181 replies to this topic

[Desist]

I like to pop out of cover right when my missiles are supposed to hit for that extra Artemis sweetness. I can afford to jump in and out of cover because of the target decay module and the fact that my trebuchet can move at 101kph.

I think LRM damage is good though, but I don't play a Stalker or Atlas D-DC boating LRM 15s or 20s. I think those boating builds are cheesy and require proper team comp, teamwork, communication, and/or lots of Raven 3Ls to get around, which I'm fine with for the most part.

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

More LRM boats on the other team means less brawlers on the other team. If the pubbies want to sit back and burn through LRM ammo, that's fine with me because we went cave and now their LRM boats are about to learn the hard way that SRM>LRM.

[Davers]

Baltasar, on 11 March 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

But the assault boats can afford to do this and can get high damage numbers, because, eventually your team engages and they can fire and hit to their hearts content and have the tonnage to load up on tons of ammo so they will never run dry. They'll get more damage because their missiles are more spread out so they hit everything plus there is an endless supply. Again, the trouble isn't so much the LRMs themselves but the extreme boating that, I feel, people have trouble with. However, as I have stated before, assault mechs are the creme of the crop when it comes to damage potential and should be putting up high numbers and should be feared because of that.

Well, that is quite the quandary. Assault mechs are supposed to do high damage because they have the most tonnage to load up on weapons. The easiest way to do this is by taking similar weapons so they can use as many weapons at the same time, instead of having unfired weapons. But then we get mad when those weapons are actually used effectively.

The problem is the hard point system that forces you to get the best bang out of them for your buck. Plus people are obsessed with how much damage they are doing. I guess we should just be happy this isn't TT where you would see 15 medium laser builds on custom mechs.

[Kaziganthi]

Why are you even bothering with trying to nerf lrms before the clan weaponry comes out, you think they're bad now...get used to it.

The moment Clan LRM's with NO minimum range, and half their weight are introduced the amount of "NERF LRM's" will fill the first 3 pages.

[Davers]

Kaziganthi, on 11 March 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

Why are you even bothering with trying to nerf lrms before the clan weaponry comes out, you think they're bad now...get used to it.

The moment Clan LRM's with NO minimum range, and half their weight are introduced the amount of "NERF LRM's" will fill the first 3 pages.

That's ok. No one reads past the first anyway.

[Lightfoot]

Against the test dummies on Testing Grounds LRMs really pack a punch. In game they are no better than any other weapon, they have distinct weaknesses and strengths. The Artemis effect is working fairly well, though it lacks the terrain avoidence effect. Even with line of sight on an unmoving Centurion I couldn't bring him down before he got me with lasers and ACs, and I was moving laterally at 60 kph or so.

I think players feel intimidated by LRMs, that's all. Of course they should feel that way crossing a large open space with LRMs flying around, but up close or in a city or cliffy area LRMs suck.

I'll keep testing them, using, Artemis 2x LRM15, but I am not seeing anything OP'd about them yet.

[Baltasar]

Davers, on 11 March 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

Well, that is quite the quandary. Assault mechs are supposed to do high damage because they have the most tonnage to load up on weapons. The easiest way to do this is by taking similar weapons so they can use as many weapons at the same time, instead of having unfired weapons. But then we get mad when those weapons are actually used effectively.

The problem is the hard point system that forces you to get the best bang out of them for your buck. Plus people are obsessed with how much damage they are doing. I guess we should just be happy this isn't TT where you would see 15 medium laser builds on custom mechs.

I have no problems with the assaults do major damage or the lrms the way they are currently, but I do see where the Hard point system can be an issue at times. I said as much on the A1 thread, that, with only missile hard points what are you suppose to do except load up 6 srm 6 pods on it. ECM had guaranteed you can't use streaks effectively and no energy slot for TAG makes it sub par for a serious LRM boat.

That said, I have heard (never played since this is my first mechwarrior/battle tech game) that lack of hard points caused other problems.

