400 replies to this topic

[One Medic Army]

Ok, so on the testing grounds with 2x ARtemisLRM10s+TAG:
4 volleys to core an A1
3 volleys to kill a Jenner (second volley left it with no armor except cockpit)
6 volleys to core an atlas (barely orange on side torsos)
1 volley to kill a commando (no surprise there)

It seems pretty clear that the pattern's been tightened up a bit, enough so that on large slow targets the majority of missiles will hit CT (on an LRM10+Artemis_TAG).
I also noticed the missiles separated into 2 groups in flight, one trailing slightly.

Edited by One Medic Army, 07 March 2013 - 03:42 AM.

[w0rm]

One Medic Army, on 07 March 2013 - 03:39 AM, said:

Ok, so on the testing grounds with 2x ARtemisLRM10s+TAG:
4 volleys to core an A1
3 volleys to kill a Jenner (second volley left it with no armor except cockpit)
6 volleys to core an atlas (barely orange on side torsos)
1 volley to kill a commando (no surprise there)

Remember the testing ground target drones use horribad stock armor.

[IG 88]

Dixie Normiss, on 07 March 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

Things were so close to balanced and matchs were fun but since the last patch its become an LRM clickfest again. I understand you guys need to put a weapon in the game for the kiddies that's easy to use and requires no skill but its killing the fun again. I don't know how you should fix it this time just that 6 out of 8 mechs are boats each match again and theres no point in playing the game at the moment because of it.

please use lrm and shut your mouth

[Znail]

I haven't noticed any increase in LRM boats, but I have noticed an increase in mechs with 1-2 LRMs. I think comes from a marked decrease in AMS usage since ECM showed up. Before ECM so did most people use AMS on their mechs and thus if a couple of them were near each other so were it useless to use a single LRM launcher.

1-2 LRM 15 makes for a pretty good investment in a mech now days. You aren't as locked in the arty role as a boat, but even a single LRM 15 do a lot of damage if you get a nice angle to hit mechs that have no cover from your position.

[One Medic Army]

w0rm, on 07 March 2013 - 03:40 AM, said:

Remember the testing ground target drones use horribad stock armor.

The A1 has pretty good stock armor, same with the Atlas.
I'm mainly going by how concentrated the damage was.

Atlas took almost all to CT, A1 took most to CT, and Jenner took it like a sandblaster.

[Jay Kerensky]

Noth, on 07 March 2013 - 03:13 AM, said:

that's the problem. They either dominate or are useless because the other team understands how to counter them. It just shows that LRMs are broken overall.



Nope. the only way they kill more missiles if if the missiles are fired in more of a stream rather than a clump

Sorry but NO - a balanced mech with LRMs and lasers and/or balistics means that it can handle long short and medium ranges. Boating may be broken, but finally, balanced mechs can start to shine.

I have been hammering things in my Trebuchet 5J
1 LRM20 with Artemis
1 Lge Laser
2 Meds

I have also been on the receiving end of flights of LRMs - use cover, don't run out in the open and play tactically. Watching boats waste round after round on you is funny, especially if your team is then able to use their preocupation with you to move in on them.

LRMs aren't broken, it's getting into a playing rut or not adapting your playing style that needs to be looked at.

[LordDante]

Noth, on 07 March 2013 - 03:34 AM, said:

You do know that splat cats relied on flanking. Flanking was never dead. In fact this change makes flanking more difficult as if you are seen you will likely take more damage overall.

in PUG HELL ( thats where i use to hang arround ) flanking moves where allmost obsolete
the team that formed up a good defencive position and focused fire won the game.

hell i have those as textmacros on my keyboard and i know why. BUT it becomes boring after a while
Maybe its a different story in premade heaven, where u comunicate and pull off nice timed flanking moves
but in PUG HELL that wont work .

[Noth]

Jay Kerensky, on 07 March 2013 - 03:47 AM, said:

Sorry but NO - a balanced mech with LRMs and lasers and/or balistics means that it can handle long short and medium ranges. Boating may be broken, but finally, balanced mechs can start to shine.

