340 replies to this topic

[Esplodin]

coolnames, on 08 March 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

Are you saying that from experience? Or from your spreadsheets

I pilot Spiders almost exclusively myself. While I'm not an uber MW, I do passably well. I'm either splatted in first early in the match or I'm the last man standing with 1-2 kills in my 5D and 400 pts damage. The only build I ever found remotely effective for the 5K was gimping my speed and loading an AC5 or AC2 with advanced sensor range. Surprised the c.rap outta a Raven expecting an easy kill, but that is about the only memorable thing in the entire 107500 mech xp worth of grind.

If you can't put down a mech on your own, you are a liability to your team. MG can't put down a mech except with some exceptional circumstances - like the kind that contain unicorns with leprechauns on their backs and skittles falling from the sky. Currently the MG is critting more than it should, and it will strip components like butter. Reducing the potential DPS of a mech does not end it's combat effectiveness. I've had fights where it was down to myself in a spider with 0 AC2 ammo and a small laser and a cat with no ears and one ML. If I would have had machine guns, I'd still have had ammo. It would have been just as useless since the Cat had CT armor.

I'm glad you are having fun teaming with a buddy. However, just imagine how much MORE effective you could be by piloting a Jenner and kill the threat rather than gimp. Winning is achieved by reducing the enemy's DPS as quickly as possible. That is best achieved by killing mechs, not working over sections one at a time. Watch ANY competition video up on youtube to see how the big boys do it. Not a MG to be found, and that makes dakkarachnid sad.

[Terror Teddy]

Esplodin, on 08 March 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

However, just imagine how much MORE effective you could be by piloting a Jenner and kill the threat rather than gimp.

Or a standard commando with 3 energy mounts and a SRM...

[Fiachdubh]

Great videos. I have to admit I had no time for MGs in the past. Then I got my Raven 4X, while rebuilding I could not do anything useful with the two tonnes I saved by ditching the MGs and ammo so decided may as well just leave them. What a revelation they were, the amount of money and xp bonus those little guys make from component destructions have more than justified their place on my mech.

As if that was not enough to endear them to me there was the time I killed an Atlas (obviously already critted to hell) with them. When the already dead Assault pilots are being abusive to me or anyone else in chat I just think of that moment.

So take it from a former MG hater, they do have a role in the game and they perform it well.

Edited by Fiachdubh, 08 March 2013 - 12:50 PM.

[Royalewithcheese]

Speaking of Dragons, why is it that those things seem to be everyone's second-favorite (after the Spider) MG platform? Dragons and Spiders must just be so overwhelmingly powerful that ppl don't want to make fights even more unfair by putting real guns on them

[Shumabot]

Vassago Rain, on 07 March 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

I'd rather take actual guns that let me blow the other guy up.
And a mech that's not a waste of a team slot.

Why would you want to actually be useful Vas? You could be running around looking for mechs with no armor while your team gets mauled to death by enemies you aren't helping to kill!

[coolnames]

Esplodin, on 08 March 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

I pilot Spiders almost exclusively myself. MG can't put down a mech...

Thanks for sharing your experience

Shumabot, on 08 March 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

Why would you want to actually be useful Vas? You could be running around looking for mechs with no armor while your team gets mauled to death by enemies you aren't helping to kill!

Just like him, you did not watch the video and hear "Do not use MGs as primary weapons"

Nope. You just read the title of the thread, then read the 2nd troll post, then posted some sarcastic junk that added nothing to a (unfortunately, hateful) discussion.

Edited by coolnames, 08 March 2013 - 01:12 PM.

[Buckminster]

For me, I love my MGs.

I've been running them on my K2 build. Pair of ERPPCs, pair of MGs, and tons of DHS. I love that they have the ability to get in there and damage components while my ERPPCs are recharging, and they don't add an ounce of heat. I used to run a pair of MLs instead of the MGs, and with the extra heat they brought to the table I was forced to fire my ERPPCs less often.

So sure, to all you "A small laser does more damage than a MG" people, that's true. But an ERPPC does even more than that, so by packing a no-heat weapon dedicated to stripping criticals, I can fire my ERPPCs much more often, with very nasty results.

I only have 8 matches of stats to prove it (which isn't much, I know), but my K2 has a 2.67 K:D in those 8 games. And in most of them, I ended up face to face with a mech that I stripped of armor with the ERPPCs, all the while removing every single weapon they have with my MGs. Other Cats, Stalkers, Atlases... they all look funny with no guns.

[Yokaiko]

Until machine guns have more potential damage then their ammo explosing, no.

[Shumabot]

coolnames, on 08 March 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

Thanks for sharing your experience




Just like him, you did not watch the video and hear "Do not use MGs as primary weapons"

Nope. You just read the title of the thread, then read the 2nd troll post, then posted some sarcastic junk that added nothing to a (unfortunately, hateful) discussion.

