562 replies to this topic

[irony1999]

You can add the fix for the hunch crosshairs being off a bit to the list of stuff in the 5/21 patch:

Omid Kiarostami, on 02 May 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

We found the issue causing it and have a fix on the way. For the curious, it's due to the way we shift the camera forward a bit in the hunchbacks cockpit. The effect is localized entirely to the crosshair - ie, your weapons fire straight even if the cross hair is off.

It should be resolved in the May 21st patch. Thanks for finding this!

[Coolant]

Syllogy, where did you find that Jumpjets were getting a screen shake in your updated May 2nd portion?

[Monsoon]

Coolant, on 03 May 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Syllogy, where did you find that Jumpjets were getting a screen shake in your updated May 2nd portion?

Probably from the same place I heard it, the NGNG podcast, mentioned by Bryan IIRC, though I thought they mentioned it as something they were possibly looking at, I don't recall it being definite.

[Coolant]

Monsoon, on 04 May 2013 - 04:52 AM, said:

Probably from the same place I heard it, the NGNG podcast, mentioned by Bryan IIRC, though I thought they mentioned it as something they were possibly looking at, I don't recall it being definite.

yeah, I don't think I've read or seen anything saying this is definitely going in, which is why I was surprised to see it on the list

Edited by Coolant, 04 May 2013 - 05:56 AM.

[BlueSanta]

Coolant, on 04 May 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

yeah, I don't think I've read or seen anything saying this is definitely going in, which is why I was surprised to see it on the list

I would say the most recent podcast, #71 I think, with Garth. I believe he said they would be doing something with JJ shake.

[coolcook007]

UAV..................... I hope it wont be overpowered!!

[ReaverLord]

bawls to the walls I /aprove

[Koniving]

Arcturious, on 02 May 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

In all seriousness, I hope this was a troll addition to the upcoming features and not an actual, serious possibility though.

I believe it was a serious addition. In tabletop there was a punishment to accuracy modifiers for firing while jumpjetting. Here there's no punishment at the moment. To be perfectly honest I was just poptarting a Highlander while piloting a Raven 4X with AC/20, and I out-poptarted him (mainly because his attention was divided). Point is I didn't really have much if any effort to aim at him. Hit 3 AC/20s to his already damaged side torso and got him. Each one hit exactly where I aimed. We're both jump-jetting. How is that fair?

[Arcturious]

Koniving, on 04 May 2013 - 10:56 PM, said:

Each one hit exactly where I aimed. We're both jump-jetting. How is that fair?

That sounds exactly fair to me. What would have been unfair is if your shots were exactly on target, and yet you missed thanks to a random element introduced by shake. Meanwhile, he turns around and makes a snapshot, that normally would have missed however the random shake means he cockpits you.

In your scenario, he was simply out played by skill. With shake in, skill is no longer a deciding factor. Adding a random element to a skill based game is the worst possible balance you could do.

Sure it existed in table top, however ALL weapons were random hit locations. We have already passed the point where balance in MWO is based around pin point aim. If we accept that for all weapons then the system HAS to remain the same for other variables.

Taking skill out of the equation is not the answer, random number generators will never be a good solution in a real time, non turn based online game.

[Deathlike]

Arcturious, on 05 May 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

Taking skill out of the equation is not the answer, random number generators will never be a good solution in a real time, non turn based online game.

They are still keeping the cone of fire for MGs, so clearly they like that to stay crappy.

[Deathlike]

Hopeful find about HUD issues - no ETA, but hopefully rolled into the next patch and/or hotfix:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2318998

[Gyrok]

Arcturious, on 05 May 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

That sounds exactly fair to me. What would have been unfair is if your shots were exactly on target, and yet you missed thanks to a random element introduced by shake. Meanwhile, he turns around and makes a snapshot, that normally would have missed however the random shake means he cockpits you.
In your scenario, he was simply out played by skill. With shake in, skill is no longer a deciding factor. Adding a random element to a skill based game is the worst possible balance you could do.
Sure it existed in table top, however ALL weapons were random hit locations. We have already passed the point where balance in MWO is based around pin point aim. If we accept that for all weapons then the system HAS to remain the same for other variables.
Taking skill out of the equation is not the answer, random number generators will never be a good solution in a real time, non turn based online game.

Consider this:
Have you ever seen a space shuttle launch?  Know how much they weigh?  Not quite as much as a Highlander mech...
Picture this:
1.) A non aerodynamic metal box that weighs as much as 30 modern average sized family sedans.
2.) This box, has 5 rockets that each weigh as much as a modern compact car strapped to it.
3.) Those rockets provide enough thrust to lift this metal brick straight off the ground and into the air 150' only limited by the fact that they run out of fuel after doing so (because the thrust required is MASSIVE).
4.) Have you ever ridden on a commercial airliner?  If yes, do you remember take off?  Landing?  Know how much thrust that 737/757 had?  About 10-15% of the thrust required to get your rectangular metal box off the ground that high.
5.) Do you have any idea how much real world physics is getting slapped straight in the face with jump jets being what they are right now?  
6.) For the sake of being somewhat realistic...your 90 ton rectangular box would shake...no...not just shake...you would have tremors equivalent to aftershocks from a Magnitude 5.0 earthquake going on all over the mech, much less the insanity in the cockpit.  I hope you're strapped in!  Jump jets should not be realistically useable to attack someone with regularity while they're thrusting your mech.  They should be for strategic/impromptu field position adjustments...that was their intended design.
7.) Youtube a shuttle launch...it has only 2 rockets with about as much thrust as the 5 we're talking about being required to lift a box about the same weight relatively off the ground...see how "calm and peaceful" that looks to you...

