149 replies to this topic

[Hamm3r]

Tice Daurus, on 12 March 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

For example, say our team has myself, you and 6 other PUG on the team and we all got ELO chosen with light and medium mechs somehow. Now, say one of our light mechs scouts out the other side and see's 4 Asssault mechs and 4 Heavy mechs. You would be tactically STUPID to try and take them on via weapons. Your option to win which most smart people would know is to distract the enemy, pull them as far away from base as possible and then have either 1 mech or 2 mechs split off and try to beeline it to their base to cap for the win.

The problem with that argument is that is a VERY rare if at all occurrence. In fact I have NEVER had a drop that was so lopsided. I'm not arguing the validity of a Cap win, a win is a win, but when the lights or mediums just skirt the edge of the map and cap the base in 2 mins or less, is it a win, yes good on ya, but it was a cheep way to win is all I'm saying.

[Darkfire66]

Hamm3r, on 12 March 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

...don't claim to be the king when you take the easy road.

Never said I was king. You just act like winning by capping isn't a legit tactic, when It clearly is.

[Hamm3r]

Darkfire66, on 12 March 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

Never said I was king. You just act like winning by capping isn't a legit tactic, when It clearly is.

Never denied it was, just said that under some circumstances its a cheep way out.

[Darkfire66]

Hamm3r, on 12 March 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

The problem with that argument is that is a VERY rare if at all occurrence. In fact I have NEVER had a drop that was so lopsided. I'm not arguing the validity of a Cap win, a win is a win, but when the lights or mediums just skirt the edge of the map and cap the base in 2 mins or less, is it a win, yes good on ya, but it was a cheep way to win is all I'm saying.

This happens quite a bit, actually. I have had drops where my team has 1 assault 1 heavy, 3 mediums, 3 lights, against 4 DDC, 2 CTF 3D, a K2, and 3 Jenner 3L's.

If you let mechs swing by you, without scouting, then get so out of position you can't respond, you have effectively lost the match for yourself.

[Tice Daurus]

Hamm3r, on 12 March 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

The problem with that argument is that is a VERY rare if at all occurrence. In fact I have NEVER had a drop that was so lopsided. I'm not arguing the validity of a Cap win, a win is a win, but when the lights or mediums just skirt the edge of the map and cap the base in 2 mins or less, is it a win, yes good on ya, but it was a cheep way to win is all I'm saying.

As Darkfire66 said, it does happen. You could still have an Assault class, and our team could have Awesome 8-Q's and your team could have Atlas D-DC's. Take 3 Awesomes vs. 3 Atlai and your outclassed by 60 tons by armor and weapons, even if both teams have comparatively the same skilled pilots.

And again, there is no such thing as a cheap win. I'm not attacking you personally, but to say that it's a cheap win is complete BS. If my team is tactically outgunned, then it's my job as a person who is trying to be a drop commander to recognize that and work out a different tactic to beat you. Outflank you, out manuever you, or cap your base, and no matter how I win is just that. If I use my skill or my brains to beat you, then your team got beat and that INCLUDES capping.

People who say that capping is a cheap win are people who are limited in thinking and poor sports in general. Now you may not agree with my POV on this, but it's still MY POV, and I'll stick to it. And while you can say you claim ethical and moral judgement, I'll be laughing my way to the bank with c-bills and more XP because my team won the game.

Edited by Tice Daurus, 12 March 2013 - 12:23 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Erik Hollister, on 11 March 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

Really? I mean, I only PUG (never been in a premade), so maybe I'm sheltered. I almost never see an assault match end in a cap. Maybe 5% of the time. I'll flank and put a few seconds on a base just to shake up the opposition and make them come out of their shell, but I don't see many cap wins. Wierd

Cap to win is rare as everyone is used to it. The point though is that the tactic itself is really all there is. Also as you move up Elo it gets more and more common. Assault though is about cap rushing. That's the only tactic in the game. Rush or defend.

[Hamm3r]

Tice Daurus, on 12 March 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

As Darkfire66 said, it does happen. You could still have an Assault class, and our team could have Awesome 8-Q's and your team could have Atlas D-DC's. Take 3 Awesomes vs. 3 Atlai and your outclassed by 60 tons by armor and weapons, even if both teams have comparatively the same skilled pilots.

And again, there is no such thing as a cheap win. I'm not attacking you personally, but to say that it's a cheap win is complete BS. If my team is tactically outgunned, then it's my job as a person who is trying to be a drop commander to recognize that and work out a different tactic to beat you. Outflank you, out manuever you, or cap your base, and no matter how I win is just that. If I use my skill or my brains to beat you, then your team got beat and that INCLUDES capping.

People who say that capping is a cheap win are people who are limited in thinking and poor sports in general. Now you may not agree with my POV on this, but it's still MY POV, and I'll stick to it. And while you can say you claim ethical and moral judgement, I'll be laughing my way to the bank with c-bills and more XP because my team won the game.

Please come off your high horse and go through and re-read my posts again before you go off all half cocked. I NEVER said that ALL cap wins were cheep, in fact I have defended several, and laid out several scenarios, I was referring to a specific scenario as being cheep and lazy but still a win. I'm done with this argument, later!

Edited by Hamm3r, 12 March 2013 - 12:29 PM.

[Vasces Diablo]

Base capping encourages:

Scouting
Communication
Tactile flexibility

Removing base capping encourages:

Everyone sticking in a group
Everyone to take heavy and assault mechs
Offense only tactics

[Darkfire66]

I think ultimately, that blaming others for your own tactical errors only hampers your own growth as a player.

[Tice Daurus]

Hamm3r, on 12 March 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

Please come off your high horse and go through and re-read my posts again before you go off all half cocked. I NEVER said that ALL cap wins were cheep, in fact I have defended several, and laid out several scenarios, I was referring to a specific scenario as being cheep and lazy but still a win. I'm done with this argument, later!

I read your posts. And I'm saying that ANY win via capping is not cheap. If I can get my fast mechs which are quick and nimble to quick cap your base, and you can't get mechs back in time to stop the cap, then the loss falls on your head. If you know you are all a bunch of heavies and assaults before the game starts, why not ask someone to hang back as a goalie to protect the base and warn of trouble? This way you buy time while the rest of you can swing back and crush the puny light mechs!

Again, I say ANY WIN is a GOOD WIN, no matter how you do it, including using lights to quick cap a base and if people are not smart enough to recognize their flaws in their team, whether it's a 8-man or 4-man or all PUGGING, then you deserve to lose. The difference is, while I'm not going to cry and whine about it if it happens to me, others will and those people are sad pandas. Would it suck for me if my team got capped like that? Yes. Am I going to cry about it? No, because then I would be dumb for letting it happen. That's the problem with today's generation...many of young kids today don't want to take any responsibility for their actions! Get a sack, own up to both your wins and losses and learn from them.