

If you can't play with LRMs in a game and you can't use them, maybe it's time for something a little less cerebral.

Edited by Jay Kerensky, 07 March 2013 - 03:12 PM.

[KharnZor]

Urdnot Mau, on 07 March 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

So many pages.. i looked into the first ones and didn't see any vid, so im gonna post this one i found on youtube


i ran into some lrm today and i can say that most of the time i got damaged pretty hard even against 2 lrm 15 (like loosing my arm and torso in 1 second)

Using training grounds mechs is a bad example. They are standing still AND the armor is pretty bad

[shabowie]

Monky, on 07 March 2013 - 02:52 AM, said:

missiles where not affected at all by this patch, only lasers. You're probably seeing the late night stalker LRM 20 boat rush that seems to happen at about 3-4 AM central standard. No idea why, it just does.

Euros logging on. High ping players like lockon weapons for obvious reasons.

[Khobai]

Quote

missiles where not affected at all by this patch, only lasers.

100% incorrect. Artemis spread was tightened significantly. they all hit center torso now.

Quote

Dont want to be killed by them? Then dont present yourself as a target and move around. Mobility is key.

Exactly. Mobility is key. Assault mechs do not have mobility. They've made speed more important than armor and that's the exact opposite of battletech. Light mechs should not be more survivable than Assaults. Because if Assault mechs arn't the most survivable mechs, they don't really have a role in the game...

Edited by Khobai, 07 March 2013 - 03:35 PM.

[MischiefSC]

I started my first LRM boat today.

Trebuchet 7M.
2xLRM15s with Artemis.
300XL
Tag
2MLs
3tons of ammo.

It's vastly more deadly than the brawling version with 2LLs, 1ML, 2xSRM6+Artemis. At a speed of over 100kph I can comfortably keep range. With JJs I can escape Ravens and with 2 MLs I can do enough damage up close or when the missiles run out to stay clear and safe. In a lot of ways it's a better missile boat then a C4 because I can pretty easily keep someone tagged, change position and escape enemy fire. Unless my whole team gets rolled quickly it's more impactful on my teams success than my K2 2xAC20 cat. 30LRMs is enough to crush lights and mediums with shocking speed and teach heavies and assaults to go hide.

Seriously. LRMs/ECM badly skew game balance, especially in pug games. Moderate competency with either LRMs or ECM is far, far more impactful on both your success and your teams success than anything else in the game.

[Mercules]

Noth, on 07 March 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

They won't listen to the fact that PUGs are easy prey to LRMs. They just focus on the fact that they or their premade can make them useless and think that makes it OK.

I avoid LRMs while PUGging and go make their LRM boating mechs useless either by sniping it and getting it to focus on me or by closing with it.

[Flying Fish]

i'm gonna say this right now, lrm boats can have their fun, come the 16th theyll be running for the hills


JAGERMECH WOOOOOOO

[Noth]

Mercules, on 07 March 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

I avoid LRMs while PUGging and go make their LRM boating mechs useless either by sniping it and getting it to focus on me or by closing with it.

That actually doesn't fix it, because unless you are using ECM, they often can and do continue firing at targets as you harrass them.

[Mercules]

Noth, on 07 March 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

That actually doesn't fix it, because unless you are using ECM, they often can and do continue firing at targets as you harrass them.

Only for a brief moment if they don't turn and focus on me. I had a Stalker think he could just continue to fire and I cut through is back side torso and took out half his weapons.

[Major Scumbag]

LRM...Death by coward

[Mercules]

Major Scumbag, on 07 March 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

LRM...Death by coward

More like euthanizing the unaware.

[One Medic Army]

Seriously, to use LRMs effectively either takes multiple people working in tandem, or using them as a mid-range direct-fire weapon with a slow (tracking) projectile that requires a secondary hardpoint for a laser designator.
You can't sit at 900m away and expect to do anything. Even if you have a designated spotter working with you, you're still at the mercy of people smart enough to find cover within the travel time.

ECM does little to stop LRMs even since TAG range was boosted to 750, nothing's changed except people are starting to realize it.

Edited by One Medic Army, 07 March 2013 - 04:11 PM.

[Nth Adonis]

One Medic Army, on 07 March 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

Seriously, to use LRMs effectively either takes multiple people working in tandem, or using them as a mid-range direct-fire weapon with a slow (tracking) projectile that requires a secondary hardpoint for a laser designator.
You can't sit at 900m away and expect to do anything. Even if you have a designated spotter working with you, you're still at the mercy of people smart enough to find cover within the travel time.