There is no mech in the game that can be viable boating machine guns. No mech has four ballistic hardpoints to spare, the closest to even thinking that way is the dragon and that thing is a pile of trash. Your ignorant sycophancy and lack of fundamental understanding of this game is the real troll here.

Edited by Shumabot, 08 March 2013 - 01:26 PM.

[coolnames]

Shumabot, on 08 March 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

There is no mech in the game that can be viable boating machine guns. No mech has four ballistic hardpoints to spare, the closest to even thinking that way is the dragon and that thing is a pile of trash. Your ignorant sycophancy and lack of fundamental understanding of this game is the real troll here.

That, is like, your opinion, man.

[p00k]

machine guns still suck

1) with those ballistic hardpoints you're better off taking a weapon that can help you get through the armor in the first place, and then actually destroy the component instead of merely disabling what's inside it

2) your shooting at dummy mechs is incredibly skewed on how easy it is to disable, since most custom builds have more than 1 thing in that component. the commando, for example, only has those lasers in each arm, so when a crit does happen, 100% of the time it will affect that weapon. as opposed to, say, spreading the damage among 4-5 items, some of which are dramatically more likely to be crit than others

3) its short range and continuous firing requires you to maintain LOS on your target, and likewise allows them and allies to continue to return fire at you

4) ammo explosions

bottom line, it's just not worth it. if you can't cram a bigger ballistic, better to just take a bigger engine, or more armor, or another heatsink, or more ammo for something else, than take a machinegun

[MustrumRidcully]

coolnames, on 08 March 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

Thanks for sharing your experience




Just like him, you did not watch the video and hear "Do not use MGs as primary weapons"

Nope. You just read the title of the thread, then read the 2nd troll post, then posted some sarcastic junk that added nothing to a (unfortunately, hateful) discussion.

Just shorten it to "Don't use MGs". You are always a better help to your team if you can actually also help them remove that armour, not just do something to the enemy after that has already happened. That is the point. Play that MG partner, and I assure you, playing with another mech that uses actually weapons will help your team more.

[coolnames]

p00k, on 08 March 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

machine guns still suck

1) with those ballistic hardpoints you're better off taking a weapon that can help you get through the armor in the first place, and then actually destroy the component instead of merely disabling what's inside it

2) your shooting at dummy mechs is incredibly skewed on how easy it is to disable, since most custom builds have more than 1 thing in that component. the commando, for example, only has those lasers in each arm, so when a crit does happen, 100% of the time it will affect that weapon. as opposed to, say, spreading the damage among 4-5 items, some of which are dramatically more likely to be crit than others

3) its short range and continuous firing requires you to maintain LOS on your target, and likewise allows them and allies to continue to return fire at you

4) ammo explosions

bottom line, it's just not worth it. if you can't cram a bigger ballistic, better to just take a bigger engine, or more armor, or another heatsink, or more ammo for something else, than take a machinegun

1) I know you probably know what I am about to write...but just in case, it wasn't obvious:

Sometimes, loading out a mech with beefy weapons in other hardpoints leaves you with just enough tonage/slots for a (few) machineguns and ammo. If you want to forfeit the potential benefit of instantly destroying an exposed weapon while your main weapons are on cooldown...for say, more heatsinks or other ammo, then that is your choice.

2) I guess I could have made a 15 minute long video (that no one would watch) of MGs destroying all the weapons of each mech in the training grounds...but I decided to just use the first 2 mechs I encountered when I loaded in.

Sure it is skewed, but the fact it crits, and crits very fast the more MGs you have, is very real. It is up to the player to make it effective in real gameplay and not in the training grounds.

3)

4) And how that is different from any other ammo based weapon?

[Petrothian Tong]

I use mine as tracers for my AC20.

[Vermaxx]

coolnames, on 08 March 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

Sometimes, loading out a mech with beefy weapons in other hardpoints leaves you with just enough tonage/slots for a (few) machineguns and ammo. If you want to forfeit the potential benefit of instantly destroying an exposed weapon while your main weapons are on cooldown...for say, more heatsinks or other ammo, then that is your choice.

You've said so far that people need multiple. Two MG is two tons. Cut them out and take two more heatsinks. Hell, take one and waste the last ton if you only had three crit slots left. An extra heatsink will boost the potential dps of any other weapons more than two MGs with one ton of ammo. It is not worth carrying for the situational benefit of enhanced crit when you can take other variants and cause more damage to begin with. This is clearly a difference of opinion, and I'm not here to convince you. You aren't convincing anyone else either. The people who think MGs are fine are a significant minority. I know this because I see almost no mechs carrying them. That more than anything tells me the non-posting players don't believe the MG hype in any great quantity either.

