96 replies to this topic

[Abrissbirne]

There are no obsolete mechs. Every one is useful (and be it only for target practice).

[Malsumis]

3rdworld, on 12 March 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

I dislike the dragon cause the Catapult can do everything better.

The only thing the dragon has on a catapult is speed, but when it goes that fast it is outgunned by mediums which makes it worthless.

Not much tougher than a hunchback but with some of the worst hitboxes in the game. and likely not carrying enough firepower to be of major concern.

I beg to differ on this. The Catapult has a huge head hitbox that can be hit very easliy. I also don't know of any Catapults that can mount 4 LL's and a SSRM2 fully armored running 89 Kph (speed tweak). I've gotten many hud shots on Catapults and never once been hud shot in my Dragons.

Another great thing about the Dragon is that many underestimate them and see them as easy targets. So many pilots will forgo tactics and just come straight at a Dragon. I love when they do this!

[CDLord HHGD]

Needs a "None of the Above" selection. Flawed poll.....

[John MatriX82]

Dragons aren't obsolete, they are just a tad difficult to master properly.. they aren't an easy mech for sure.

More than obsolete mechs I'd speak of useless or nearly-useless variants.. In my books they are Cicada 3C, Spider 5K, Non-3L ravens.

Then to a lesser extent the DRG 5N and FANG (I love 1N and 1C but 5N is nearly useless, FANG doesn't add anything that a Flame or other DRGs can do), most of the Awesomes besides the 9M (you can do the same things with the Stalkers with a totally different survivability), Atlas K.

I may add in also CTF-4X and CTPL-C4, but both still have a certain degree of usability, besides that Ilya places the 4X in the trash (at least for me that I've got the hero) and the C4 doesn't appeal me.

[Spinning Burr]

Every mech is useless to somebody according to this poll. Interesting.

[GT Hawk]

I find it interesting that some of my favorite mechs are higher on the list. Ie Dragon, Cent and to a lesser extent Hunchbacks. Cent and hunch is mostly because people just don't understand medium mechs is my guess so I can let that go. I would consider myself a medium /fast heavy mech pilot. Dragon being a fast heavy of course I have found some fun builds that I honestly have been having relay fun success with. But I will also note I have been know to take mechs that most never like/use and excel at them.

Great example is my uzi in mw4. thin armor overall but the thing was one of the fastest turning mechs and running 95 could be quite fun. toss in 2 lbx10 (they where good in mw4) and 6 / 4 ml (depending if clan or is equipment) and this was deadly mech in my hands. Most would laugh at the idea of a brawling uzi (hell one on this forum bashed me for even thinking a uzi could brawl yet I did it VERY successively) but it like all mechs (not saying all variants as some just SUCK) can be made to work.

And that's the same with the dragon, it can be made to be a fun toy. My 1c has a erppc, 3ml's and a srm6 pack. Not the most punishing damage but runs 80 with a standard engine and that's before speed teak. I can help sniper the enemy, fast enough to cap and enough close in damage to whoop lights. So if used correctly it can be a blast. Can I just run into a brawling fest with this mech, HELL NO. But can I take pot shots at a brawl and pick out a target who is broken away form the mass and take them out, dam right I can.

[3rdworld]

Malsumis, on 13 March 2013 - 03:55 AM, said:

I beg to differ on this. The Catapult has a huge head hitbox that can be hit very easliy. I also don't know of any Catapults that can mount 4 LL's and a SSRM2 fully armored running 89 Kph (speed tweak). I've gotten many hud shots on Catapults and never once been hud shot in my Dragons.

Another great thing about the Dragon is that many underestimate them and see them as easy targets. So many pilots will forgo tactics and just come straight at a Dragon. I love when they do this!

A cat can't but I can do it in a 4SP no problem (actually about 1 kph faster and 2 SSRMs) so actually the hunch has you out gunned. Thus the point. Your dragon caries no more firepower than a hunchback, while having the easiest CT hitbox in the game

It is true no cat can run 89, but they can run 86. No cat can run 4 LL and a Streak, but that same cat running 86 can cary 4 PPCs or 4 LPL with no issues.

I love the part where you discount the Cat for the head hitbox (which anyone with a brain knows how to avoid getting headshot in a catapult) but ignore the fact that the cat has the best torso twist in the game, and the dragon probably has the largest CT hitbox in the game

Even you example of super awesome dragon is outclasses by mechs above its weight and below its weight. ie it is a terrible chassis.

It isn't that I hate dragons or something, I actually own 3 and have them mastered. But I know the chassis is obsolete. Fun as it may be, there is always a better option than running a dragon.

Edited by 3rdworld, 13 March 2013 - 07:11 AM.

[Malsumis]

3rdworld, on 13 March 2013 - 07:06 AM, said:

A cat can't but I can do it in a 4SP no problem (actually about 1 kph faster and 2 SSRMs) so actually the hunch has you out gunned. Thus the point. Your dragon caries no more firepower than a hunchback, while having the easiest CT hitbox in the game

It is true no cat can run 89, but they can run 86. No cat can run 4 LL and a Streak, but that same cat running 86 can cary 4 PPCs or 4 LPL with no issues.

I love the part where you discount the Cat for the head hitbox (which anyone with a brain knows how to avoid getting headshot in a catapult) but ignore the fact that the cat has the best torso twist in the game, and the dragon probably has the largest CT hitbox in the game

Even you example of super awesome dragon is outclasses by mechs above its weight and below its weight. ie it is a terrible chassis.

It isn't that I hate dragons or something, I actually own 3 and have them mastered. But I know the chassis is obsolete. Fun as it may be, there is always a better option than running a dragon.