ECM does little to stop LRMs even since TAG range was boosted to 750, nothing's changed except people are starting to realize it.

Are you serious??? I can throw on a few LRMs and average 5 kills a match by myself sitting at about 900m all day long. I don't because its not fun. If I wanted a clickfest Id go play Diablo.

Edited by Dixie Normiss, 07 March 2013 - 11:46 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Dixie Normiss, on 07 March 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

Are you serious??? I can throw on a few LRMs and average 5 kills a match by myself sitting at about 900m all day long.

Well, I guess either you have magic cover-avoiding LRMs, or you're up against people who don't understand to get to cover when they hear the incoming missile warning.
If you're firing into the brawl at 900m, I wonder how many of those 5 kills are friendly mechs?

Also, is that for the matches you're not busy fighting off the light/medium mechs out hunting the LRM boats?

[Elkarlo]

I have just had a joyride in my CPLT-C1(f), a Mech i know by heart and with 500+ drops in it in this Configuration.

My Observation: The Damage LRM do in the Training Ground is massivly exagerated,
i can't take down an Atlas with 3 Volley's in a live Combat Situation. I need about 6-7 for that.

Then i was on the same map, and fought Moving Mechs on nearly the same Spots and guess what.
I needed 5-6 Volley for a Pretty baby and i damaged a Atlas only to orange Armor with 3 Shots.

Everything stayed the same, you need to use Tag for good Kills.
The better Grouping may increase the Damage on Torso by 5% but this change is so slightly it isn't realy noticeable.

As i said, the Damage done to the Trainings Ground Mechs is about +70% compared to Live Fire Damage, because LRM Damage drops massivly when shooted against moving targets, and i mean with moving: Atlas at 30+kph. When he stand still and snipes yes he may die hard. But even on Walking speed you avoid the Splash damage Missles do. So move in cover or keep moving, don't be a tinsoldier standing around, have an AMS installed and everything is fine. I have no Problems fighting LRM boars with twice the Damageoutputt as my Catapult has. With more Ammo and Amor on their side.
Because i know how to use and Avoid LRM's, i even win LRM duells on a 2vs1 basis and bring the other LRM boats down.

So there must be in some extend some Skill involved in this Missle throwing Game.. only 3 of my 23 Mechs are Missle Boats. And i have no Problems fighting with the Mechs and Setups a Missle Boat. So please stop whining about "LRM are OP now, Training ground shows it."

Because the LRM Damage on Training ground is thanks to Splash damage about 70% higher then in real Combat unless the Enemy is a dumbass, which don't start moving when he sees incomming Missles. As any speed about 30kph negates the Splash damage. Of course lot of Snipers stand around and don't move even when they got Missles incomming. I sight i love when i shot 60 lrm in a single Volley with my Awesome. And yes then a Sniperphract is then a Onehit death. But he didn't moved at all for 4 Seconds with incomming Missles.

TL;DR:
Missles have Splash damage, this is the reason a not moving Target like in Training ground gets 70% more Damage then a Mech moving 30+ kph. So LRM damage in Training ground is totally unrealistic.

Edited by Elkarlo, 08 March 2013 - 12:25 AM.

[Nth Adonis]

Elkarlo, on 08 March 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

I have just had a joyride in my CPLT-C1(f), a Mech i know by heart and with 500+ drops in it in this Configuration.

My Observation: The Damage LRM do in the Training Ground is massivly exagerated,
i can't take down an Atlas with 3 Volley's in a live Combat Situation. I need about 6-7 for that.

Then i was on the same map, and fought Moving Mechs on nearly the same Spots and guess what.
I needed 5-6 Volley for a Pretty baby and i damaged a Atlas only to orange Armor with 3 Shots.

Everything stayed the same, you need to use Tag for good Kills.
The better Grouping may increase the Damage on Torso by 5% but this change is so slightly it isn't realy noticeable.

As i said, the Damage done to the Trainings Ground Mechs is about +70% compared to Live Fire Damage, because LRM Damage drops massivly when shooted against moving targets, and i mean with moving: Atlas at 30+kph. When he stand still and snipes yes he may die hard. But even on Walking speed you avoid the Splash damage Missles do. So move in cover or keep moving, don't be a tinsoldier standing around, have an AMS installed and everything is fine. I have no Problems fighting LRM boars with twice the Damageoutputt as my Catapult has. With more Ammo and Amor on their side.
Because i know how to use and Avoid LRM's, i even win LRM duells on a 2vs1 basis and bring the other LRM boats down.