I have been hammering things in my Trebuchet 5J
1 LRM20 with Artemis
1 Lge Laser
2 Meds

I have also been on the receiving end of flights of LRMs - use cover, don't run out in the open and play tactically. Watching boats waste round after round on you is funny, especially if your team is then able to use their preocupation with you to move in on them.

LRMs aren't broken, it's getting into a playing rut or not adapting your playing style that needs to be looked at.

I wasn't saying that LRMs are broken because they are too powerful. I was saying they are broken because they are too easily countered when you know how (or have ECM) and if you don't, they simply dominate the match. It's essentially them being nigh useless in competitive matches (they still use them somewhat but not near as much as in pugs), and potentially overwhelming in pugs. Look at LoL if you have to. They had a champ that would just stomp pug games, but it was almost never used in competitive matches because of how easy it was to counter. Instead of just buffing the numbers they reworked the champ. In the end it still felt like the same champ but was less of a pubstomper and suddenly became viable in competitive play. It was a win for both casuals and competitive players.

LordDante, on 07 March 2013 - 03:49 AM, said:

in PUG HELL ( thats where i use to hang arround ) flanking moves where allmost obsolete
the team that formed up a good defencive position and focused fire won the game.

hell i have those as textmacros on my keyboard and i know why. BUT it becomes boring after a while
Maybe its a different story in premade heaven, where u comunicate and pull off nice timed flanking moves
but in PUG HELL that wont work .

I flanked almost every game in Pug hell. A SRM6 Cent that comes out of nowhere and begins coring the backs of mechs causes a lot of havok.

Edited by Noth, 07 March 2013 - 03:57 AM.

[n0e]

Kaeseblock, on 07 March 2013 - 02:24 AM, said:

It's right that more people are using LRMs again but they could have done so before. I think the use of LRMs will decrease as soon as more people start to use sniper builds again. They are somewhat the natural enemy of LRMs.

More people are using lrms and this is mostly because of the new alpine map and the release of the trenchbucket which has a few lrm variants. There was also the ppc buff vs ecm and the artemis "buff".
This all adds up and we can see more lrms on the battlefield atm.

[Hawks]

I just played my first game since the patch. In my Trebuchet, I was killed by a single hit from each of an LRM20 and an LRM10.

Something is very not right.

[Xelchon]

I think what some ppl are not fond of is that the ECM is nerfed. Many players who could not use full LRM support boats since the coming of ECM, rushed to play their long-missed LRM configs now that good PPC snipers give them a chance. That's the impression i got from the gameplay since the patch.
I think the LRM should be viable at least this much. As said above its making the game more tactical and variable.

Hawks, on 07 March 2013 - 03:58 AM, said:

I just played my first game since the patch. In my Trebuchet, I was killed by a single hit from each of an LRM20 and an LRM10.

Something is very not right.

If you take a full LRM 30 to the face and you're using a mech 50 tons or lighter, the remaining half of your day should be pretty much on the worse side. Nothing abnormal with that for me.
Or, it could be an ammo explosion bug or ammo explosion itself, dunno.

Edited by Xelchon, 07 March 2013 - 04:06 AM.

[Hawks]

It was not like that before.

I hate to sound like a doomsayer, but it seems that PGI have bolloxed up the game with this patch. Yet again.

[Noth]

Hawks, on 07 March 2013 - 04:06 AM, said:

It was not like that before.

I hate to sound like a doomsayer, but it seems that PGI have bolloxed up the game with this patch. Yet again.

Balance will forever be going on. We will see waves of good balance and bad balance as bugs are fixed and new things are added to the game. Expecting this type of game to not go through waves of balance is short sighted.

[LordDante]

Noth, on 07 March 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

I wasn't saying that LRMs are broken because they are too powerful. I was saying they are broken because they are too easily countered when you know how (or have ECM) and if you don't, they simply dominate the match. It's essentially them being nigh useless in competitive matches (they still use them somewhat but not near as much as in pugs), and potentially overwhelming in pugs. Look at LoL if you have to. They had a champ that would just stomp pug games, but it was almost never used in competitive matches because of how easy it was to counter. Instead of just buffing the numbers they reworked the champ. In the end it still felt like the same champ but was less of a pubstomper and suddenly became viable in competitive play. It was a win for both casuals and competitive players.



