60 replies to this topic

[Esplodin]

Some argue that knocking out a weapon and reducing the DPS potential of an enemy mech is a worthwhile goal, and that the lights doomed to 4 ballistic hard points have to find a friend to do the heavy lifting. Fair enough. Flavor is the spice of life, and I'd take MG just for the dakka myself (as well as for the excellent agro factor to encourage the heavies to play "chase the lights into the kill zone").

That still does not change the fact that they are horrible, horrible weapons that cry themselves to sleep at night longing for some Dev lovin'. How much does knocking out weapons in a section compare to destroying the section in it's entirety, which seems to be the crux of the debate? Lets take a look!

This data is taken from the Awesome in the training grounds, aiming at the RT. This version has a PPC in that section of torso as well as a PPC in the arm. Firing for the Awesome is estimated and it is assumed to be heat neutral (haha), so that pilot can nuke a friendly with the torso PPC and arm PPC continuously. Big threat, which is why out valiant mech is targeting it! The other PPC is not taken into consideration, since that one would be firing no matter what. We are only interested in the RT section, and associated arm for crit seeking/section destruction purposes.



As this table clearly demonstrates, MG crit like a *****. That is not in question. However destroying the section is always preferable since it takes two PPCs with it (and the mech if it has an XL). Even with the CT PPC being active for longer, it does less total damage if the section is destroyed in every case. Heck, the section doesn't last long enough in most cases to step aside and give the Spider 5K a reason to exist, and that thought makes me very sad. 2 - 17 seconds of usefulness in a match per mech is not enough to be viable.

I love Machine Guns. I want them to be a real weapon system, not the crit seeking joke they are today. The ballistic Cicada, Raven, and Spider need the small laser of ballistics. Crit seeking is interesting on paper, but in real game play it is atrocious without a significant buff.

Video of above numbers:

Edited by Esplodin, 11 March 2013 - 07:09 AM.

[Captain Stiffy]

FOR THE LOVE OF **** WITH THE MACHINEGUN CRAP ALREADY

Just make them do LL damage but as a hose, like pulse lasers shoot 'faster' as lasers but have less range, just make it a light laser that's harder to aim so it won't be OP and everyone will stop bitching

[Phaesphoros]

I'll post this now for the third time. It's an overview how the engine would be destroyed (15 health vs. normal items 10 health but gauss, ac/20) if there were engine critical hits. Included is how long it would take to destroy the CT's internal structure.



Some advertisement for my suggestion xD

[Vassago Rain]

B-b-b-b-but muh precious crit-seeking illusion!

[Sifright]

Vassago Rain, on 11 March 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

B-b-b-b-but muh precious crit-seeking illusion!

I'm at work right now so i can't post the image i want to put picture a tsundere girl kicking you in the crit-seeking illusion (your balls) D;

[General Taskeen]

I will highly doubt there will ever be engine hit critical-seeking. It would create a serious unfun factor when someone managed to roll their virtual dice a bit luckier and won.

Crits on gyros to impair movement and aim perhaps.

Also, another MG Test I made:



Reiterating the Mech Warrior 3 Machine Gun

0.8 Damage Per Shot
0.625 Cool Down
200 Ammo Per Ton

Balanced by decent damage out put, coupled with a cool down, and low ammunition. Unbalanced by boating. MWO, however has hard point limitations. At most, there is only 4 Ballistic Hardpoints for any Mech now, or if a Troll Piranha were added which has 12 MG's, or a Clan Kraken which has 14 Ballistic Hardpoints.

Edited by General Taskeen, 11 March 2013 - 07:00 AM.

[Utilyan]

"That still does not change the fact that they are horrible, horrible weapons that cry themselves to sleep at night longing for some Dev lovin'."


Funniest thing I read today, LOL.


Clearly the awsome in that video is completely paralyzed in fear and anguish, Its quite obvious MGs need to be nerfed.

[Vassago Rain]

What I want to know is...

If machineguns can't damage armor because 'lol, 5.56mm boolits, brah! ANTI-INFANTRY FIREPOWER ONLY!' then...how can these tiny bullets somehow ruin an internal heatpump that's about the size of my couch, made from steel, and weighs a ton?

Just give us proper ones already. This is beyond ridiculous.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 11 March 2013 - 06:58 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

The heat pump isn't made of 11" of armor plating on top of ballistic weave, on top of ablative plating. At least that's my guess.

[Vassago Rain]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 March 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

The heat pump isn't made of 11" of armor plating on top of ballistic weave, on top of ablative plating. At least that's my guess.

I think 5.56 bullets would have a hard time doing 'crit-seeking' damage to a car, let alone a piece of military equipment. Now, 20mm boolits, or 30mm... Which is what the ******* machineguns are shooting, anyway.

It's such a farce, Joseph.

