340 replies to this topic

[liku]

i am having fun... but my ennemies dont..it's hilarious to let them harmless... will soo

coolnames, on 08 March 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

Lol, thanks for your feedback! Glad you are having fun

I am the one who is thankfull! you made me discover a new aspect of the game, and i'm glad the dev were waiting for us to use this new crit system, it's lovely!

My 5N is now my favorite mech! you just blow the weapon then leave it be, it's so much fun, it's like to have "trial battle training" against moving target

[Mike Townsend]

I don't really get how there's any disagreement here. I decided to do a test. Took a stock K2 onto the trial map a couple times. Set up behind a Commando. When the timer hit 50 seconds I started firing. The first run I fired MGs continuously into its rear CT. The armor The SRM went red at 1:10 or so. Woo! One of its three weapons is down. The mech died when the timer hit 1:24. I tried again using just the medium lasers, same conditions. The mech died when the timer hit 0:58. Why would I want two tons worth of weapon that can destroy one component in 20 seconds and kill a mech in 34 when I could have two tons of weapons that can kill the same mech in 8 seconds? I suppose I could try again with a pair of smalls, but I don't really see the point. A Spider 5K can carry one torso mounted energy and four MGs. A Jenner D can carry four arm mounted energy and a pair of SRMs. I cannot think of any circumstances in which I would be better off being in a 5K with four MGs and an ML than a Jenner D with four MLs and two SRM4. In any sort of team focus fire situation, it would be more useful for me to assist in stripping armor and wearing away the structure than to crit a few items a few seconds before the mech is dead anyway.

[coolnames]

Mike Townsend, on 08 March 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

I don't really get how there's any disagreement here.

I am pretty sure everyone agrees that MGs (as they are in the game now) are not for direct damage...which is what you proved in your test. Please watch the video.

Mike Townsend, on 08 March 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

Why would I want two tons worth of weapon that can destroy one component in 20 seconds and kill a mech in 34 when I could have two tons of weapons that can kill the same mech in 8 seconds?

In fact, you do not want to use MGs to deal damage. They are used to kill components.

You use other weapons as the main damage dealers and gain an advantage over your enemy by destroying the components as soon as they are exposed and under MG fire.

The disagreement is that others think using that 2+ tons is better used elsewhere whether it be heatsinks, lasers, equipment, engine, armor, etc. Also, because of this disagreement, others are hating on the 3C, 5K, and 4X.

Edited by coolnames, 08 March 2013 - 07:23 PM.

[Blark]

coolnames, on 08 March 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

[..]
You use other weapons as the main damage dealers and gain an advantage over your enemy by destroying the components as soon as they are exposed and under MG fire.
[..]

Well, in theory it sounds good, but:

- You have to be in =<90m range in order to use mg's; if you try to get into that range with lights vs anything bigger, chances are that any player worth his salt will have an easy time killing you (especially after that last great patch.. It's fun to blow up lights and cicadas in 1-2 alphas ).

- If you run around trying to force using your mg(s) (I see a lot of dragon pilots doing so) you won't be able to constantly twist and face away in order to spread incoming damage, because you have to stay on target with your mg, which is not good, unless you want to die quickly.

- if you're not in a <90m brawl vs some very slow mech who does not know how to twist you might have a hard time to destroy components in that one section that has been stripped of armor, because mg's, even at low ranges, spread quite a bit, so you have to boat them if you want internals to die quickly.

Of course, they are not completely useless, you might meet mechs which have been stripped of armor and help your team by destroying their internals, or play against pilots who just can't aim, so you can "disarm" them if your own aim ain't very good either, so you are not able to actually focus components reliably with "real" weapons

In most games however mg's are not worth their weight unfortunately, because real pilots, especially the better ones are simply not target dummy's in the training grounds.

This is only my opinion of course, based on all the games I've played so far, so If you have fun using it, and feel it's working for you: by all means, use it

-

[One Medic Army]

Let's put it this way.
I have 2 unused ballistic hardpoints on my Cent 9-D (2x SRM6, 2xML, XL350).
I could take off 2 tons combined between SRM ammo and heatsinks and shove 2 MGs and a ton of ammo on there.
It might be worthwhile occasionally, but I'd rather have more SRM ammo instead.

[liku]

i could'nt stop playing! maybe i should try some love for the spider as well. I also tried to my GaussKat 4X, added 2 MG one ER LLL and one LRM5 on this slow beast. It's selfsufficient: i can strip of armor where i want quickly, then while waiting for the cooldown off my main damage dealer waepon, i can destroy any weapon/component present in that segment BEFORE my other weapons are ready to fire, it's tremendous!

This is the last post i give here, until everybody realize this i will keep this advantage for me.

Alone, a light mech cannot do wonders with MG against armored part... nobody are laughting at me now, everybody who's have watching over me disabling weapons in seconds and giving a HUDGE advantage to my team! Disabling AC20 and SRM6 on a brawler atlas is a death sentence!

