400 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

The problem with the new flight path is that they ALL go into the center torso of an Atlas, resulting in it dying in potentially 2-3 vollies. That is absurdly unbalanced.

[Elkarlo]

No they don't Khobai. I have the same distribution on a Moving mech i had before,
i even hit now the Legs. Something I seldom have done before with LRM.
(ARLRM + TAG equipt Mech)


But the tighter inflight Path maybe intresting in some other respect.
I may test it later.. with a Flame, equipt with LBX + 4M-Lasers i was able to shot down 4-5 Missle down out of an 30 Missle Artemis Volley. With the tighter incomming Flightpath (the end Grouping is as tight as it was before) it should be easier to shot down Missles with Weapons. Especially with the LBX and Beam Lasers.

Edited by Elkarlo, 08 March 2013 - 01:10 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

No they don't Khobai. I have the same distribution on a Moving mech i had before

The distribution is not even close to the same. The spread is way tighter with Artemis now. I can completely vaporize heavy and assault mechs in 2-3 vollies with my x4 LRM15 stalker.

I believe that PGI needs an equivalent to the cluster table for LRMs... a random number of LRMs should have a chance to miss the target, and Artemis should simply reduce the number of missiles that miss. Tightening the spread just turns LRMs into a punch-through weapon which is the complete opposite of what they're supposed to be.

Edited by Khobai, 08 March 2013 - 01:29 AM.

[One Medic Army]

Khobai, on 08 March 2013 - 01:02 AM, said:

The problem with the new flight path is that they ALL go into the center torso of an Atlas, resulting in it dying in potentially 2-3 vollies. That is absurdly unbalanced.

From my testing on the Training Grounds (because I crash immediately upon entering a real match) LRMs have roughly a 75-80% CT hit rate on an atlas, this is with TAG and Artemis, using 2 LRM10s.
However the same setup when shooting at a Jenner stripped off pretty much all the armor (not head or rear) before killing the mech.
Suggestion: add a spread modifier based on the physical size of the mech being targeted. LRM spreads hitting an atlas would be larger, so they'd properly spread across multiple components, while spreads on light mechs would be smaller so they'd actually work.

[LordDante]

Dixie Normiss, on 07 March 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

Are you serious??? I can throw on a few LRMs and average 5 kills a match by myself sitting at about 900m all day long. I don't because its not fun. If I wanted a clickfest Id go play Diablo.

most stupid thing iv read in a loooong time

[Scurry]

I think that something many of us are missing here is that the new enhanced spread is only given by Artemis, which only works with LOS. Hence, in my opinion, the new focused damage is still fairly balanced in that, to get it, you must expose yourself to direct fire weapons, which have pinpoint damage as well. Furthermore, direct-fire is superior in that you do not have to lock on before firing. Using TAG also mandates LOS throughout the LRM's flight time, which makes things even worse for the LRM boat when it comes to return fire, whereas many snipers can just fire and dodge.

[LordDante]

Scurry, on 08 March 2013 - 01:54 AM, said:

I think that something many of us are missing here is that the new enhanced spread is only given by Artemis, which only works with LOS. Hence, in my opinion, the new focused damage is still fairly balanced in that, to get it, you must expose yourself to direct fire weapons, which have pinpoint damage as well. Furthermore, direct-fire is superior in that you do not have to lock on before firing. Using TAG also mandates LOS throughout the LRM's flight time, which makes things even worse for the LRM boat when it comes to return fire, whereas many snipers can just fire and dodge.

my point of view exactly !

[Elkarlo]

Khobai, on 08 March 2013 - 01:24 AM, said:

The distribution is not even close to the same. The spread is way tighter with Artemis now. I can completely vaporize heavy and assault mechs in 2-3 vollies with my x4 LRM15 stalker.

I believe that PGI needs an equivalent to the cluster table for LRMs... a random number of LRMs should have a chance to miss the target, and Artemis should simply reduce the number of missiles that miss. Tightening the spread just turns LRMs into a punch-through weapon which is the complete opposite of what they're supposed to be.