I'm sure you'll say something about how the weapons are misunderstood. They are not misunderstood, they do sub par damage against mechs in a mech combat game.

Petrothian Tong, on 08 March 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

I use mine as tracers for my AC20.

That is a valid reason, if you are willing to spend a ton and a half on a tracer instead of more ammo and half a ton of armor.

Edited by Vermaxx, 08 March 2013 - 02:02 PM.

[coolnames]

Vermaxx, on 08 March 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

You've said so far that people need multiple. Two MG is two tons. Cut them out and take two more heatsinks. Hell, take one and waste the last ton if you only had three crit slots left. An extra heatsink will boost the potential dps of any other weapons more than two MGs with one ton of ammo. It is not worth carrying for the situational benefit of enhanced crit when you can take other variants and cause more damage to begin with. This is clearly a difference of opinion, and I'm not here to convince you. You aren't convincing anyone else either. The people who think MGs are fine are a significant minority. I know this because I see almost no mechs carrying them. That more than anything tells me the non-posting players don't believe the MG hype in any great quantity either.

I'm sure you'll say something about how the weapons are misunderstood. They are not misunderstood, they do sub par damage against mechs in a mech combat game.

fyi, a single MG = 0.5 tons

MGs are soooo misunderstood! lol.

So far, most of the MG haters are either reading just straight numbers from the weapon stat charts and/or are only considering a face-to-face slug fest...and no other strategy/tactics/situations. They also love hating on the idea that anyone is preaching the use of ONLY MGs...which is not the case.

You are right, it does seem like there is a minority, hence why I made the thread! Maybe if a few more people tried them out, that might change. If not, oh well

Thanks for your opinion.

[Shifty Eyes]

coolnames, on 07 March 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

Because you can't bring multiple hard hitting weapons in a couple of the scout variants.

Why is the 'use a better weapon' argument even used when considering variants like CDA-3C? To use a better weapon, you have to make space and slow the mech down...and it stops becoming a scout.

This. MG is freaking half ton. The very next lightest ballistic weapon is AC2 (I think), which is 6 tons... 12x heavier. A light with several ballistic hardpoints or a heavier mech with packing a couple of MGs because there was some leftover tonnage doesn't have the option to just "bring a bigger gun". Very lame argument. You people need to go to school and stop smoking weed or something.

And also, watch the damn video. It makes a good point. Bunch of lazy whiners. lol.

That said, I do wish MGs did more damage, if for nothing else just because I like the sound they make and I'd totally pew pew pew 24/7.

[Terror Teddy]

coolnames, on 08 March 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

fyi, a single MG = 0.5 tons

MGs are soooo misunderstood! lol.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/M61_Vulcan

100 kilogram 30mm vulcan gun with a fire rate of 6000 rounds per minute.
Now imagine FIVE of these - or lets say 4 and we have a 100 kilogram ammo feed system.
24 000 rounds per minute and weights half a ton.
Each individual round weights 100 grams
The ammo for the MWO machine guns weight 500 grams per round.
The Fire Rate for MWO MG's are 600 rounds per minute - acceptable since the rounds seems to weight five times as much but still a LOT LESS.

And you want me to accept that they should only be useful for stripping paint and can only do damage after someone HELPED me take out armour?

Not to mention the fact that small lasers got a +200% damage boost and MG's got +100% AND takes 3 times as long to deliver their equivalent damage.

Yea, the devs surely misunderstood the MG's

Edited by Terror Teddy, 08 March 2013 - 02:38 PM.

[coolnames]

Shifty Eyes, on 08 March 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

This. MG is freaking half ton. The very next lightest ballistic weapon is AC2 (I think), which is 6 tons... 12x heavier. A light with several ballistic hardpoints or a heavier mech with packing a couple of MGs because there was some leftover tonnage doesn't have the option to just "bring a bigger gun". Very lame argument. You people need to go to school and stop smoking weed or something.

And also, watch the damn video. It makes a good point. Bunch of lazy whiners. lol.

That said, I do wish MGs did more damage, if for nothing else just because I like the sound they make and I'd totally pew pew pew 24/7.

Highfive!

Terror Teddy, on 08 March 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

You almost have me convinced, Teddy. Maybe if you copy paste your post a few more times, it might do the trick!

[Terror Teddy]

coolnames, on 08 March 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

Highfive!


You almost have me convinced, Teddy. Maybe if you copy paste your post a few more times, it might do the trick!

Well, I can pick some other fun things we have today that would make paste out of infantry and vehicles that weights less than half a tonne with impressive firepower and is classified as a machinegun.

What can I say, Im passionate about being able to go one on one with any armament as long as they do a balanced and fair amount of damage.

The way they make the MG now makes it a primary weapons for some chassis that forces them to go tandem with another player and the chassis becomes less than optimal in one vs one.