Edited by Gyrok, 05 May 2013 - 07:00 PM.

[FrostCollar]

Gyrok, on 05 May 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

Consider this:
Have you ever seen a space shuttle launch? Know how much they weigh? Not quite as much as a Highlander mech...

The Space Shuttles flew quite a bit higher than a Highlander. Anyways, any real world comparisons are of limited use for game balance. Should JJ shake be added? Let's evaluate that based on game balance, and not real world comparisons. After all, the moment you start critically evaluating all the numbers in Battletech you'll notice that all weaponry is incredibly short ranged compared to real weaponry, and it's all downhill from there.

[Helbrecht]

weapon stabilization has been on main battletanks since the 80's. what stabilization means is the gun will stay on target as the tank rolls over terrain. so your real world analogy has no bearing. the fact of the matter is simply people actually think jumpsniping is super easy in reality you have to jump aquire your target aim and kick off a shot in about 3-5 seconds. most people who are crying are brawlers running accross open terrain getting pummeled. i saw these same type of threads on guassapuls, on 40 jagers, on lrm stalkers, on splat cats, etc etc. the underlying problem is you cannot tell people thier bad at the game.

are thier alot of jumpsnipers? yes the reason is a few things 1 is ppcs being the one all do all weapon. 2 is being highlanders being released the highlander sole advatage over other assaults is it can jump it does not have near the firepower of a atlas or a stalker or even a awesome.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Helbrecht, on 05 May 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

weapon stabilization has been on main battletanks since the 80's. what stabilization means is the gun will stay on target as the tank rolls over terrain. so your real world analogy has no bearing. the fact of the matter is simply people actually think jumpsniping is super easy in reality you have to jump aquire your target aim and kick off a shot in about 3-5 seconds. most people who are crying are brawlers running accross open terrain getting pummeled. i saw these same type of threads on guassapuls, on 40 jagers, on lrm stalkers, on splat cats, etc etc. the underlying problem is you cannot tell people thier bad at the game.

are thier alot of jumpsnipers? yes the reason is a few things 1 is ppcs being the one all do all weapon. 2 is being highlanders being released the highlander sole advatage over other assaults is it can jump it does not have near the firepower of a atlas or a stalker or even a awesome.

My 733C have exactly same firepower as my D-DC(AC20,3xSRM6,2xMlas).
And about jumpjeting.Do you know your ELO is rly high?You will meet 8 jumpsnipers in opposite team .I do not care.I will just loose a few games and them play my more favorite metagame than 8 jumpsnipers vs 8 jumpsnipers.If some1 rly enjoy that then let them be.


Anyway some1 know which types of Blackjacks we will get?

[Zerberus]

JudgeDeathCZ, on 05 May 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

My 733C have exactly same firepower as my D-DC(AC20,3xSRM6,2xMlas).
And about jumpjeting.Do you know your ELO is rly high?You will meet 8 jumpsnipers in opposite team

This of course assumes that your Elo is really high to begin with.

I have no Idea where my Elo score is, nor do I care. But what I do know is that I play against Garth and Koreanese 2-3 times a day (2 players who I would assume many agree probably have a pretty high Elo) during my sessions, and rarely if ever encounter more than 3 jumpsnipers on any given team....

[Monsoon]

Confirmed by Bryan on his twitter page, May 21st will be bring us the ability to do screen-shots. No more Ctrl+Print Screen and pasting to Paint!

[Arcturious]

Yes, the space shuttle analogy doesn't really work as it doesn't have a huge computer controlled gyroscope with a human neural interface to control it.

Basically I'm just worried that the devs might cave to the pressure and implement a bad decision. In all my games there might be only 2-3 "poptarts" and nobody cares. They just get on with it and play the game.

Like all other metas, it will pass. They have already said they are retuning weapon dps, heat balancing PPC's and fixing LRM's. Any one of those upcoming changes can / will remove a lot of the supposed issue. They are all also purely tweaks to established game systems.

Anyone with even basic understanding of scientific theory will tell you too many changes close together will ruin your analysis. Something like JJ shake adds a completely new variable to the equation. While this can be a good thing (ECM), in this instance my personal thoughts are it could have a significant negative impact.

[Deathlike]

NARC suddenly negates ECM (will be part of tomorrow's patch):
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2327569

At least one thing is true.. the good members of PGI (Thomas and many others) are still up at this hour sleepless from the whining we give them....

Edited by Deathlike, 06 May 2013 - 11:27 PM.

[Deathlike]

Addressing "Drop to Mechlab bugs":
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2327089