*cought* 3 Shots Atlas down*cought*
Sorry but to say that i did that already 3-4 weeks ago in my AWS-8R
Direct Fire support LRM Awesome with 4xARLRM15 + Tag. It's nice to blow an D-Dc in 3 volley into oblivion. But that is nothing the new Flight Path has done. The Spread is the Same. But i am using ARLRM Mechs since Dezember.
And i have 3 different LRM Boats:
Long Sustained Combat High Mobility LRM Boat. CPTL -C1
Bombardmentship: STK-5M
Awesome Awesome LRM Boat. AWS-8R
All three have not realy changed maybe the grouping is 5% tighter. But you already putt 90% of your missles with Artemis and Tag into the Torso Areas against Phract, Dragon, Awesome, Stalker, Atlantes, CPTL-K2. At least i was able with my Artemis Mechs to do so. BEFORE the Patch. So i see no difference now. Maybe it is a little eaier for inexperienced Players now. But for me it don't matter.
And when you throw 324 Damage into the Torso Zones of a Mech which don't go for cover he dies. No Matter what. Heck i even have killed Atlantes with 2 Salvos two Weeks ago with my AWS-8R so there is no Change in it at all. Dumb Players still die the same way they did before. But now that Artemis is "improved" they simply whine louder.

4xLRM 15 have a Damageoutputt of 108 what do you expect that nothing happens?
And please don't come with TT... 4x LRM15 with Artemis do around 50 Damage per volley which is thanks to double Armor the same relativly and with Autocrits in CT and Headknockouts crits they are even worse there as they are in MWO. (LRM15 is the most effective Launcher in Battletech Heat and Misslehit wise)

Edited by Elkarlo, 08 March 2013 - 02:28 AM.

[Sephlock]

Elkarlo, on 08 March 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

\ With the tighter incomming Flightpath (the end Grouping is as tight as it was before) it should be easier to shot down Missles with Weapons. Especially with the LBX and Beam Lasers.

What?

[deadeye mcduck]

Yet again, you have all forgotten how to avoid LRM's (cover, ECM ect), and still persist that LRM's are some how "OP".

[SgtMagor]

Elkarlo, on 08 March 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

*cought* 3 Shots Atlas down*cought*
Sorry but to say that i did that already 3-4 weeks ago in my AWS-8R
Direct Fire support LRM Awesome with 4xARLRM15 + Tag. It's nice to blow an D-Dc in 3 volley into oblivion. But that is nothing the new Flight Path has done. The Spread is the Same. But i am using ARLRM Mechs since Dezember.
And i have 3 different LRM Boats:
Long Sustained Combat High Mobility LRM Boat. CPTL -C1
Bombardmentship: STK-5M
Awesome Awesome LRM Boat. AWS-8R
All three have not realy changed maybe the grouping is 5% tighter. But you already putt 90% of your missles with Artemis and Tag into the Torso Areas against Phract, Dragon, Awesome, Stalker, Atlantes, CPTL-K2. At least i was able with my Artemis Mechs to do so. BEFORE the Patch. So i see no difference now. Maybe it is a little eaier for inexperienced Players now. But for me it don't matter.
And when you throw 324 Damage into the Torso Zones of a Mech which don't go for cover he dies. No Matter what. Heck i even have killed Atlantes with 2 Salvos two Weeks ago with my AWS-8R so there is no Change in it at all. Dumb Players still die the same way they did before. But now that Artemis is "improved" they simply whine louder.

4xLRM 15 have a Damageoutputt of 108 what do you expect that nothing happens?
And please don't come with TT... 4x LRM15 with Artemis do around 50 Damage per volley which is thanks to double Armor the same relativly and with Autocrits in CT and Headknockouts crits they are even worse there as they are in MWO. (LRM15 is the most effective Launcher in Battletech Heat and Misslehit wise)

heh, my DC resents that . been noticing lately peeps been dropping in boating Awesome's. glad to see them on the battlefield really tough mech to put down cheers!

[Nth Adonis]

LordDante, on 08 March 2013 - 01:54 AM, said:

most stupid thing iv read in a loooong time

Stupid how? Catch me in game and Ill show you. All you gotta know is how to click.

[PurpleNinja]

Kaeseblock, on 07 March 2013 - 02:24 AM, said:

I'm playing an ALRM CPLT-C4 for quite some time now and I assure you, the dmg I deal and the kills I get stayed the same compared to the LRM trajectory before the patch.

Mine too, my Stalker LRM boat are still the same.
The only thing I noticed is that I'm seeing a lot less ECM in the battlefield, so LRM wins.
But this could be just a bad ELO rating matching me against newbies who are not aware of the ECM.

[Nth Adonis]

Elkarlo, on 08 March 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

I was now out several Games with My LRM boat, and it doesn't changed much. Lot more PPC's flying around need to keep closer Cover, and some more LRM Mechs out there, but i could keep them nice surpressed and killed them.
Of course when you are on the receiving end of a Veteran LRM Player and have only green ones on your Team. Then you may have a total different perception. Atm there are more Veteran LRM players out again. Yes.
But thats the only difference i notice. Better Players not Better LRM's. I do the same Damage since the Tag range Upgrade.
No Change for me. No Difference. But more Veteran LRM Players makes it harder for me and MM3 Balancing issues. Everything else stayed the same.

