148 replies to this topic

[Tie Ma]

Arete, on 12 March 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

Can't remember who it was, but there was someone who kept statistics for how much impact ECMs per team had on the outcome on a match. It was less than I had anticipated (think it was 55% win rate for the team with more ECMs), so it would need a nerf from a balancing point of view.

The real problem is, as stated so many times, that it's simply too good for it's weight. Period. Compared to any other support item, it's godlike.


I do beleive that balancing will be easier for PGI now that ELO is in though. Games should be balanced based on how the top tier players (preferably teams) play, not on everyone else. And now, PGI can easily get statistics from top tier games and see what equipment and mechs actually dominate in that tier, thereby making it easier to balance. I don't think it's a coincidence that Elo matchmaking came first, then they started looking into ECM for real.

and maybe thats why with ELO recently impemented.they have had the change of heart.

[CL_Kodiak]

Here is the real issue with how I see this whole thing. I love Mechwarrior... I played them all up to this latest edition (MW1,2,3,4 etc)

I have a deep passion for the series and I loved the fact that PGI took this on and wasn't letting it die (which we all thought was happening for years)

Ok - So now we have a shiny new game! Wonderful right?! Well I immediately became a founder early on and hit the game hard. I figured "meh beta - but I will play this and help out and soon we will have an awesome game!"

This beta killed me - It's going on forever. In the beginning I should have never got in. I got used to old systems that have been tweaked/removed. Had to get used to new systems (with old preconceived notions of what it should have been)

I decided that what I wanted to was a finished game and I was using the beta to satisfy my own Mech craving. It's a greedy act and I shouldn't have ever logged in. Seeing the unfinished game that early gave me such a bad taste in my mouth. I felt as though it was not a simulator anymore and a more keyboard/mouse action based game. I began forming opinions of this game based on unfinished systems and content and began to dislike it.

As it stands I have not logged into the game for months and I will probably keep it that way. I will log in at launch and learn the game at that point and accept it for what it is at launch.

I said all of that to say - if the OP started playing at launch rather than all these months in beta enduring change after change it would be different. ECM's, Missles and whatever else people are crying over these days will have been dealt with and balanced (hopefully)

The problem is people all got used to the gameplay as it was before ECM - so now the difference in gameplay is huge. Someone like me that hasn't logged in for months wouldn't even feel it.

Like a dog that lives its whole life outside and never feels the warmth of being in a house. The dog has no idea what the inside of the house even is, or that it is warm in there. Lots of people will come to your house and scream animal cruelty, but to the dog? he has no clue - it just normal life for him.

This game is the same.

[ciller]

There has been a commital statement by PGI that they are not finished with ECM and that it will still be worked on, tweaked, and/or changed. Don't see why people have such QQ fests during beta. Give proper feedback, let them know its not good the way it is and stop with the end of days doom calling.

[Sears]

They were probably just waiting on state rewind to see if that would lessen the requirement on lock on weapons for taking on lights. Probably why you're seeing the feedback thread now.

[Tie Ma]

Kodiak Steiner, on 12 March 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

The problem is people all got used to the gameplay as it was before ECM - so now the difference in gameplay is huge. Someone like me that hasn't logged in for months wouldn't even feel it.

Like a dog that lives its whole life outside and never feels the warmth of being in a house. The dog has no idea what the inside of the house even is, or that it is warm in there. Lots of people will come to your house and scream animal cruelty, but to the dog? he has no clue - it just normal life for him.

This game is the same.

by that logic nothing is ever OP. LRMs that do 3 damage per missile will simply be a change. Not sure if a person who hasnt played in motnhs can say anything about ECM balance.

Edited by Tie Ma, 12 March 2013 - 06:32 AM.

[Sifright]

Tie Ma, on 12 March 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

by that logic nothing is ever OP. LRMs that do 3 damage per missile will simply be a change.

I can haz 10 damage SRM missile now plz? only small change to make just one config number!

[MaddMaxx]

Yoseful Mallad, on 12 March 2013 - 05:48 AM, said:

he is handling it, he's going to try other games until this game is fixed. Or he finds another game that is better than this one. But at his point, there are many games a lot better than this one. So I don't blame him for stepping away from time to time.

Nor does anyone who agrees with him. It is that he needs to tell us, over and over and over, and yet never follows through. His anguish is felt, but it is unfair he doesn't have the spine to actually just leave already.

Is he hoping that somehow his plea will carry more weight when he adds a "claim he will never carry out"?

Edited by MaddMaxx, 12 March 2013 - 06:34 AM.

[Ransack]

CapperDeluxe, on 12 March 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

its coming

http://mwomercs.com/...-matter-of-ecm/

That's what I thought in January when this http://mwomercs.com/...87#entry1750287 was posted. Now they put up a post asking for feedback. All that post will do is rehash what has been told to them since December.

Livewyr, I feel your frustration, I really do.

[Buffalo Six]

my private fear on the ECM issue is that what we are actually using is the ECM that will end up on the clan mechs when they come out. At that point we IS players will get a neutered/bastardized form of ECM and they wil lsay see we "fixed" it for you

[Sifright]

Buffalo Six, on 12 March 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

my private fear on the ECM issue is that what we are actually using is the ECM that will end up on the clan mechs when they come out. At that point we IS players will get a neutered/bastardized form of ECM and they wil lsay see we "fixed" it for you

that would be a major faux pas considering the whole Zelbreigen thing.