So you counter my argument that a Cat is not superior to a Dragon by using a Hunchback as an example? So you're saying and Apple is not better than an Orange because of a Banana. As for me discrediting the Cat due to its large hud hitbox, I was merely stating that a good pilot can hit the hud on a Cat pretty easliy. I know the Cat has the best torso twist, but you still eventually have to face your enemy to shoot them, unless of course you are using LRMs.

The Dragon is a hard mech to master, I agree. However, when used properly it is a VERY effective mech.

[Elandyll]

Non ECM lights, and most mediums (I include the Dragon, as much as I love my 1C, as a "Heavy" medium that is sortof obsolete in the current competitive game). Awesome scraps by the skin of its teeth, as some setups are downright devastating and thanks to the recent overhaul of PPC/ ERPPCs.
As per "can be" effective mediums (beside the go-to ECM Cicada), I would put some versions of centurions and Hunchback as well as the Flame and possibly the 1C.

Best lineups overall imo (excluding Ecm lights, fotm):
- Catapults: pretty much every single version is capable in the right hands. C1 & C4 as long range support, A1 as cheese SRM boats and K2 as ballistic/ ERPPC snipers
- Cataphracts: slightly disappinted in the 4X (because of how darn slow it is), but overall every version has something good to go for it, and the Illiya might be the single best Hero Mech period.
- Stalkers: Death on Wheels. I mean Legs.

Suprisingly, the Trebuchet seems to be becoming a favorite of many, and most of its versions seem to be workable as a fast hard hitting missile/ laser combo with jj (a light Catapult of sort).

Unfortunately, due to it being generally slow and the death warrant that entails being slow + super effective Artemis LRMs thrown in your face, the most effective Atlas is the D-DC bar none, so ... can't really recommend the entire lineup as good, but it is one outstanding Mech.

Edited by Elandyll, 13 March 2013 - 07:41 AM.

[3rdworld]

Malsumis, on 13 March 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

So you counter my argument that a Cat is not superior to a Dragon by using a Hunchback as an example? So you're saying and Apple is not better than an Orange because of a Banana. As for me discrediting the Cat due to its large hud hitbox, I was merely stating that a good pilot can hit the hud on a Cat pretty easliy. I know the Cat has the best torso twist, but you still eventually have to face your enemy to shoot them, unless of course you are using LRMs.

The Dragon is a hard mech to master, I agree. However, when used properly it is a VERY effective mech.

No I countered your "no cat could do this because of hardpoints" by giving you 2 loadouts that are about the same speed that and more dangerous than your dragon and a hunchback that is the same speed and more damaging than your dragon. Thus obsolescence.

And I could carry 5 LL and run 86 with a catapract. So other than simply giving a loadout which I cannot replicate by other heavies because of a single Streak, I could match you in firepower and speed with a Catapult, Cataphract, and Hunchback.

That is why the chassis is not any good.

[Tabrias07]

I'd say Cicada's due to their weight class (though that doesn't seem to matter anymore)

And dragon's. They're just awful.

The most useless mech hasn't even been released yet though, the Flea.
EDIT: unless MASC actually works.

Edited by Tabrias07, 13 March 2013 - 07:41 AM.

[John MatriX82]

Elandyll, on 13 March 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

Non ECM lights, and most mediums (I include the Dragon, as much as I love my 1C, as a "Heavy" medium that is sortof obsolete in the current competitive game). Awesome scraps by the skin of its teeth, as some setups are downright devastating and thanks to the recent overhaul of PPC/ ERPPCs.

Dragons can effectively be considered bigger mediums; in a competitive ambient where you bring in locked formations (I mean the classic 2-2-2-2 or combo of them), then I'm the first to tell you that a Cataphract or a Catapult are better (when the Orion will come, everyone will shift on it imho).. but when you use Dragons to fill the role of the mediums (and go around without mediums).. oh they are absolutely, utterly devastating in the right hands.

[Jimmy Page]

I think the spiders are great for causing confusion on the battlefield. The game is not set up to reward them for capping and causing a disturbance.

[Xendojo]

I voted spider.

I see a lot of people mentioning ravens that are not the 3L.

While the 2X is only a stepping stone sure, the 4X has value as the only raven with JJ. I personally take my 4X out WAY more than my 3L. And i do better in it too.

[xhrit]

FrostCollar, on 12 March 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

Specifically I'd like to point to the non-3L Ravens as useless.

A mech is only as useless as it's pilot.

[FrostCollar]

xhrit, on 13 March 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

A mech is only as useless as it's pilot.

[big 'ol picture]

Anything that can be done by a Raven 2X can be done better by a Jenner or a Raven 3L.
Though the Raven 4X is capable of some unique builds, it has to sacrifice so much to fill those ballistic slots without using useless MGs that it is generally not viable.
The question is not whether it is ever possible to do well in the other Ravens. Instead, it's whether doing well in the other Ravens is as easy as in other chassis. The answer is usually no.

I am interested in what build you used in that game, however.

[Noobzorz]

I see an awful lot more Spiders than I do Dragons.

[Uzi Foo]

My vote goes to Trebuchet they are so easy to kill. I mostly pilot a 4SP, or D-DC depending on how I feel. My 4SP has a way higher K/D ratio than my D-DC, it's exactly 6.00 at the moment on the 4SP, and 2.5 on the D-DC.

Edited by Uzi Foo, 13 March 2013 - 09:07 AM.

[Skaroth]

Dreamslave, on 12 March 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

Awesome, Dragon and Hunchback currently, for sure. All three are completely overshadowed.

I kick 4$$ in all three of these chassises. I know it took me a while to figure out the role of each of these but once I did they are absolute assassins for me. In fact these are my favorite chassises at the moment.

[Vincent Lynch]

none are useless.
There are a few useless chassis, but each Mech has it least two chassis which are good.