400 replies to this topic

[buttmonkey]

after that time the LRMs got so mega buffed every single mech had to have them i dont think they are that much of a problem lol, i will always remember the rain of fire!

[VladoG]

Elkarlo, on 08 March 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

*cought* 3 Shots Atlas down*cought*
Sorry but to say that i did that already 3-4 weeks ago in my AWS-8R
Direct Fire support LRM Awesome with 4xARLRM15 + Tag. It's nice to blow an D-Dc in 3 volley into oblivion. But that is nothing the new Flight Path has done. The Spread is the Same. But i am using ARLRM Mechs since Dezember.
And i have 3 different LRM Boats:
Long Sustained Combat High Mobility LRM Boat. CPTL -C1
Bombardmentship: STK-5M
Awesome Awesome LRM Boat. AWS-8R
All three have not realy changed maybe the grouping is 5% tighter. But you already putt 90% of your missles with Artemis and Tag into the Torso Areas against Phract, Dragon, Awesome, Stalker, Atlantes, CPTL-K2. At least i was able with my Artemis Mechs to do so. BEFORE the Patch. So i see no difference now. Maybe it is a little eaier for inexperienced Players now. But for me it don't matter.
And when you throw 324 Damage into the Torso Zones of a Mech which don't go for cover he dies. No Matter what. Heck i even have killed Atlantes with 2 Salvos two Weeks ago with my AWS-8R so there is no Change in it at all. Dumb Players still die the same way they did before. But now that Artemis is "improved" they simply whine louder.

4xLRM 15 have a Damageoutputt of 108 what do you expect that nothing happens?
And please don't come with TT... 4x LRM15 with Artemis do around 50 Damage per volley which is thanks to double Armor the same relativly and with Autocrits in CT and Headknockouts crits they are even worse there as they are in MWO. (LRM15 is the most effective Launcher in Battletech Heat and Misslehit wise)

Khobai is right. I have like 500+ matches in my Atlas and I can tell the difference after patch. So can Khobai. You can also notice in matches that boats have more kills overall. Damage was distributed all over my Atlas before patch, now all rockets hit one area of your mech and you can loose one side of the mech to one salvo. This was not happening before so please spare us you wise comments unless you are sitting in Atlas like Khobai or me.

[Sheraf]

VladoG, on 08 March 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

Khobai is right. I have like 500+ matches in my Atlas and I can tell the difference after patch. So can Khobai. You can also notice in matches that boats have more kills overall. Damage was distributed all over my Atlas before patch, now all rockets hit one area of your mech and you can loose one side of the mech to one salvo. This was not happening before so please spare us you wise comments unless you are sitting in Atlas like Khobai or me.

I think it is depend on your luck. As you moving, the LRM might end up hit one single spot on you thus causing massive damage there. When I test in the testing ground, it took me 3 salvos of LRM 20 Artemis to destroy the stand still atlas there. Either way, don't tank LRM , it might look like not much LRM, but that might be 75 missile flying your way.

[Mr 144]

VladoG, on 08 March 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

Khobai is right. I have like 500+ matches in my Atlas and I can tell the difference after patch. So can Khobai. You can also notice in matches that boats have more kills overall. Damage was distributed all over my Atlas before patch, now all rockets hit one area of your mech and you can loose one side of the mech to one salvo. This was not happening before so please spare us you wise comments unless you are sitting in Atlas like Khobai or me.

Heh...do I qualify for your uber criteria Oh almighty wise 6-week old ^{(January 27th join date)} Atlas sage? I have plenty of time in my Atlases. I have noticed no discernable difference in damaged recieved in any of my Atlases. A Stalker LRM boat could **** me up pre-patch if I was wide open, and a stalker LRM boat still ****'s me up post-patch if I'm dumb enough to catch the full barrage. Meh...LRMs are only a repetitive threat if used by a skilled player or against a poor player just like always...as you can say this about any weapon system in the game, I'm OK with that.