[Sayyid]

ciller, on 12 March 2013 - 06:28 AM, said:

There has been a commital statement by PGI that they are not finished with ECM and that it will still be worked on, tweaked, and/or changed. Don't see why people have such QQ fests during beta. Give proper feedback, let them know its not good the way it is and stop with the end of days doom calling.

The problem is in 4 months this game will have been in beta for a year.

[IceCase88]

Who cares? I mean, really. Who cares that you are thinking about quitting? Your multiple threads about ECM being broken, and the few others who post multiple threads, just prove you are a vocal minority. The polls do not show everyone thinks ECM is broken unless you are counting the responses that only say "Yes ECM is fine." I am sorry you cannot adapt to the game environment and incapable of learning to play. A public declaration is really unnecessary. Should these really be placed in the general discussion section of the forums? Also... isn't there a section of the forums to discuss balancing issues. Send the trolls to the dungeon.

Edited by IceCase88, 12 March 2013 - 06:57 AM.

[Chavette]

About your suggestion, why do you need a wall of text, to get a simple point across?

If the suggestion involves numbers, namely seconds and meters, you can bet your *** they wont put your numbers in unchanged. So why bother? Just write "lock time grows in proportion to range", and BAM you saved 10 rows of your text.

And why does everyone want to introduce these incredibly complex balancing mechanisms, when it can be done by simplifying the current one? The learning curves for first time players is already unfriendly, complimented by the non existant tutorial or hover/load screen-tips, but no, add another 20 rules/caveats to the game, just to nerf something, because its so original... so a year from now, you'll have to read a 200 page book to play this game.

Edited by Chavette, 12 March 2013 - 06:48 AM.

[Felbombling]

Mongoose Trueborn, on 12 March 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

Good player = Make whatever mechanics in the game work.
Bad player = Complain about how the mechanics are broken.

What about the player who has the forethought to understand that a game mechanic is broken, despite how it will impact their game?

If anything, I read into the OP that a level of frustration has been reached where he cannot fathom how the game designer brought this piece of equipment into the game thinking it was in balance. Now, after weeks of play and reading all the feedback from the player base, they have come to the conclusion that it needs to be tweaked. ECM has next to zero impact on my Mech of choice, but I took one look at the write up of the equipment and knew instantly how game breaking it was.

I just hope that the game designer has a vision for the end product that, right now, seems to be a painful process to get to with the piece by piece introduction of equipment.

[Thuzel]

Itkovian, on 12 March 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

That said, there is a nice new ECM feedback thread near the top of this forum. Give your feedback.

I hate to be that guy, but why??? ECM was implemented some 4 months ago and they've had enough negative and constructive feedback to choke a donkey. Honestly, it's mind boggling that we've gotten this far without a really significant change (Btw, the "PPC fix" isn't a significant change). If they haven't gotten the message by now, then why waste your time?

[Eric darkstar Marr]

Sifright, on 12 March 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

I heard the existence of soft counters to a hard counter makes the hard counter not over powered (I loled)

Presumably you would be cool with soft counters for lazers like a laser absorbing smoke screen?

I would ask how high or stupid you are but I am in a good mood today.

A counter is a counter is a counter. ECM has 1 hard counter ECM, Tag makes it easy to hit form afar and PPC makes it easy to keep chained down. I am sorry if you do not have the brain power or skills to understand the basics of locking down and killing the most annoying thing on the field.

[Penance]

I'm taking a nice extended break too.

[Thuzel]

IceCase88, on 12 March 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

Who cares? I mean, really. Who cares that you are thinking about quitting? Your multiple threads about ECM being broken, and the few others who post multiple threads, just prove you are a vocal minority. The polls do not show everyone thinks ECM is broken unless you are counting the responses that only say "Yes ECM is fine." I am sorry you cannot adapt to the game environment and incapable of learning to play. A public declaration is really unnecessary.

Be glad that he cares enough to write it down. Most of the rest of us don't anymore...

If there's one thing that will hurt MWO, it isn't any kind of technical issue, it's apathy, and a whole lot of people are well on our way.

[Shismar]

It is called burnout. Supposedly broken game mechanics and other perceived short comings are just an excuse players find for being done with a game.

Developers can counter this to some extent by good communication, strong community features and a good pace of new content. Fixing issues and tweaking systems frequently does not hurt either.

In the case of MWO, development is slow as molasses and communication sporadic and unsatisfying. There are no ingame community features such as merc corps (a.k.a guilds or clans) and chat channels. Not to mention much they could do beyond 8vs8 matches.

I just log in every few days, often after a patch (much to rare), and play a couple matches for fun. Since premium time ran out, I knew what I would get when I started it, there is no pressure. Maybe there will be new features or content that will revive my interest in the future, maybe not. So be it, there are many games I enjoy playing.

[Moriquendi86]

Tie Ma, on 12 March 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

You clearly haven't seen many of the polls here.

Livewyr was a person like you. maybe you should take a step back and actually look at ECM. Maybe you'll come to the same conclusion most players have.

Polls alone doesn't prove anything as long we don't see any that will represent opinion of entire player base. What you do here is just a manipulation. Yes some part of community is unhappy with current ECM implementation but why automatically assume it's MOST of people? You just want to make YOUR claim sound much more valuable by becoming self proclaimed representant of large group of people.

And to make myself clear, I'm not even saying that ECM is good or bad and I'm always open for improvements. Only thing I'm against are made up claims that your opinion is representative for whole community.

Edited by Moriquendi86, 12 March 2013 - 06:52 AM.