I flanked almost every game in Pug hell. A SRM6 Cent that comes out of nowhere and begins coring the backs of mechs causes a lot of havok.

send me a friend invite ingame
i could use a guy like u !

the problem is the timing ! ( unless ur sitting in a CN9-D and are able to get away real fast )

[Noth]

LordDante, on 07 March 2013 - 04:17 AM, said:

send me a friend invite ingame
i could use a guy like u !

the problem is the timing ! ( unless ur sitting in a CN9-D and are able to get away real fast )

Typically a 92kph Cent-A is fast enough to get away. It does still fail because well, pugs are pugs and can be oblivious to all around them. When it does work it is glorious even when I die.

Edited by Noth, 07 March 2013 - 04:19 AM.

[Voidcrafter]

Well yea... I see why there are LRM-lovers, who are upset about this topic.
I think the LRMs in the current state were going to be perfect but there's one huge BUT...
It's a game - for the "real life" comparisson, the missiles should be devastating, hard for someone to ignore and etc. currently I find them to break the ballance.
Cmon - even a LRM lover should agree with me, that this is the one almost-none-skill-to-use weapon in the whole game - you get lock, you fire, you should know the trajectory of your missiles, based on where are they possitioned and that's about it.
You can actually spend a whole game nuking the hell outta stuff without even seing once the "stuff" mentioned.
And don't even get started with the ECM and how hard it is to keep a target tagged, cause every single weapon has his drawbacks and counters.
I also think that the missiles in their pre-this-patch state were a way more balanced than they're now, atleast in game, not real life terms.
There MUST be a wider spread for the missiles - now I find them to hit almost all the time my center torso, which makes it very deadly weapon.
Add to that the mentioned - you just need a lock and be 200-1000m away, and there we go on our point-and-click adventure. Could be a very small change but at the moment, cause of that change, they are turning everything into ashes.
And it's the same very small change, that makes the LRMS so appetizing weapon of choice and from there the hell follows.
People getting burned by them realize that they've recieved some tweaking and on the second time they get obliterated by them, they just put LRMs in some mech for the next match and launch with it, and so on.
So at the end we got 8 man games with about half of the team carring the long range missiles, which are deadly enough for a two man per team, not to mention 4+.
You CAN NOT just sit behind some forsaken hill and destroy enemy center torso, or hit it almost all the time.
I can't do that. Neither with energy weapons(all the time atleast) nor "skill" weapons(ballistics, SRMs, PPCs) tho I actually have a good range and more than a descent aim.
Why should you, cowering behind the cover, be able to do that?
They were perfect before this patch. Something you should pay attention to unless you wanna die.
Now they are wrecking havoc in ballance terms and I reallly don't approve that.
Not for a weapon that have such a long range, does not require any aiming and chase the targets.

Edited by Voidcrafter, 07 March 2013 - 04:19 AM.

[Hawks]

Voidcrafter, on 07 March 2013 - 04:19 AM, said:

I also think that the missiles in their pre-this-patch state were a way more balanced than they're now, atleast in game, not real life terms.

QFT

[MrPils]

I switched back to an LRM STK-3F after my first few matches (15+10+10+10+5ML) post patch. As soon as I realised my Treb was dying to a couple of 2xLRM15 volleys I was off to the dark side. I havent played LRMs since they were OP last time, so was definitely very rusty. However my K/D and W/L are both triple my other mechs after 36 matches on the new patch.

I do love the variety you get on switching builds to fit FOTM for each patch. Stops the game getting boring!

They'll nerf them LRMs and lasers down to a balance, it just may take a while as everything else will need changing following full HSR implementation. The game plays like counterstrike (lots of hiding and ambushing) now as it so easy to damage people. If I get a 15 second window of firing (lasers or lrms) on someone now I expect them to be dead no matter what mech they're in, and am disappointed if theyre not. I could not kill people this quickly prior to LRM pathing changes and HSR going live.

