187 replies to this topic

[HRR Insanity]

JohanssenJr, on 10 March 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

Ive probably said this 100 times now. Heat. You don't need to adjust heat on the weapons, or recycle time, or mess with the armor. TT had a set heat thresh hold that was the same across the board for all mechs. Adding heat sinks did not increase the heat threshold, it simply dissipated heat faster. Which is how a Jenner with only 4 ML/SRM4 with 14 SHS was balanced against an Awesome with 3 PPC/SL that had 28 SHS.

The threshold was low enough that even a 4 PPC stalker would instantly overheat and shut down. But it would cool off quickly.

Heat is THE balancing factor in this IP.

As far as the length of battles, a TT match was still only around 2 to 3 minutes of combat. So MWO is pretty much right on the money. It has about 2 minutes of manuever, 3-4 minutes of brawl, and 1-2 minutes of mop up.

Please explain how heat balances a 3 Gauss 'Mech. 3 shots from that, you're dead. No heat required.

[Damocles69]

no... just....no

[Terror Teddy]

HRR Insanity, on 10 March 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

Please explain how heat balances a 3 Gauss 'Mech. 3 shots from that, you're dead. No heat required.

That mech is balanced by having 45 tonnes of 3 guns, little ammo and weapons that breaks when people sneeze around him.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

HRR Insanity, on 10 March 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

Please explain how heat balances a 3 Gauss 'Mech. 3 shots from that, you're dead. No heat required.

Heat isn't needed there. The fact he has 3 gauss rifles means: Paper thin armor and a small engine.

Glass Cannon Ilya

If you consider that a viable build, I don't want you building mechs for me.

[Commander Kobold]

MadSavage, on 09 March 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

No...just no. If anything they NEED TO HALF THE ARMOR.

No, that is all..

[IraqiWalker]

Treckin, on 09 March 2013 - 07:28 AM, said:

I agree, I think that battles are a bit too short atm.

Much of this appears to be due to changes in netcode and the fact that the devs are incompetent.

Given that, I doubt we will see some meaningful increase to the combat engagement length. They're too busy milking P2W schemes to notice the rest of their "game" is broken/not fun.

You can't really say that there is P2W in this game. Unlike most games where you can pay to win there is no skill involved, just stats that you can up with cash. Here a pilot that has used ZERO MCs can beat someone that has poured thousands of dollars into MWO just by virtue of skill alone.

You can Pay to Get Flair in this game. Last I checked, flair does not make you bullet proof. Otherwise I wouldn't have had a few Pretty Baby, X-5, Death's Knell, and Flame kills with my mechs that I bought with C-Bills.

[Rhent]

A PPC = A ML due to doubling of armor. Lets quadrouple armor and make a PPC = a Small Laser.

Your post is a very bad idea for game play.

[xenoglyph]

Increasing speed caps & relaxing engine restrictions would go a long ways towards improving this IMO. Although people could start engagements faster they could break them off easier, too.

Making fights more mobile would bring back some of the awesomeness of early closed beta.

Edited by xenoglyph, 14 March 2013 - 10:59 PM.

[Alilua]

I disagree on armor, but I think we need a boost to skeleton hp. This would allow critical seeking weapons such as machine guns a chance to shine as well as allowing the mechs to exist in a damaged state. Currently once the armor is gone the mechs don't last more than a minute. Giving us a boost to the base structure health should result in more battle damaged mechs slugging it out.

This also gives us more of a atmospheric feeling of being in a death machine rather than a paper bag covered in armor and guns.


Increasing the base/structural hp will allow a greater emphasis on tactical shooting and aiming while allowing some slack in a lack of communication.

More chances ammo will cook off
More chances weapons will be destroyed before a mech is
Greater need for case to be equipped.
Allows for performance decrease as damage is sustained


I do not see any reason why this should not be implemented other than it might stress piloting more and a slight ammo/ton imbalance could occur.

[Eddrick]

Atleast you are looking at the problem with more then just one idea.

I think changing weapon convergence so not all weapons will hit the same spot all the time would go a long way.

[Terror Teddy]

Yes, lets triple it, or why not quadruple it and everyone can use MG's

[Rocket Puppy]

Once upon a time MWO had normal Armor and games were very short and often unpleasant due to cheezy alpha builds.

Double armor has lead to prolonged long distance battles and viability of short-range mechs.

I don't agree with every decision PGI has made, but double armor was a good one.

They did a great job trying to stay true to the table top but TT rules don't hold up the real time battles.

Players can aim in real time and are not rolling die to do hit damage.

Double armor feels pretty good and sounds better than halving weapon damage, there still needs to be some long-term balancing tweaks but the game is 95%+ on its way to being very well balanced in the weapon damage vs weight department.