But as said, a Veteran CPLT LRM Player can take on LRM Stalker and another LRM carrier at the same time, and will pound both into ground and then go for the rest of the enemy Team. But this off course have something to do with Skill, but off course then i am a Skill less Missle exploiting user.

When i have a good ping of 115, i do the same with my Phract's, Dragons, Centurions etc.. I kill 2-3 Enemy Mechs fast with high Burst Damage. Then i am not Skill less. When i do the same with Missles which i have to do because when my Ping goes to 130 it simply is very hard to go in the fast combat. Then i am a Skillless Loser.

And my Record are 8 Kills in one Game in an CN9-AL, no logon Weapons but a Ping of 119.
So i have to adept my Playstyle to the Ping. This is worse than adepting your Playstyle to the fact
that there are Missle Boats out there.

My problem isn't learning the game, I have also got 8 kills and usually average around 4 kills a match unless leveling a mech or trying out a new loadout. I also don't have a problem surviving the LRMs. My only issue is that I don't think everyone hiding behind cover every PUG match is as much fun.

Edited by Dixie Normiss, 08 March 2013 - 03:39 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Yet again, you have all forgotten how to avoid LRM's (cover, ECM ect), and still persist that LRM's are some how "OP".

not possible to stay in cover the entire game and still win conquest since some of the nodes are in completely open areas.

[Nth Adonis]

One Medic Army, on 07 March 2013 - 11:47 PM, said:

Well, I guess either you have magic cover-avoiding LRMs, or you're up against people who don't understand to get to cover when they hear the incoming missile warning.
If you're firing into the brawl at 900m, I wonder how many of those 5 kills are friendly mechs?

Also, is that for the matches you're not busy fighting off the light/medium mechs out hunting the LRM boats?

I have never killed a friendly mech with LRMS and I didn't even think you could target allies but I have only ever used LRMs a few times since I find them boring.

[LordDante]

Dixie Normiss, on 08 March 2013 - 03:23 AM, said:

Stupid how? Catch me in game and Ill show you. All you gotta know is how to click.

not all share ur imbaness and so nerfing lrms would be wrong just because U r bored doesnt proofs anything

take a look at the normal player not the 8 kills in one game guy

btw wanna post ur stats so we all can particepate in ur greatness ?

that would be kind

[Revorn]

Dixie Normiss, on 08 March 2013 - 03:23 AM, said:

Stupid how? Catch me in game and Ill show you. All you gotta know is how to click.

[Sheraf]

Just don't stand watching the LRM salvo fly into your mech. I just had an LRM exchange this recent match. My enemies were simply standing there launching LRM at me, while i go in and out of cover to launch LRM at them. The fight was 800m distance. They barely moved out of the way

Edited by Sheraf, 08 March 2013 - 05:06 AM.

[Elkarlo]

Sephlock, on 08 March 2013 - 02:25 AM, said:

What?

You can shot down Missles, Narc etc.

An AMS does 1.8 Damage if it shoots at 100 Meters, up to 5 for 200 Meters on a Missle Swarm according to the Defs.

A Narc Beacon got 2 Hitpoints, a Missle got 1 Hitpoint (SRM and LRM alike)

So you need to do 1 Hitpoint to shot down a Missle. The Problem is simply that a Missle Swarm is a Swam of lot of small moving Objects. And you are simply Blindfiring into it hoping to hit a Missle.

The Tighter the Missle Swarm the easier it is to Kill a Missle.
On a Dual ARLRM15 (30 Missles tight grouping) i was able to kill 1-2 Missles with an LBX shot, and with 4 M-Lasers in Dual Mounts which putt out an single beam with 10 Damage. (2 M-Laser in one Beam) i got another 2-4 Missles per try.

There was a Question a Month ago if it is possible to do it, and it is. But not the Gundam Manga Style that you shot every Missle down. My Flame had the best Setup i could think of and i got per volley the Volume of an additional AMS on Missles down.

Now with a little tighter Grouping of the Missles, it should be easier to kill more incomming Missles with an LBX or Beam Lasers.

Shot simply into the Cloud of incomming Missles and then go into cover. It is not a great Idea but it works when you are on your Path into cover to reduce the Damage you got from Missles. More a Last Chance Method then a good tactic.

And before the Missles still hit you on a small target but flew in a wide swarm.. now the flaw in a narrow Swarm all the time, making hitting them easier.

Edited by Elkarlo, 08 March 2013 - 05:20 AM.