I'm not enjoying the game as much as the previous patch with the current weapon balance values. Im finding it far too easy to kill and be killed, I prefer the COD style gameplay of having to hose your opponents thoroughly before they drop compared to the realism driven BOOM HEADSHOT style of Counterstrike. Patience will be the key while they look at rebalancing, but I do hope they get it done before ballistic/missile HSR goes live though otherwise the tears will flow big time.

Edited by MrPils, 07 March 2013 - 04:33 AM.

[Xelchon]

Voidcrafter, on 07 March 2013 - 04:19 AM, said:

You CAN NOT just sit behind some forsaken hill and destroy enemy center torso, or hit it almost all the time.
I can't do that. Neither with energy weapons(all the time atleast) nor "skill" weapons(ballistics, SRMs, PPCs) tho I actually have a good range and more than a descent aim.
Why should you, cowering behind the cover, be able to do that?
They were perfect before this patch. Something you should pay attention to unless you wanna die.
Now they are wrecking havoc in ballance terms and I reallly don't approve that.
Not for a weapon that have such a long range, does not require any aiming and chase the targets.

Dude, have you even played an LRM boat? It's never that simple. As you said, but literally you CAN NOT just sit behind some forsaken hill and destroy enemy center torso. Saying this only proves you haven't boated LRMs before. Do that, and you'll spend 1k LRM ammo for 100 damage, since you'll waste an entire arsenal to crack an empty hill.
Skill weapons? What the hell is that? I have 22 mechs in my lab, and only 2 of them are LRM boats, I love ballistics/srm builds and I mainly use them, but I still can't accept this comment.

Edited by Xelchon, 07 March 2013 - 04:41 AM.

[Revorn]

Voidcrafter, on 07 March 2013 - 04:19 AM, said:

Well yea... I see why there are LRM-lovers, who are upset about this topic.
I think the LRMs in the current state were going to be perfect but there's one huge BUT...
It's a game - for the "real life" comparisson, the missiles should be devastating, hard for someone to ignore and etc. currently I find them to break the ballance.
Cmon - even a LRM lover should agree with me, that this is the one almost-none-skill-to-use weapon in the whole game - you get lock, you fire, you should know the trajectory of your missiles, based on where are they possitioned and that's about it.
You can actually spend a whole game nuking the hell outta stuff without even seing once the "stuff" mentioned.
And don't even get started with the ECM and how hard it is to keep a target tagged, cause every single weapon has his drawbacks and counters.
I also think that the missiles in their pre-this-patch state were a way more balanced than they're now, atleast in game, not real life terms.
There MUST be a wider spread for the missiles - now I find them to hit almost all the time my center torso, which makes it very deadly weapon.
Add to that the mentioned - you just need a lock and be 200-1000m away, and there we go on our point-and-click adventure. Could be a very small change but at the moment, cause of that change, they are turning everything into ashes.
And it's the same very small change, that makes the LRMS so appetizing weapon of choice and from there the hell follows.
People getting burned by them realize that they've recieved some tweaking and on the second time they get obliterated by them, they just put LRMs in some mech for the next match and launch with it, and so on.
So at the end we got 8 man games with about half of the team carring the long range missiles, which are deadly enough for a two man per team, not to mention 4+.
You CAN NOT just sit behind some forsaken hill and destroy enemy center torso, or hit it almost all the time.
I can't do that. Neither with energy weapons(all the time atleast) nor "skill" weapons(ballistics, SRMs, PPCs) tho I actually have a good range and more than a descent aim.
Why should you, cowering behind the cover, be able to do that?
They were perfect before this patch. Something you should pay attention to unless you wanna die.
Now they are wrecking havoc in ballance terms and I reallly don't approve that.
Not for a weapon that have such a long range, does not require any aiming and chase the targets.

I disagree and only mention, try to Tag an ECM Comando and try to hitt him, then you see how "skillless" and "easy" LRMs are.

Edited by Revorn, 07 March 2013 - 04:35 AM.