As soon as a see a naked arm or a torso legg, any part, i start to turn red every weapons availlables... the enemy pilot are in despaire... look that nice hexa PPC, just lost 2 PPC and 2 DHS... that mighty splaschcat still hae all body parts.. but no weapons (grrr so much people wear CASE this time), that lovely hunchies ( i hate them, they have so much reach with their arms) just lost half his firepower in seconds...

In fact using Assault, and Heavy, i only have diffulties to disables fast light, Cataphracts and Atlase are my favorites! As soon as you start to brawl, you dont have to care about finishing an arm, or a torso, or trying to core it as fast as possible before dying, you just focus where the weapons are, if the guys is unarmored (like LRm support) you can also fire your main weapons at a different target.

That way i think the targeting module is a must have with MG. As a fast Dragon you wanna multitask: PPC/Laser to another target, MG on your main, and if skilled you can even send some LRM flying. A BEAST! You wanna really like or badly hate that Fang..depending on what end you'r sitting

[Volume]

Should be comparable to a small laser in armor destruction, and then add the critting thing on top of it so it has utility as well, since you're paying an extra like ton and a half instead of using a ballistic hardpoint for something useful in other major ways.

[coolnames]

One Medic Army, on 08 March 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

Let's put it this way.
I have 2 unused ballistic hardpoints on my Cent 9-D (2x SRM6, 2xML, XL350).
I could take off 2 tons combined between SRM ammo and heatsinks and shove 2 MGs and a ton of ammo on there.
It might be worthwhile occasionally, but I'd rather have more SRM ammo instead.

Short and sweet. Thanks for sharing your opinion.

Blark, on 08 March 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

Well, in theory it sounds good, but:
- You have to be in =<90m range in order to use mg's; if you try to get into that range with lights vs anything bigger, chances are that any player worth his salt will have an easy time killing you (especially after that last great patch.. It's fun to blow up lights and cicadas in 1-2 alphas ).

Yep, under 90 meters! And, this situation you describe makes me assume you are thinking about MGs being used as a primary weapon, and in a duel....

Blark, on 08 March 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

- If you run around trying to force using your mg(s) (I see a lot of dragon pilots doing so) you won't be able to constantly twist and face away in order to spread incoming damage, because you have to stay on target with your mg, which is not good, unless you want to die quickly.

MGs are bad for direct damage. You shoot them at vulnerable areas on your target for 0.001 - 2 seconds...all the while still maintaining your normal firing of your damage dealing weapons. A quick swipe over the vulnerable area is all it takes, and you are back to business.

Blark, on 08 March 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

- if you're not in a <90m brawl vs some very slow mech who does not know how to twist you might have a hard time to destroy components in that one section that has been stripped of armor, because mg's, even at low ranges, spread quite a bit, so you have to boat them if you want internals to die quickly.

I am not following you on this one. As far as the spread, I have to disagree; spread is not noticeable to me when under 90m. But yeah, the more MGs you have, the quicker the components are more likely to be destroyed...

Blark, on 08 March 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

This is only my opinion of course, based on all the games I've played so far, so If you have fun using it, and feel it's working for you: by all means, use it

<3 thanks for sharing it!

[liku]

I couldn't resist: the love I have got is because now I'm duelling and the poor guys that came to an easy kill against the noob using MG always finish weapon less.

About the range at 120 to 140 meter it is still very efficient just remember to zoom a bit.
MG are ballistic so max range is theoretically 270 meter.. in my new experience i use it with success starting to 140 meter.


I think i understood why you did make this thread: you wanted to share with other that new great weapon instead of using a very unfair advantage. But i think it only need a few times people get stamped pretty badly many time without weapon and they will start to understand (i think when we will see many polls rant hate cry nerfs against MG that the time as come)


Imho the flamer still need a boost mybe the range and the heat need tuning . MG are a bit OP as they are but im glad you cannot crits part or engine with it..will look line a super easy mode.




Question: did you test if the internal damages count toward cbills. I feel they dont..will test tomorrow.

[Johnny Reb]

One Medic Army, on 08 March 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

Let's put it this way.
I have 2 unused ballistic hardpoints on my Cent 9-D (2x SRM6, 2xML, XL350).
I could take off 2 tons combined between SRM ammo and heatsinks and shove 2 MGs and a ton of ammo on there.
It might be worthwhile occasionally, but I'd rather have more SRM ammo instead.

I had this same thing just a large pulse laser that went to an er large laser. There was my 2 tons and still have 2 srm6 with artimis and 3 tons ammo. Heat is still 142 (or 134) efficiency. so finally its (2 machine, 2 srm6 artimis, 1 er large laser, xl340)

Edited by Johnny Reb, 08 March 2013 - 09:37 PM.