[Corvus Antaka]

If ECM is removed from the game, Id be fine with LRMS at 1.2-15 damage, probably 1.5 damage.

If ECM stays, LRM damage has to stay, the current balance is just fine if each team has ECM, infact LRMS can still be rendered completely useless easily with ECM.

Ideally I'd say mech3 LRMS, they hit like they do now, they track much much worse, LRM boat can aim & vector them to attempt to compensate and land hits, can be dumbfired & direct fired or arced over cover, but turn like an atlas on drugs with a standard 100 engine.

Then just scrap ECM's long range stealth shield & bubble, and everything would be fine

except people would still whine...

[Commander Kobold]

One Medic Army, on 11 March 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

Simple fix: have AMS work equally well on large volleys as small ones. Switch AMS from a targeted stream of bullets that takes out 4-5 LRMs per volley, to a shotgun blast that takes out 25-50% of each volley.
Suddenly smaller launchers are viable again at the same time AMS is useful and boats are punished.

Oh, and expand the spread so Artemis+TAG+LRM10 no longer lands 75%+ of the missiles on an atlases CT, it should be 50% max.

unless they changed it artemis doesn't stack with tag.

[One Medic Army]

Omni 13, on 11 March 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

unless they changed it artemis doesn't stack with tag.

According to PGI employee, TAG stacks with Artemis, and has done so.
NARC is the one that doesn't stack in MWO, but then nobody uses it because it's 4tons+missile hardpoint of crud.

[xRatas]

LRM boats hit real hard now. My awesome was oneshotted with and 4xLRM20 stalker head on just yesterday. It ripped of all my left torso & CT armor, destroyed left torso completely, and left CT internals dark red. Was only yellow on my armor before that hit.

Not that I didn't deserve it by shutting down on the open, but was more than a little suprised about the amount of damage I received in one salvo.

But that's just more rock/paper/scissors gameplay, LRM are still quite easy to avoid, it just punishes real fast and hard now if you forget being careful.

[Corbon Zackery]

CATAPULT CPLT-C4

14 matches

6 wins
8 losses
0.75%
7 kills
9 deaths
0.78%
3,090
8,587
01:10:52

LRM 10 14 1,570 624 39.75% 01:10:21 dmg. 1,000

LRM 15 17 3,120 1,214 38.91% 01:30:02 dmg. 2,144



So yes its overpowered yea, the dmg. needs to be lowered back to 1.5. I mean I had 7 kills in a hour of play time with a arty, tag, and 60 missiles.

So how that's not unbalanced since I'm not even a master yet with the build that with a 40% hit rato for 3,144 damage.

Edited by Corbon Zackery, 11 March 2013 - 10:49 PM.

[Corbon Zackery]

Kaziganthi, on 11 March 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

Why are you even bothering with trying to nerf lrms before the clan weaponry comes out, you think they're bad now...get used to it.

The moment Clan LRM's with NO minimum range, and half their weight are introduced the amount of "NERF LRM's" will fill the first 3 pages.

They can't even get the balance right on the IS weapons at this time it be around 3 years that Clan stuff comes out.

[xRatas]

Corbon Zackery, on 11 March 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:

So yes its overpowered yea, the dmg. needs to be lowered back to 1.5. I mean I had 7 kills in a hour of play time with a arty, tag, and 60 missiles.

So how that's not unbalanced since I'm not even a master yet with the build that with a 40% hit rato for 3,144 damage.

Do you have artemis and tag? The LRMs hit harder than most of anything when direct fired with artemis and tag. Otherwise not so hard.

[Corwin Vickers]

Lightfoot, on 11 March 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

Against the test dummies on Testing Grounds LRMs really pack a punch. In game they are no better than any other weapon, they have distinct weaknesses and strengths.

The problem is the people complaining play almost exactly like the test dummies in the testing grounds.