So there must be in some extend some Skill involved in this Missle throwing Game.. only 3 of my 23 Mechs are Missle Boats. And i have no Problems fighting with the Mechs and Setups a Missle Boat. So please stop whining about "LRM are OP now, Training ground shows it."

Because the LRM Damage on Training ground is thanks to Splash damage about 70% higher then in real Combat unless the Enemy is a dumbass, which don't start moving when he sees incomming Missles. As any speed about 30kph negates the Splash damage. Of course lot of Snipers stand around and don't move even when they got Missles incomming. I sight i love when i shot 60 lrm in a single Volley with my Awesome. And yes then a Sniperphract is then a Onehit death. But he didn't moved at all for 4 Seconds with incomming Missles.

TL;DR:
Missles have Splash damage, this is the reason a not moving Target like in Training ground gets 70% more Damage then a Mech moving 30+ kph. So LRM damage in Training ground is totally unrealistic.

I haven't even been to the training grounds and again Im only talking about PUGs. Do 10 PUG matchs by yourself and you will see how LRMs have changed and again I know they can be avoided but spending every match hiding behind cover isn't fun.

[Elkarlo]

Dixie Normiss, on 08 March 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

I haven't even been to the training grounds and again Im only talking about PUGs. Do 10 PUG matchs by yourself and you will see how LRMs have changed and again I know they can be avoided but spending every match hiding behind cover isn't fun.

I was now out several Games with My LRM boat, and it doesn't changed much. Lot more PPC's flying around need to keep closer Cover, and some more LRM Mechs out there, but i could keep them nice surpressed and killed them.
Of course when you are on the receiving end of a Veteran LRM Player and have only green ones on your Team. Then you may have a total different perception. Atm there are more Veteran LRM players out again. Yes.
But thats the only difference i notice. Better Players not Better LRM's. I do the same Damage since the Tag range Upgrade.
No Change for me. No Difference. But more Veteran LRM Players makes it harder for me and MM3 Balancing issues. Everything else stayed the same.

But as said, a Veteran CPLT LRM Player can take on LRM Stalker and another LRM carrier at the same time, and will pound both into ground and then go for the rest of the enemy Team. But this off course have something to do with Skill, but off course then i am a Skill less Missle exploiting user.

When i have a good ping of 115, i do the same with my Phract's, Dragons, Centurions etc.. I kill 2-3 Enemy Mechs fast with high Burst Damage. Then i am not Skill less. When i do the same with Missles which i have to do because when my Ping goes to 130 it simply is very hard to go in the fast combat. Then i am a Skillless Loser.

And my Record are 8 Kills in one Game in an CN9-AL, no logon Weapons but a Ping of 119.
So i have to adept my Playstyle to the Ping. This is worse than adepting your Playstyle to the fact
that there are Missle Boats out there.

Edited by Elkarlo, 08 March 2013 - 12:51 AM.

[Vrekgar]

OP, Your an *****.

Yes LRM's got a much needed change to the flight model. Previously they flew in a pattern that resembled an X that pinched inwards and outwards. This produced wildly inconsistent results, looked terrible, and caused missiles to clip through each other which does not make logical sense.

At certain distances the missiles had ZERO spread. This was bad. Other distances they spread as wide as two atlas standing side by side.

To get the enhanced flight characteristics you have to mount Artemis, which is supposed to improve grouping anyway, and you must have direct Line of sight to the target, or Tag, or Narc affecting the target. If you dont satisfy any of these conditions your missiles do not group better at all and nothing has changed.

Missiles Weight Alot compared to other weapons. They are also the single most countered weapon in the game with the longest time to target. They have TWO prompts warning players they have missiles incoming, A huge Flashing red banner along with a voice prompt Directly stating "Warning, Incoming Missiles!" This is also componded by they flying through the sky in a trail of bright unmistakable yellow orbs.

ECM counters missiles completely, Just attacking the launching mech counters them in most cases. AMS counters some missiles, and with a large enough umbrella it signifigantly impacts even missile boats effectiveness. The ******** ground counters missiles! Buildings and boulders counter missiles with 100% effectiveness if you have half a brain cell.

Heres a scenario. An enemy mech is boating 6 PPC's and theres 400m of open ground between you and him. Your under cover behind a building but you cant get away without him shooting you. What do you do?

PPC's are LIGHTER than a Missile boats load and travel much faster with nothing you can do to stop them from hitting you.

People have gotten complacent with rampant ECM cover and the old ways of AMS umbrella being forgotten. There is a reason every single mech has AMS mounts. If your traversing open ground or are in a predictable place, chances are there will be a missile boat waiting to shoot at you.