[Siliconwolf]

I think this matter is more about personal choice. Coolnames is simply showing a situation where MG can be useful. While they really do need to make them more useful overall, this thread has highlighted uses for them as they currently stand. The one poster's suggestion of using them on the KT isn't a bad one. I personally think it's cool that he took the time to create videos and write explanations for their use. Also, I give him kudos for remaining civil even while getting a fair amount of grief. Really, what it comes down to is this: MG can work fairly effectively for destroying components in unarmored sections of a mech. It's up to the individual to decide if that situational use is worth the weight and slots to put them on their mech.

[Psikez]

coolnames, on 08 March 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

I am pretty sure everyone agrees that MGs (as they are in the game now) are not for direct damage...which is what you proved in your test. Please watch the video.



In fact, you do not want to use MGs to deal damage. They are used to kill components.

You use other weapons as the main damage dealers and gain an advantage over your enemy by destroying the components as soon as they are exposed and under MG fire.

The disagreement is that others think using that 2+ tons is better used elsewhere whether it be heatsinks, lasers, equipment, engine, armor, etc. Also, because of this disagreement, others are hating on the 3C, 5K, and 4X.

I can't troll when you talk sanely

[Mavairo]

Choice between MGs or more AC10 rounds.. and an upgrade to an SRM6 from an SRM4.

Yeah.... no brainer.
Choice between MGs or maybe a pair of sinks?

Sinks.

There's a reason people above the Suck Tier of play don't actually use the MGs on anything but a drunken bender build. They suck, and fail.

Edited by Mavairo, 08 March 2013 - 11:09 PM.

[Bernard Matthaios]

Ever since I slapped 2 Machine Guns on my CTF-4X I have been seeing a lot more component destruction happening. In a heavy mech, your not gonna win any races. When I see battle, some if not most, enemy armor is stripped. You don't need the get within 90m to reap the benefit I've had success with Machine guns at their max range of 200m, although not as accurate, still a good crit seeker.
On testing grounds I think I took me 3 Large Laser "shots" to destroy a Atlas's LRM 20 vs the 30-40 rounds of MG ammo. This will be a little different in "live" battle. Regardless, If I can destroy a AC20 faster than it takes to core the mech (even if its a few seconds faster) I already come out of the battle on top. Remove the threat, then move on to the next.
Machine guns are more of a support weapon if anything. I don't see them as much use on any of MY light mechs at the moment. However, on my mediums and heavy mechs they can can play a important role, Especially for a crit seeking build.

[coolnames]

Mavairo, on 08 March 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

Choice between MGs or more AC10 rounds.. and an upgrade to an SRM6 from an SRM4.

Yeah.... no brainer.
Choice between MGs or maybe a pair of sinks?

Sinks.

There's a reason people above the Suck Tier of play don't actually use the MGs on anything but a drunken bender build. They suck, and fail.

Your BM knows no bounds!

[ZnSeventeen]

I think they are indeed slightly useful, but could use a serious boost. Just too niche right now.
At least have the dev's let us try it with triple damage or ROF, and see if it works. If it is OP at triple damage, we will tell them. We are good at that.

[Mavairo]

coolnames, on 08 March 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

Your BM knows no bounds!

Says the guy intentionally giving out bad advice.

[coolnames]

Mavairo, on 09 March 2013 - 12:01 AM, said:

Says the guy intentionally giving out bad advice.

keep the bm coming!

[Mavairo]

coolnames, on 09 March 2013 - 12:03 AM, said:

keep the bm coming!

How is that BM?

You're either intentionally giving people bad advice so you can make people easier for you and your buddies to pop.

Or, you have no earthly idea what you're on about in regards to weapon performance. Lemme guess you're one of the 2 guys that disliked my vid, because it popped your bubble that MGs aren't worth the tonnage or crit slots they consume.

I mean seriously, if watching the dissection of a Kitty Cat's ears vs it's weapon disarmament wasn't enough for you (and the blowing off of the ear came just as fast as the actual weapon destruction), or Cataphract, or Awesome for that matter, what else needs to be said really?

Literally one shot of difference, that was it between 2 MGs, or just blowing the ears, Arms, and ST weapons off. You're trading 2 tons and 3 and a half seconds for... one shot which comes much quicker.
Look, if you think their cool, that's fine. But they aren't good performing weapons. And talking like they are is damaging not only to the community as a whole, but to the devs as well. Since the devs will have conflicting feedback.

Edited by Mavairo, 09 March 2013 - 12:10 AM.

[Terror Teddy]

coolnames, on 08 March 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

In fact, you do not want to use MGs to deal damage. They are used to kill components.

You use other weapons as the main damage dealers and gain an advantage over your enemy by destroying the components as soon as they are exposed and under MG fire.

Ok, in the case of the Spider with 1 energy mounts and 4 ballistics.
How the hell will that spider manage to do anything worthwile in a one on one fight?

He does not HAVE other weapons - he's got ONE other weapon and that CAN be a large laser if you tweak the build and sacrifice a lot of weight for other gear the mech was designed for.

It's main armament are 4/5 ballistics.