Plenty of Newbs can Lurm, and they by far have the easiest learning curve, but only to a point.
Plenty of Newbs get smacked around by Lurms, but by far have the most available counters.
A skilled player should have no problem against a Newb LRM boat.
A Newb LRM boat should be decimated by a skilled player.
A skilled LRM boat vs another skilled player should have relatively an equal chance at success.
A Newb LRM boat vs A Newb player should just be a mess...(but fun to watch)
Newb LRM = "skill-less" point and click comparison prominent in this thread.

Which of these conditions do you find untrue?

Mr 144

Go Troll Newbs in an Ilya and tell me it's any different.

Edited by Mr 144, 08 March 2013 - 06:53 AM.

[Mercules]

Dixie Normiss, on 08 March 2013 - 03:43 AM, said:

I have never killed a friendly mech with LRMS and I didn't even think you could target allies but I have only ever used LRMs a few times since I find them boring.

All I can say is that you probably have damaged and/or killed friendly mechs if you are LRMing from 900 meters out. Most often a friendly is also shooting the mech you are LRMing that far away unless you have 900 meters of LoS and sensor upgrades like BAP or the modules for range. Many times those two mechs are in spitting distance of each other and moving around. Your missiles drop in and will hit friendlies if they happen to be inbetween your target and you and when the target dies those missiles still fly in to the last location which is occasionally occupied by a friendly mech now.

As a Light Pilot, if I was holding a lock for LRM dumps I get the hell out of there the moment that mech drops because I know those LRMs are now on a final path that will end somewhere in the general area of where the mech was last targeted, which will be close, but not always where it died.

You also just admitted you don't use LRMs all that much. I would also say Elo is matching you up with some really bad players if you can stand in one spot and LRM that many to death. Most matches I play mechs launching LRMs are sniped and harassed by fast movers who flanked the team to remove the threat... like myself.

[Tikkamasala]

Has the damage distribution of lrms with artemis changed with the latest patch? My very limited testing in a couple of real solo launch matches suggests that the lrms are indeed hitting the ct more often than before (with just a bit of [splash] damage to the side torsos). I was using a double tag if that makes any difference

[silentD11]

What they should do is buff LRMs more and nerf ECM more. Then we can spam LRMs even more, cause it takes skill!

[VladoG]

Mr 144, on 08 March 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

Heh...do I qualify for your uber criteria Oh almighty wise 6-week old ^{(January 27th join date)} Atlas sage? I have plenty of time in my Atlases. I have noticed no discernable difference in damaged recieved in any of my Atlases. A Stalker LRM boat could **** me up pre-patch if I was wide open, and a stalker LRM boat still ****'s me up post-patch if I'm dumb enough to catch the full barrage. Meh...LRMs are only a repetitive threat if used by a skilled player or against a poor player just like always...as you can say this about any weapon system in the game, I'm OK with that.

Plenty of Newbs can Lurm, and they by far have the easiest learning curve, but only to a point.
Plenty of Newbs get smacked around by Lurms, but by far have the most available counters.
A skilled player should have no problem against a Newb LRM boat.
A Newb LRM boat should be decimated by a skilled player.
A skilled LRM boat vs another skilled player should have relatively an equal chance at success.
A Newb LRM boat vs A Newb player should just be a mess...(but fun to watch)
Newb LRM = "skill-less" point and click comparison prominent in this thread.

Which of these conditions do you find untrue?

Mr 144

Go Troll Newbs in an Ilya and tell me it's any different.

I feel like we are talking about different things. It doesn't matter how good you are or not. You will eventually find yourself wrecked by LRM boat because he caught you in the open. That is not a problem. The problem is that before patch damage from LRM's was pretty equally distributed to CT and side torso. After pach you get a lot more damage to CT and only minor damage to side torso. Same goes for the situation when you timed properly your arm into the LRM swarm. A lot of them missed, after patch you can say by bye to your hand and side torso probably too. I am packing LRM20 myself on Atlas and I can clearly see the difference. Mech side torso gets damage only from my UAC's and LL if I miss CT, LRM's go straight to CT.