Corbon Zackery, on 11 March 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:

CATAPULT CPLT-C4

14 matches

6 wins
8 losses
0.75%
7 kills
9 deaths
0.78%
3,090
8,587
01:10:52

LRM 10 14 1,570 624 39.75% 01:10:21 dmg. 1,000

LRM 15 17 3,120 1,214 38.91% 01:30:02 dmg. 2,144

Those numbers don't sound all that great to me. 14 games, 3000 damage? Are you being sarcastic?



The thing that gets me is that it doesn't matter what mech I'm in, I'm going to be top 3 damage (except in some of my light mechs).

Players are OP

[Corbon Zackery]

xRatas, on 11 March 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

Do you have artemis and tag? The LRMs hit harder than most of anything when direct fired with artemis and tag. Otherwise not so hard.

The stats don't lie that's with 4 tons of arty computers, a TAG, and Beagle Probe if it does anything. On alpine I blew away a Treb. the 60 missiles over shot him turned around and hit him in the chest because he was brawling with a hunchback that I guess spotted for me its so unbalanced.

[Komtur]

When I am using LRMs I want to have 1.8 , but when I get hit by LRMs I want 1.0


When I check my Weapon stats, there is LRM 20 with 6860 fired in 27 matches and Accuracy 21.88%
This is not so much damage

Using Beagle Probe, Artemis and I think 50% shots done with free sight and 50% w/o or TAG from team members.

So for me it is much more important to play as a team and to talk about the used Mechs and weapons in one team. Mechwarrior online is a team game, so everything is ok for me and the future will bring some more interesting options for this really nice team game.

Only my 2 cent's

Edited by Komtur, 11 March 2013 - 11:20 PM.

[xRatas]

Corbon Zackery, on 11 March 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

The stats don't lie that's with 4 tons of arty computers, a TAG, and Beagle Probe if it does anything. On alpine I blew away a Treb. the 60 missiles over shot him turned around and hit him in the chest because he was brawling with a hunchback that I guess spotted for me its so unbalanced.

I, too, thought that was sarcasm. While 6 kills / hour is not excactly bad, it is far from good too. I seem to average around 10 kills per hour with most of my mechs I enjoy driving. And I've yet to hear anyone saying Dragon or Hunchback is OP.

[Calem]

Good thing I’m on a break – so many muppets LRM-whining. I cringe every time someone quotes Training Ground experience. So much blatant ignorance of facts, of math, of the actual upper-skill experience, where LRMs aren’t viable.

Fact: LRMs already deal 1.6 damage if you actually look at the statistics and divide total damage by total hits - and that's without factoring out ammo explosions!

Fact: SRM damage is way more of an issue – unlike LRM damage, you lack the time frame to walk away from it, it’s way higher, and it can be focused (hugging atlases anyone?).

Fact: An ALRM20 rack (11 tons without ammo or tag) with 33% hit rate and 1.6 pt factual damage deals an averaged 10.56 damage ALL OVER THE PLACE. It’s worse than a PPC.

Fact: Lasers got boosted by state rewind. Ballistics/PPCs will get boosted by state rewind, too. LRMs in comparison were just prettified.

I could elaborate on so many points, but really, it’d be hard to do without flaming inept pilots for being inept pilots. Friend of mine said it best, “It takes two to get damaged by LRMs”.

Edited by Calem, 12 March 2013 - 03:07 AM.

[LordDante]

aaarrrghhhh
another stupid LRM thread
LRM´s are fine
leave them allone ! comprende ?
when a 6 ppc stalker looks in ur direction will u stand still showing off ur head over a ridge ???
no ?
well, thats what i thought !
and why are u guys unable to stay in cover when an LRM BOATING SON OF A GUN FIRES IN UR DIRECTION ?
because its smart ?????

hell u even get a warning ! that ur tagged
how stupid can one be ?

im driving a wang and before the patch i allmost ignored lrms kompletly .

they are fine now, they are an aerea denial tool.
i said it before, i say it again
LRM´s brought back tactics to this game !

Edited by LordDante, 12 March 2013 - 03:43 AM.