I think ballistics and lasers are at a very good spot, it is missiles that need some fine tuning.

[IraqiWalker]

Rocket Puppy, on 14 March 2013 - 11:04 PM, said:

I think ballistics and lasers are at a very good spot, it is missiles that need some fine tuning.

One thing they are trying to fix is the splash damage from missiles, which is currently glitchy and has been shown to be doing significantly more than intended damage. Such as SRMs dealing 50+ damage to a commando instead of the intended 2.5 + splash because of how splash is currently calculated. Once they fix that, all of this will balance out and normalize.

[dario03]

I think double might be a bit much but I wouldn't mind if it was increased. I like how you don't usually get one shotted or can one shot somebody because it makes this game a bit more different than other fps games. Just about every other fps game out there lets you take each other very quickly.

[shabowie]

Doubling armor again is possibly the worst idea ever, it is already hard to attack two people from behind and kill one of them before they can respond effectively. This would dilute individual skill too much and reward stupid play.

[Ragashar]

Doubling armor now would be quite a bad idea. Now, if you're in an Light and come up with an Assault or Heavy mech, you got a shot. If the armor advantage of the heavier mechs is doubled, you got no shot or have get really creative to beat those odds.

Take World of Tanks for example... The fights between Tank classes 1-3 are quite fun and competetive, but once you get to that class 4 tank, you suddenly end up going against class 6-7 tanks. And at that point you can do maybe 2-3% damage to them in one shot and they can one shot you almost all of them. Needless to say didn't give it much more time after I saw that awfulness in it. It was just a horrible wake up call on that game.

I really don't want to see any of that in MWO! And this game is not twitchy, even in brawls with the cooldowns and the heat, you really do have to watch your shooting and not just mash all the buttons at the same time... I know it is different from your run-of-the-mill FPS, but this is MechWarrior, not Battlefield 3 nor Call of Duty 26.

Sure you can do some weird builds, but it isn't like we see only Gauss Snipers in this game...

Edited by Ragashar, 14 March 2013 - 11:40 PM.

[SmokinDave73]

I think brawls are defenitly ending faster nowthen 3 months ago, the OP states some very valid points once ballistics and ppc's get their state rewinds people will start getting 1 shot. I already can 2 shot heavys and mediums with my sniper mechs and thats on 290 ping so I am hoping the dev's will pay attention to idea's like this because mechwarrior is not your typical COD and I hope it never becomes like that. Whilst playing MWO I want to feel like im in a 50 to 100 ton mech made of hard endo steel not out of paper.

Edited by SmokinDave73, 15 March 2013 - 12:07 AM.

[Dreamslave]

It is very obvious that the fights are getting quicker, any sane person wouldn't deny that. Having said that, I am not entirely sure doubling armor is the correct route to take to curb the twitch factor that has inched its way into this game, but something most certainly needs to be done to *** this in the butt before it becomes a worse looking Hawken.

[Teralitha]

Adridos, on 09 March 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

"Those who don't know the past are condemned to repeat it" - George Santayana

Have you ever seen MW4? Yes? And have you seen a viable light in that game? Yes? Then you had a phenomenom called daydreaming, since lights were completely and utterly useless. So were mediums and even some heavies.
That alone is a really damn good reason not to do it again.

whoa whoa whoa, I think you were playin a whole different game there buddy. I cant even begin to count the number of times I have defeated assaults and heavies(even several in a single match) while driving a light or medium in MW4. DONT EVEN say some ********* like that. It is true that lights and mediums could die fast, but any mech in MW4 could die fast. Even assaults. I would even say that MW4 mechs were a bit more durable than MWO mechs due to the fact that a dead side torso still left the arm in tact and a good players could still use the arm as a shield to take more punishment.

The MW4 raven was even deadlier than the current raven 3L we have here in expert hands. It was WAY more agile, and single weapon systems were far more effective so a light mech could do serious damage. For example, I drove a raven in MW4 that carried a large xpluse laser and an LRM 15, and with just that, I had opponants making such comments as... 'damn that raven nearly killed our whole team by himself!" A MW4 raven, really would decimate a whole team by itself here the way this game is designed.

Anyway... simply put, you are full of crap.

As for the topic, I think a big reason why mechs die too quickly here is because mechs are slow and have poor agility compared to previous mechwarrior titles, making them much easier targets. I have suggested to devs to increase the speed and agility of all mechs across the board here, but I doubt that will happen....

Edited by Teralitha, 15 March 2013 - 12:45 AM.

[Paula Fry]

Didn't they gave all more amor allready so you mean quadroupeld or what??