To be clear, LRM boats probably don't see difference because 60-90 LRM's would kill Mech pretty much the same way. if you are packing like 20-40 LRM's you can clearly see the difference.

[Hedonism Robot]

A couple things have changed for LRMS since last patch with the buff to Artamis:

• Missiles track better and continue to chase after you get behind cover.
  
• More players have target retention module so they can keep their missiles locked on you for longer than before
  
• Tag was buffed considerably since the start of the game and now is very functional on boats
  
• The AMS is really not very good and many players have dropped it entirely to free up tonnage. They usually just rely on the ECMs to protect them. In a game where there are no ECMs they are just screwed.

These factors make LRMs feel OP when they really are not that off balance. Here is what I think would really help with fixing the issues.

• AMS needs to burn through ammo a lot faster and provide a lot more protection. I could see a mech with duel AMS systems being able to effectively protect itself for 10 seconds worth of bombardment per 1 ton of ammo. Note, that this means you will run out of AMS ammo long before the LRM boat runs out of ammo. The AMS also needs to protect better against SRMs and SSRMs too.
  
• With buffs to the AMS the ECM can then afford to take a couple of the suggested nerfs people have made and be available on all medium and light chassis. The best suggestion I saw was to get rid of the counter mode and just make BAP always count as an ECM in counter.

These would leave LRMs as extremely dangerous but allow players a choice when building their mechs if they want to gain some protection vs them.

[Roland]

Does the OP realize that you can just move within 180m of an LRM carrier, and then their missiles won't do any damage?

Lots of folks don't seem to understand this aspect of the game.

[Suki]

Major Scumbag, on 07 March 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

LRM...Death by coward

Said sniper hiding behind the 1000m range.....

[Suki]

Dixie Normiss, on 08 March 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

I haven't even been to the training grounds and again Im only talking about PUGs. Do 10 PUG matchs by yourself and you will see how LRMs have changed and again I know they can be avoided but spending every match hiding behind cover isn't fun.

Say, how you avoid snipers PPC/Gauss mechs? Think by not going open water like a tree on the hill.
Why hiding behind the cover vs LRMs is a problem and vs Gsuss/PPCs not?

[Bully_Hayes]

Wait a minute....how can this possibly be ? How can LRMs be dominant when ECM has ruined them ? Ether ECM has somehow auto-balanced itself or the complainers need to hold a convention so they can all get on the same page rather then trample each others genitals.

[Demos]

But why this all or nothing approach?
As mostly stated, LRM sucks versus ECM and shine versus non-ECM
In an open field caught by a LRM boat you will be toast (and there is not always the possibility to acoid the open space). Why should such an unlucky guy punished by insta-kill?

So, for god's sake,
1) reduce the effect of ECM (lock- on possible, but takes more time)
2) damage inside minimum range possible (maybe no lock-on, but dumb fire possible and/or with damage per missile reduced, something like half damage) --> also according to TT
3) widen the spread of missiles and reduce the damage a bit

Problem solved.
LRM boats will not insta kill new or unlucky players in the open, but will cause more damage verus ECM covered mechs and are not helpless versus mechs inside their minimum range.

And with the new visual modes snipers could be also a bit less efficient on most maps.

Edited by Demos, 08 March 2013 - 08:49 AM.

[Suki]

Dixie Normiss, on 08 March 2013 - 03:43 AM, said:

I have never killed a friendly mech with LRMS and I didn't even think you could target allies but I have only ever used LRMs a few times since I find them boring.

That only shows us also with your statement by doing LRM kills half the team all the time 900+ meters that you doesnt' even know what is LRM boat.
Every brawler knows it perfectly that if he's not carefull enough he can get more damage cirkling the enemy from his teammate LRMs. Heck, I even oneshotted by big LRM salvo my friend's spider when he was unlucky.
And about the distance even 700-800m it's hard not only to kill but scratch anybody course he has 7-8 second to get undercover

If you doesn't know the simple rules to boat LRM, or not to get under friendly LRM fire, think you just boating one of the many sniper setups, and then - Your opinion means nothing here, dude.

Edited by Suki, 08 March 2013 - 09:13 AM.