[Utilyan]

General Taskeen, on 11 March 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

I will highly doubt there will ever be engine hit critical-seeking. It would create a serious unfun factor when someone managed to roll their virtual dice a bit luckier and won.

Crits on gyros to impair movement and aim perhaps.

Also, another MG Test I made:



Reiterating the Mech Warrior 3 Machine Gun

0.8 Damage Per Shot
0.625 Cool Down
200 Ammo Per Ton

Balanced by decent damage out put, coupled with a cool down, and low ammunition. Unbalanced by boating. MWO, however has hard point limitations. At most, there is only 4 Ballistic Hardpoints for any Mech now, or if a Troll Piranha were added which has 12 MG's, or a Clan Kraken which has 14 Ballistic Hardpoints.

I think its quite clear from the video......that the machine gun instanty killed the pilot........thats why it wasn't moving............and the only reason the mech didn't appear to take much damage is because the bullets were going right through the redundant holes that pierced through the mech. Its just that it took a while for the fusion reactor to leak out and explode.


Meanwhile if you notice the laser test......the mech fell back towards the laser fire.........you have to look real closely but there is aero space fighters......a guasapult in the grassy knoll.........who all simultatiously shoot that poor mech.


Again its quite clear machineguns are just way too op.

[Joseph Mallan]

No. You would be wrong. But the MWO MG is not a 5.56 ball round... it is a 20mm+ ball round!!! Big difference.

[Critical Fumble]

Machine guns are OP because they killed me once.

And don't even get me started on the rest of the weapons.

Joseph Mallan, on 11 March 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

No. You would be wrong. But the MWO MG is not a 5.56 ball round... it is a 20mm+ ball round!!! Big difference.

Tennis ball?

Edited by Critical Fumble, 11 March 2013 - 07:19 AM.

[FupDup]

Sifright, on 11 March 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

I'm at work right now so i can't post the image i want to put picture a tsundere girl kicking you in the crit-seeking illusion (your balls) D;

He's just being sarcastic; he actually wants MGs to be good (I've seen him say it outright in some other MG threads).


EDIT: He even said it in this thread, lol:

Vassago Rain, on 11 March 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

What I want to know is...

If machineguns can't damage armor because 'lol, 5.56mm boolits, brah! ANTI-INFANTRY FIREPOWER ONLY!' then...how can these tiny bullets somehow ruin an internal heatpump that's about the size of my couch, made from steel, and weighs a ton?

Just give us proper ones already. This is beyond ridiculous.

Edited by FupDup, 11 March 2013 - 07:26 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Critical Fumble, on 11 March 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

Machine guns are OP because they killed me once.

And don't even get me started on the rest of the weapons.




Tennis ball?

No No... Golf ball

[Utilyan]

You guys should start a poll and ask.........

If the MG shot paint balls instead........... do you think it would be more dangerous?


Cuz I could imagine my windshield all covered in paint...........and i'd be like man.....that fk' paint ball raven shot my az....... that little twerp i hope a awsome steps on his chickeny chicky feet.....

[DevilJade]

I use a 4MG 1 flamer Spider. This video represents the terror and frustration enemies experience once I decide to chase them. Chaos ensues.

Also here's my stats so far on the 5k variant with 4 MG and a flamer.

Edited by DevilJade, 11 March 2013 - 08:05 AM.

[General Taskeen]

Utilyan, on 11 March 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

You guys should start a poll and ask.........

If the MG shot paint balls instead........... do you think it would be more dangerous?


Cuz I could imagine my windshield all covered in paint...........and i'd be like man.....that fk' paint ball raven shot my az....... that little twerp i hope a awsome steps on his chickeny chicky feet.....

I think all weapons in the game should have their damage divided by 50 and be made crit-seekers. Games will last hours as we try to punch through armor, so everything is a niche and useless.

MG 0.04
SL 0.06
ML 0.12
LL 0.16

for starters

DevilJade, on 11 March 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

I use a 4MG 1 flamer Spider. This video represents the terror and frustration enemies experience once I decide to chase them. Chaos ensues.

Lol, that Machine Gun couldn't even punch through the car's armor, what a terrible niche weapon that guy was using.

[FrostCollar]

DevilJade, on 11 March 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

I use a 4MG 1 flamer Spider. This video represents the terror and frustration enemies experience once I decide to chase them. Chaos ensues.

Tip: Anything a MG Spider can do, a different Spider can do better. It's like you're walking into a buffet and you see ECM on the right and more jump jets and modules on the left and you leave with some hard saltine crackers instead.

[Phoenix Gray]

Sifright, on 11 March 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

I'm at work right now so i can't post the image i want to put picture a tsundere girl kicking you in the crit-seeking illusion (your balls) D;

I don't care if my weapons can't add as long as the other mech falls down. If I need a book-keeper I'll whine to PGI to make a module for it.