[Tesunie]

Funny. I've played several matches where I didn't have a single LRM boat on the field. Then again, it doesn't take much to find and get close to an LRM boat.

And, I beg to differ about LRMs. They do require skill to use. To have them reliably hit their target, skill is needed. I've seen LRM users I've spectated that left me wincing because they weren't using them skillfully, and shooting them into buildings, hills, at targets inside a cave, before they had a lock, breaking lock right after shooting to lock another target and shot at them... etc.

If you want my full opinion on the subject, read the LRM link in my signature.There is a comment on the last page of it that I feel is also a good remark on the subject. To use LRMs, no.You might not need much skill. To use them well, especially in ECM land, does require skill. Ever tried to blind fire LRMs at an ECM team and still hit? Requires more skill to hit blind fired LRMs then any other weapon in the game.

Also, use LRMs now that it keeps track of accuracy per weapon. Tell us what your accuracy is with it? I consider myself good with LRMs, and I've got a low accuracy on the weapon right now.

Edited by Tesunie, 08 March 2013 - 11:44 AM.

[Fooooo]

I'd say almost everyone has low acc on LRMS......


CBA cutting up a screeny atm but my stats so far for my stalker which has only been 4xML 4xLRM15 1xTag.

Stalker stats


Matches W L W/L Kills Deaths K/D Damage
STALKER STK-5M 13 9 4 2.25 25 6 4.17 5,733



Matches Fired Hits Acc % Time DMG

LRM15 13 8,280 2,798 33.79% 01:01:51 4,674



I seem to be getting kills fairly easy tbh.

Edited by Fooooo, 08 March 2013 - 09:34 AM.

[Fut]

Demos, on 08 March 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

But why this all or nothing approach?
As mostly stated, LRM sucks versus ECM and shine versus non-ECM
In an open field caught by a LRM boat you will be toast (and there is not always the possibility to acoid the open space). Why should such an unlucky guy punished by insta-kill?

So, for god's sake,
1) reduce the effect of ECM (lock- on possible, but takes more time)
2) damage inside minimum range possible (maybe no lock-on, but dumb fire possible and/or with damage per missile reduced, something like half damage) --> also according to TT
3) widen the spread of missiles and reduce the damage a bit

Problem solved.
LRM boats will not insta kill new or unlucky players in the open, but will cause more damage verus ECM covered mechs and are not helpless versus mechs inside their minimum range.

And with the new visual modes snipers could be also a bit less efficient on most maps.

.... And anybody using less than 4xLRM15s will be completely ineffective with LRMs.
It's like complaining about being hit by a PPC-Boating Stalker, and claiming that PPCs should be nerfed. It's not logical to decrease the effectiveness of a weapon because some people use insane amounts of them, all that does is make it so nobody will use them unless they take insane amounts of them. It actually promotes boating of weapons instead of balanced 'Mech builds.

LRMs are fine. LRM boats are dangerous, but aren't impossible to defeat.
If somebody continually dies from LRM fire, they are doing something wrong and should approach the game differently. If you keep doing the exact same things as before, expect the same results and no improvement.

[Royalewithcheese]

Fut, on 08 March 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

If somebody continually dies from LRM fire, they are doing something wrong and should approach the game differently. If you keep doing the exact same things as before, expect the same results and no improvement.

QFT

[Yankee77]

Fut, on 08 March 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

.... And anybody using less than 4xLRM15s will be completely ineffective with LRMs.
It's like complaining about being hit by a PPC-Boating Stalker, and claiming that PPCs should be nerfed. It's not logical to decrease the effectiveness of a weapon because some people use insane amounts of them, all that does is make it so nobody will use them unless they take insane amounts of them. It actually promotes boating of weapons instead of balanced 'Mech builds.

LRMs are fine. LRM boats are dangerous, but aren't impossible to defeat.
If somebody continually dies from LRM fire, they are doing something wrong and should approach the game differently. If you keep doing the exact same things as before, expect the same results and no improvement.

Well said. Excellent post, that distills the matter to its essence.

Thank you.